Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

pc7

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting case in a family of one of my wife's old work mates

1 year old baby got symptoms and was tested and found positive for covid. Child was ill with cough and temp for a few days but recovered grand.
No one in the family tested positive. There were no cases in the creche and no one in the creche tested positive due to contact tracing. The older sibling was in preschool and there have been no recorded cases there. One of the parents WFH full time and the other part time, but there have been no cases in their work either. The family do nearly all their shopping online and have not had any visitors or visiting anyone. They are perplexed as to how the baby caught it

Very similar issue a few months back in my friends creche, child in class about 1 1/2 got it but no one else in creche or their home had it.

Kids that age have their hands and god knows what else (shoes even) in their mouths, just great they didn't spread it.

shtpEdthePlum

is_that_so wrote: »

It's also true there is outrage under every stone if you go looking for it. Our date with the needle will come when it does. Until then it's far better to celebrate people getting their shots because it helps us all. Has this relative been asked to do any work for the HSE in any capacity?

No, since his second jab he has gone abroad to the holiday home with his also illicitly vaccinated wife to celebrate.

RebelButtMunch

prunudo wrote: »

Equivalent to us getting approx 1200 cases in a day.
Not denying India aren't in good shape at the moment but they have a massive population so it stands to reason they'll have case numbers which on the face of it sound high.

I absolutely wouldn't trust the numbers coming out of there.

A colleague of mine is there now. Caught covid, went to hospital and was sent home again because there are no beds left in the hospital.

arccosh

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting case in a family of one of my wife's old work mates

1 year old baby got symptoms and was tested and found positive for covid. Child was ill with cough and temp for a few days but recovered grand.
No one in the family tested positive. There were no cases in the creche and no one in the creche tested positive due to contact tracing. The older sibling was in preschool and there have been no recorded cases there. One of the parents WFH full time and the other part time, but there have been no cases in their work either. The family do nearly all their shopping online and have not had any visitors or visiting anyone. They are perplexed as to how the baby caught it

These types of cases are interesting...

More details are needed though...

What type of test was it, did they test positive more than once? (possible false positive while just so happening to be sick)

Was there someone (or someones) who were asymptomatic who caught it and passed it on? (will probably never know)

Was it a touch transmission case? (very easy with children)

pc7

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

A colleague of mine is there now. Caught covid, went to hospital and was sent home again because there are no beds left in the hospital.

That really is awful, I hope they are doing ok.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Does anyone have a good summation of where we are with regard variants.

I've been trying to cut down the covid news I consume so I don't read as much about about as I used to.

What variants are of concern. Why they are of concern and where they have spread.

Perhaps a variant megathread might be worth having?

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

Fomite transmission is basically impossible

No documented cases of it

Baby had a false positive is far far more likely

Covid symptoms, and a positive test, yet a false positive is the most likely explanation even though true false positives are extremely rare?

is_that_so

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Does anyone have a good summation of where we are with regard variants.

I've been trying to cut down the covid news I consume so I don't read as much about about as I used to.

What variants are of concern. Why they are of concern and where they have spread.

Perhaps a variant megathread might be worth having?

Very little new TBH apart from the Indian double mutant which seems to be little more than a VUI, otherwise it's as you were with the usual suspects.

wadacrack

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Does anyone have a good summation of where we are with regard variants.

I've been trying to cut down the covid news I consume so I don't read as much about about as I used to.

What variants are of concern. Why they are of concern and where they have spread.

Perhaps a variant megathread might be worth having?

Its becoming clear that vaccines protect against severe illness for all current variants. When countries are at about 55%-60% of the population vaccinated it appears that the virus will be under control and society can begin to live again. That is what all evidence currently indicates. important to remember that. Brazil and India examples of handling this pandemic in the worst way possible.

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

Yes

The likelihood of a toddler crawling into a puddle of covid and actually getting infected and then infecting no one is far less likely than a false positive

Its almost laughable to believe it tbh

I would suggest more plausible scenario is that as the evidence on transmission is that small children are less likely to pass on the virus, the lack of transmission is not that unusual. It is also likely that up to 15% of the population have had the virus, so the parents may well have resistance without knowing it. A forgotten or brief contact is the likely source. The 2 metre 15 minute is not a catch all and the odds of catching it from a brief contact, although low, are far higher than the odds of someone with symptomatic covid testing positive when in fact they have another virus.

