EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

sydthebeat

Another thread infected by the conspiracy theory nuts I see. Can't just debate the issue for what it actually is with the "oh my god, thin end of the wedge" bullish!t

drunkmonkey

faceman wrote: »

Great news, finally recognition for the vaccines doing their job.

The seem to be even for the hesitant or people who can't get them.
'Hopes of achieving herd immunity from COVID-19 received a major boost Monday, after a new Israeli study showed that the inoculated are protecting those who can’t or won’t get vaccinated." https://www.timesofisrael.com/hope-for-herd-immunity-vaccines-shown-to-protect-israelis-who-dont-get-them/

I'm not so sure following Israel's lead on vaccine certs will work here though, Leo has always said he expects thing to open up when the at risk are vaccinated, he's saying the same thing now just added in extra freedoms, I'm going to assume he's talking about giving the elderly a break quicker.

prunudo

FileNotFound wrote: »

Sure they won't be pregnant for ever haha

Haha, fair point. I just find they throw out these ideas with no real thought for the unintended consequences, time line or how the they can be implemented in the real world. Once you start allowing exemptions they are rendered useless anyway.

is_that_so

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The seem to be even for the hesitant or people who can't get them.
'Hopes of achieving herd immunity from COVID-19 received a major boost Monday, after a new Israeli study showed that the inoculated are protecting those who can’t or won’t get vaccinated." https://www.timesofisrael.com/hope-for-herd-immunity-vaccines-shown-to-protect-israelis-who-dont-get-them/

I'm not so sure following Israel's lead on vaccine certs will work here though, Leo has always said he expects thing to open up when the at risk are vaccinated, he's saying the same thing now just added in extra freedoms, I'm going to assume he's talking about giving the elderly a break quicker.

Isn't this really the two vaccinated people being able to meet indoors?

timmyntc

sydthebeat wrote: »

Another thread infected by the conspiracy theory nuts I see. Can't just debate the issue for what it actually is with the "oh my god, thin end of the wedge" bullish!t

Half of the posts in this thread are yours - sounds like conspiracy theory nuts live rent free in your head.

Anyways, its not a good look for personal freedoms in this country when you will be excluded from society based on vaccination status.
If they bring this in before vaccination roll out is complete - discriminatory against younger people who wont have gotten a chance to get vaccinated.
If they bring it in after all have been vaccinated - whats the point?

Del2005

sydthebeat wrote: »

Excellent idea.

Works great in other countries that have already brought it in.

There is literally no downside.
Economy can open quicker, elderly and most vulnerable can get back out socially quicker....
Normality returns quicker

What about the vulnerable people who can't get a vaccine, do they have to stay locked up forever?

Herd immunity is still needed even if people are vaccinated, so letting the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated out while a large percentage isn't could see another surge affecting the people we thought were protected.

Absolute Zero

Scary to see some of the replies here. This place is more socialist with every passing year. People blindly trusting politicians like Varadkar.

I guess thats what a year of lockdown by the Government will do to people. People are seriously happy that the politicians are trying to bring in discriminatory practices against our own population?

Make them (the populace) willing to accept any incentive to regain their freedoms (They had no right to take in the first place, we are a submissive country after all). Lets hope these vaccinations have no future repercussions.

whisky_galore

PringleDemon wrote: »

Sheep :mad:

Yeah. Sheep.
Everyone's a sheep...whatevs

drunkmonkey

Snotty wrote: »

Feel like you missed the opportunity to use holocaust in that title too

You could of started it yourself, we need one on the literally no risk of Covid outside as reported in the times yesterday, feel free to get it going.

As for the title vaccine Apartheid is an issue just have a google of the two words, countries aren't normally doing it to themselves though it's against other countries and we're as guilty as the next fella for doing it.

Lurching

bucketybuck wrote: »

If we are all going to be vaccinated within a few months, then why do we need all these "vaccine passport" type measures?

Why are we implementing costly and long term measures for something that should be managed in a few months time?

Because some people will refuse the vaccine....

Benimar

Absolute Zero wrote: »

Scary to see some of the replies here. This place is more socialist with every passing year. People blindly trusting politicians like Varadkar.

I guess thats what a year of lockdown by the Government will do to people. People are seriously happy that the politicians are trying to bring in discriminatory practices against our own population?

Make them (the populace) willing to accept any incentive to regain their freedoms (They had no right to take in the first place, we are a submissive country after all). Lets hope these vaccinations have no future repercussions.

Varadkars a socialist??!!

daydorunrun

I scoffed at the boiling frog analogy being used last year. Now.........not so much.
People were laughed at and directed to the CT forum here not too long ago for things that are now being accepted as a given.

pjohnson

Vaccination is a choice.

But choices have consequences. If you decide not to get a vaccine then accept the consequences.

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

Excellent idea.