Munsterman12

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

My uncle retired early from HSE two years ago and he rocked up to his old office and got vaccinated in early April outside of the government schedule.

It really is who you know and screw the rest. Ireland seems to have been revealed as country full of liars and charlatans who will climb over each other to guard themselves.

Not that being vaccinated really confers any tangible benefit with the whole country closed.

That stuff happens here because there are no consequences! If there were no consequences for walking out of a shop with unpaid goods then lots of people would just walk out!

Turtwig

prunudo wrote: »

Equivalent to us getting approx 1200 cases in a day.
Not denying India aren't in good shape at the moment but they have a massive population so it stands to reason they'll have case numbers which on the face of it sound high.

It's not really. India's positivity rate is ridiculously high in places that's their case count is massively under recorded. The scary thing is we don't even know by how much. The surveillance isn't there. To be fair, even if it was, it would be an unrealistic expectation for them to have the capacity at this moment in time.

If you want to try to make a comparison you'd have to go back to a period in time when our positivity rate matched theirs and the testing criteria was similar. Then adjust for the differences in population.

As it stands cases wise neither Brazil or India can be compared with us directly. Not without some severe number crunching first.

Boggerman12

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Does anyone have a good summation of where we are with regard variants.

I've been trying to cut down the covid news I consume so I don't read as much about about as I used to.

What variants are of concern. Why they are of concern and where they have spread.

Perhaps a variant megathread might be worth having?

Tune into rte radio/tv if you want to be “educated/scared ****less about the variants.by the way whatever became of the mink variant that was going to kill us all

arccosh

exitfee wrote: »

Yes

The likelihood of a toddler crawling into a puddle of covid and actually getting infected and then infecting no one is far less likely than a false positive

Its almost laughable to believe it tbh

funny you use such an example, as there is a case study from China which linked untreated sewage to a cluster of 8 people becoming infected with Covid ... where that basically happened (albeit worse case scenario).


there's been numerous cases of single family members testing positive, and no one else testing positive... situations vary greatly from
-symptoms person has while contagious
-cleaning regime in living quarters
-immune response of everyone

The next thing I was going to suggest, which is a bit grim, is that everyone had it, and cleared it from their system before the baby started displaying symptoms, which could be an indication of a weak/compromised immune system (although someone that young will always have a slightly more exaggerated immune response to things they pick up)


although fomite transmission is difficult to prove, to disregard it completely is just plain reckless... almost every study I've read has a caveat in it of something like

"although fomite transmission was probably superseded by aerosol transmission, had hygiene measures not been up to the standard they were at, it would be a more prevalent transmission vector"...

i.e. it's only not more prevalent because people are being more hygienic.

Martina1991

exitfee wrote: »

Yes

The likelihood of a toddler crawling into a puddle of covid and actually getting infected and then infecting no one is far less likely than a false positive

Its almost laughable to believe it tbh

A baby with an underdeveloped immune system, having classic Covid symptoms and testing positive is highly likely to be a true positive.

techdiver

fits wrote: »

Is this still happening? All therapists in my area are back at their primary posts. It’s all being reorganised at the moment though so everything is up in a heap for that reason.

We only got a call from the early intervention team yesterday to arrange a clinical diagnosis of our child with ASD. Would have been absolutely no use to us now as all school applications for ASD places have been filled. We are lucky that we were able to go private to get the diagnosis. We still don't have a school place but that is a separate story.

My wife was talking to the psychologist yesterday and she said they are only starting back now after being doing covid swabbing for the best part of the last year. There are probably regional variations but it's an absolute joke that these people were doing swabs in the first place. Yes, at they start last year when everything was up in the air it was understandable but 12 months later is a disgrace and typical of HSE mismanagement.

Apply the same situation to other parts of the health service and you'll see why other service were curtailed as staff were probably reassigned (unnecessarily) to covid services.

prunudo

Its very easy to say 'oh but India aren't catching all their cases' but either have we. Yes our testing is better, but remember in January we had 5 times that daily figure based on their 300k. Plus we also stopped testing close contacts as our services were so overwhelmed.