Works great in other countries that have already brought it in.

There is literally no downside.
Economy can open quicker, elderly and most vulnerable can get back out socially quicker....
Normality returns quicker

Ehm? They've told the vast majority of this population this virus doesn't affect to lock themselves up to protect the vulnerable. Now they want them to remain restricted long after the vulnerable have been vaccinated. If you want to open the economy in this way you're going to have a situation where older people are allowed to use services, staffed by younger people who themselves are not allowed to use the services.

How is that an excellent idea?

A 20 something year old offered a vaccine in July won't be considered 'fully vaccinated' by September if they get AZ. That simply is not feasible.

ebbsy

Either way :

Certain countries will not let you in without the jab

You won't be allowed to take up certain jobs without the jab (eg in a nursing home)


Like it or lump it.

bucketybuck

timmyntc wrote: »

If they bring it in after all have been vaccinated - whats the point?

Exactly. Its like bringing in mandatory quarantines 12 months after the start of the pandemic when vaccines are already starting to take hold. A day late and a dollar short as usual.

Its a nation of 5 million people, just pump the ****ing vaccines out there and the death rate will fall regardless of a few anti-vaxxers. Vaccine passports are so irrelevant to the real issue that it is just hard not to wonder about ulterior motives.

faceman

timmyntc wrote: »

Half of the posts in this thread are yours - sounds like conspiracy theory nuts live rent free in your head.

Anyways, its not a good look for personal freedoms in this country when you will be excluded from society based on vaccination status.
If they bring this in before vaccination roll out is complete - discriminatory against younger people who wont have gotten a chance to get vaccinated.
If they bring it in after all have been vaccinated - whats the point?

You can’t discriminate against people who aren’t vaccinated - it’s an EU rule. That’s why the proposed EU travel cert also includes a negative test result

sydthebeat

Del2005 wrote: »

What about the vulnerable people who can't get a vaccine, do they have to stay locked up forever?

Herd immunity is still needed even if people are vaccinated, so letting the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated out while a large percentage isn't could see another surge affecting the people we thought were protected.

Forever??

olestoepoke

sydthebeat wrote: »

Excellent idea.

Works great in other countries that have already brought it in.

There is literally no downside.
Economy can open quicker, elderly and most vulnerable can get back out socially quicker....
Normality returns quicker

Unless you are one of the people that doesn't want to be vaccinated

timmyntc

ebbsy wrote: »

Either way :

Certain countries will not let you in without the jab

You won't be allowed to take up certain jobs without the jab (eg in a nursing home)


Like it or lump it.

What countries are these?

The EU wide digital green card accepts proof of a negative covid test or antibodies (to prove you've recovered from covid) as well as vaccination status.
No country is barring travel from anyone unvaccinated

ebbsy

ebbsy wrote: »

Either way :

Certain countries will not let you in without the jab

You won't be allowed to take up certain jobs without the jab (eg in a nursing home)


Like it or lump it.

There is a huge difference between a vaccine being a requirement to travel and a vaccine being a requirement to take part in society.

sydthebeat

olestoepoke wrote: »

Unless you are one of the people that doesn't want to be vaccinated

You mean an actual consequence of a making a choice???

And here I thought we were all sheep

pjohnson

olestoepoke wrote: »

Unless you are one of the people that doesn't want to be vaccinated

Thats their choice. Accept the consequences of their choice.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Vaccination is a choice.

But choices have consequences. If you decide not to get a vaccine then accept the consequences.

But couldn't the government extend the vaccine passport to other vaccines? The flu vaccine could become mandatory. Note that it's a vaccine passport, not a covid passport. It's coercion. It's a very dangerous road to go down, in my opinion. It could potentially mean that people would need permission from the State to do basically anything.

olestoepoke

pjohnson wrote: »

Thats their choice. Accept the consequences of their choice.

I agree, I was merely pointing out that the statement "there is literally no downside" is subjective and won't apply to a significant percentage of the population

Beasty

Threads merged

drunkmonkey

Beasty wrote: »

Threads merged

This is the vaccine passports thread, that's not what Leo was taking about.

timmyntc

faceman wrote: »

You can’t discriminate against people who aren’t vaccinated - it’s an EU rule. That’s why the proposed EU travel cert also includes a negative test result

The EU travel pass wont discriminate - but national govts are free (well not free but they can do it in contravention of EU law) to put in place a 2 tier society for vaccinations vs un-vaccinated

sydthebeat

olestoepoke wrote: »

I agree, I was merely pointing out that the statement "there is literally no downside" is subjective and won't apply to a significant percentage of the population

If you're referring to the people who chose not to get the vaccination, then that's not a downside of the quicker opening up of society....

.... As nothing they would do would open society quicker.

So no, theres literally no downside to this.

Dressoutlet

I have vaccine passports for all my children already. This is not some new concept