As I said, I know India are in a bad way but considering we had 2000 in hospital in January, we weren't in a great place ourselves a few months back. They are just the latest country that is on brink of collapse which we've seen throughout the last 14 months.

lawred2

exitfee wrote: »

To those who think we are at the endgame, this is the future of the pandemic, no question.

Wealthy countries will be vaccinating in vain trying to erradifcate the disease, while it rages on in developing countries for years and will be so wild spread in those filthy places it will move onto to animals and back.

charming

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

Getting it from fomite transmission ie a shoe, as one poster suggested is the laughable bit I was alluding to.

If the baby is a true positive then baby had to have been in contact with an infected person or room that had covid in the air, fomite transmission doesn't happen with Covid its all respiratory.

That is not true. Its a very minor factor, but is not non existent.

Here is what the CDC say:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/science-and-research/surface-transmission.html

People can be infected with SARS-CoV-2 through contact with surfaces. However, based on available epidemiological data and studies of environmental transmission factors, surface transmission is not the main route by which SARS-CoV-2 spreads, and the risk is considered to be low. The principal mode by which people are infected with SARS-CoV-2 is through exposure to respiratory droplets carrying infectious virus. In most situations, cleaning surfaces using soap or detergent, and not disinfecting, is enough to reduce risk. Disinfection is recommended in indoor community settings where there has been a suspected or confirmed case of COVID-19 within the last 24 hours. The risk of fomite transmission can be reduced by wearing masks consistently and correctly, practicing hand hygiene, cleaning, and taking other measures to maintain healthy facilities.

mohawk

techdiver wrote: »

We only got a call from the early intervention team yesterday to arrange a clinical diagnosis of our child with ASD. Would have been absolutely no use to us now as all school applications for ASD places have been filled. We are lucky that we were able to go private to get the diagnosis. We still don't have a school place but that is a separate story.

My wife was talking to the psychologist yesterday and she said they are only starting back now after being doing covid swabbing for the best part of the last year. There are probably regional variations but it's an absolute joke that these people were doing swabs in the first place. Yes, at they start last year when everything was up in the air it was understandable but 12 months later is a disgrace and typical of HSE mismanagement.

Apply the same situation to other parts of the health service and you'll see why other service were curtailed as staff were probably reassigned (unnecessarily) to covid services.

Well get used to it. In the aftermath of the crash. If anyone on the early intervention team that went on maternity leave or left wasn’t replaced ( this is a big deal when vast majority of staff are female). From talking to people working in it the numbers of staff have never recovered. HSE couldn’t give a toss about early intervention. So short sighted as it could mean the difference between a child who can go on and have a relatively normal life or them being dependent on the state as adults. It’s very wrong that the HSE sacrificed the futures of children. There was plenty of time to train up other people to swab.

PS it does happen to many parents that HSE or schools reject private diagnosis. No harm in also having the HSE diagnosis too.

arccosh

exitfee wrote: »

fomite transmission doesn't happen with Covid its all respiratory.

You need to brush up on your knowledge about it

DaSilva

Its very possible the child and a parent were both exposed to the virus at some point but only the child became infected. Exposure != infection. And not all people who become infected end up transmitting it. Infection != transmission.

wes

prunudo wrote: »

Its very easy to say 'oh but India aren't catching all their cases' but either have we. Yes our testing is better, but remember in January we had 5 times that daily figure based on their 300k. Plus we also stopped testing close contacts as our services were so overwhelmed.

As I said, I know India are in a bad way but considering we had 2000 in hospital in January, we weren't in a great place ourselves a few months back. They are just the latest country that is on brink of collapse which we've seen throughout the last 14 months.

Things are so bad in India that an MP from the current ruling party couldn't get his brother a hospital bed.

I have also heard stories of bodies being burned in the street. Apartment complexes where 25% of residents are infected. People on social media begging for help, on where they can find oxygen, hospital beds etc.

Also, the government is deliberately down playing cases, with them marking covid deaths as not being from covid etc.

The situation India is very, very bad. Its not just me hearing this from twitter, but from people I work with it as well.

What is going on in India is a tragedy and imo its so bad the government needs to go to jail for what is going on.

arccosh

you're going to trigger a few deniers with a post like that

techdiver

mohawk wrote: »

Well get used to it. In the aftermath of the crash. If anyone on the early intervention team that went on maternity leave or left wasn’t replaced ( this is a big deal when vast majority of staff are female). From talking to people working in it the numbers of staff have never recovered. HSE couldn’t give a toss about early intervention. So short sighted as it could mean the difference between a child who can go on and have a relatively normal life or them being dependent on the state as adults. It’s very wrong that the HSE sacrificed the futures of children. There was plenty of time to train up other people to swab.

PS it does happen to many parents that HSE or schools reject private diagnosis. No harm in also having the HSE diagnosis too.

The private diagnosis has been no issue for us. Our applications are accepted and we are on "waiting lists" for school places. It's just a lack of places but that is a different topic.

It's just a symptom or an either or attitude to services in this country. Moving staff away from critical areas to do covid testing for over a year is a disgrace. I can't imagine how frustrating is is for parents of children who are clearly autistic but cannot even apply for a school place as they can not get access to the required diagnosis.

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

Yes completely possible but the child didn't get infected by fomites

It would have been aerosol

You are seriously digging here

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/4/20-3631_article

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33755002/

Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 can persist on surfaces, suggesting possible surface-mediated transmission of this pathogen. We found that fomites might be a substantial source of transmission risk, particularly in schools and child daycares. Combining surface cleaning and decontamination with mask wearing can help mitigate this risk.

arccosh

exitfee wrote: »

Show me then

fill your boots

https://ucd.summon.serialssolutions.com/?formids=target&lang=eng&suite=def&s.fvf%5B%5D=ContentType%2CBook+Review%2Ct&reservedids=lang%2Csuite&submitmode=&submitname=&s.q=fomites+covid&button=#!/search?ho=t&fvf=ContentType,Book%20Review,t&l=en&q=fomites%20covid

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

That proves nothing

All theory, no real world study or example has ever proven it spreads that way.

Show me someone who caught covid and prove they didn't catch it from fomites

lawred2

wes wrote: »

Things are so bad in India that an MP from the current ruling party couldn't get his brother a hospital bed.

I have also heard stories of bodies being burned in the street. Apartment complexes where 25% of residents are infected. People on social media begging for help, on where they can find oxygen, hospital beds etc.

Also, the government is deliberately down playing cases, with them marking covid deaths as not being from covid etc.

The situation India is very, very bad. Its not just me hearing this from twitter, but from people I work with it as well.

What is going on in India is a tragedy and imo its so bad the government needs to go to jail for what is going on.

:rolleyes:

Ger Roe

NSAman wrote: »

I have no problem with official record keeping. It seems extremely weird to infer todays death toll is 15, when in fact it isn’t.

I am not in any way diminishing the loss those families have suffered, but to me it seems as if this is scaremongering.

Surely figures should be clear and unambiguous.

The dept of health doesn't infer that the figures are daily counts ... the line is ' the department has been informed of x deaths with covid' and that is true. They then say how many are from previous months. They have always explained how the figures work and that they are not actual daily count cases.
It simply can't be done daily.

I gave a previous example on the thread from personal experience where a person died at home and the death was confirmed in the late night hours by an on call doctor - he basically just wrote that the person was dead when he saw them. The on call doctor never saw the deceased before, has no previous medical history of the person and can not define cause of death. That has to be done by the GP or hospital caring for the person. The on call Dr issued note has to go back to the medical history source for cause of death to be confirmed and then that form has to be presented to the registrar of deaths office for the formal issue of the death cert (currently a postal application process). It is a very strict process with far reaching legal implications and it only concludes when the actual death cert is issued by the registration office - that all takes time. It could and maybe should possibly be streamlined, but that is something that would have to be carefully considered. Bottom line is you can't have George Lee announcing death figures, before people are actually certified as being dead.

The inference of the figures being actual daily counts is made by people who do not know what data is being presented to them..... no matter how many times it is explained. It is not possible to wrap the process up in a day, or maybe even a week , or a month.... that is why there is a three month window.