Sinn Fein cancels bomber commemoration

walshb

walshb wrote: »

I know. I see them on one.

Men dressed up in army gear n all..😖

Wouldnt have huge time for pomp and pagentry of em myself tbf.....but its a good way to meet up with mates and bit of craic to be had

Gatling

Deleted User wrote: »

This is patently untrue,the ira killed 1200 security force members

640 British soldiers Vs something like 1800 civilians ,not all of death of soldiers came at the hand of the Ra, considering the number of soldiers who served in Ni during the troubles 300,000 +

McMurphy

walshb wrote: »

I say this as someone who was never anti SF or anti IRA during the heat of the troubles....but we have moved in since then.,,,,there is no place for this now, nor this type of public endorsing commemoration.

Let me get this straight, you were never "anti SF or anti IRA" during the troubles, but anyone remotely familiar with your posts in here will know you certainly come across as being fairly critical of them now.

Man wasn't critical of the Provos or Sinn Fein during troubles, but is post ceasefire......

You a dissident bro?

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

640 British soldiers Vs something like 1800 civilians ,not all of death of soldiers can at the hand of the Ra

the ira didnt 1800 hundred civilans

They are cited as 1705 killings,of which circa 1200 are security forces (ruc,sas,udr etc)

Roughly 80 of its own members via accident/execution

Roughly 300 in attacks on retired security force members ,(think some innocents caught up there admitedley)



(Unless yous think ruc were civilan,yous been sold a lie)




Where as brits/loyalists roughly 1500,of which circa 1100 are civilains,

Gatling

tipptom wrote: »

The native Irish were been murdered by civilians armed and sent by the British government/army.
You treat people like savages in their own home then you are going to get a savage responce eventually,

Like blowing up pubs ,shops full of men women and children execution of innocent people for perceived crimes against the Ra,
A bunch of cowards proclaiming themselves as heroes ,

Gatling

Deleted User wrote: »

the ira didnt 1800 hundred civilans

They are cited as 1705 killings,of which circa 1200 are security forces (ruc,sas,udr etc)

3500 deaths in Ni 52% were civilians and the ira was responsible of 62% of those deaths which adds up to something like 1300

McMurphy

Gatling wrote: »

3500 deaths in Ni 52% were civilians and the ira was responsible of 62% of those deaths which adds up to something like 1300

Source?

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

3500 deaths in Ni 52% were civilians and the ira was responsible of 62% of those deaths which adds up to something like 1300

Would this not tell to yous,in light of above facts,the only ones fighting somewhat fair was the ira??


Security forces are not civilans


Yous been sold a line of lies and misrepresentations about the troubles...the 1st pub bombing,which caused 16 deaths btw, (mcgurks bar) was by loyalists and blamed offially on the ira by swcurity forces for 30 plus years


Would it be true,that loyalists whom got 80% of their intel from security forces,managed to kill 90% innocents.....likes of glennane gang,(off duty security force members) killed 151 people of whom 149 had no involvement what so ever in republicanism and the 2 anolmies were caught up in bomb attack on a pub?

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

The family have the right to mourn their son in private and in a dignified manner.

The reason this has got condemnation is that Sinn Fein jumped on the bandwagon to turn it into a public commemoration of a terrorist, replete with IRA paraphernalia, logos and references to "Oglaigh na hEireann".

Have you got a link to that please?


In the meantime, this is what SF has to say about it in your favourite newspaper.


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/sinn-fein-councillor-says-nothing-to-apologise-for-after-party-sponsored-event-for-ira-bomber-40110080.html


All yours Blanch:


“The party helped the family organise a short online tribute to their son and brother,” Cllr Ó Súilleabháin told Alan Corcoran on South East Radio.
‘There is a family bereavement here. That's the first and foremost consideration. In a week when a family should have been allowed to remember their son or brother, I just found it so disappointing that they had to be subjected to the vilest online abuse, carried out in a very organised way and we'll say very targeted way,” the Sinn Féin councillor claimed.
“It wasn't random. It was done by a local political gang. Then we had the cheap political point-scoring not just from Senator [Gerard] Craughwell but from local Senator Malcolm Byrne.”

tipptom

Gatling wrote: »

Like blowing up pubs ,shops full of men women and children execution of innocent people for perceived crimes against the Ra,
A bunch of cowards proclaiming themselves as heroes ,

The British were the terrorists and are known all over the world as bully boy terrorists,specialising in the murder of innocent civilians for the crime of trying to survive in their own country from the debasment of outside terrorists

They didnt care about their shops or pubs in Britain or the people in them and witheld and delayed warnings so that lives would be lost just to gain propaganda
The only time the British government/army/mi5 started to care and capitulate when it was brought to their own country was when their financial districts started getting hit,but thats YOUR terrorist heros for you and the real cowards.

grayzer75

Another thread full of hypocritical Blueshirts boiling their piss, comical to say the least........

Harry Palmr

tipptom wrote: »

The British were the terrorists and are known all over the world as bully boy terrorists,specialising in the murder of innocent civilians for the crime of trying to survive in their own country from the debasment of outside terrorists

They didnt care about their shops or pubs in Britain or the people in them and witheld and delayed warnings so that lives would be lost just to gain propaganda
The only time the British government/army/mi5 started to care and capitulate when it was brought to their own country was when their financial districts started getting hit,but thats YOUR terrorist heros for you and the real cowards.

And so it begins, another tedious thread.

Just Watch Troubles: A Secret History,. The Provos were infiltrated to feck, the peace process was ongoing behind the scenes because the PIRA knew they were fighting a war that wasn't going to be won even if it wasn't going to be "lost" as such. Everyone sued for peace in the end.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Have you got a link to that please?


In the meantime, this is what SF has to say about it in your favourite newspaper.


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/sinn-fein-councillor-says-nothing-to-apologise-for-after-party-sponsored-event-for-ira-bomber-40110080.html


All yours Blanch:


“The party helped the family organise a short online tribute to their son and brother,” Cllr Ó Súilleabháin told Alan Corcoran on South East Radio.
‘There is a family bereavement here. That's the first and foremost consideration. In a week when a family should have been allowed to remember their son or brother, I just found it so disappointing that they had to be subjected to the vilest online abuse, carried out in a very organised way and we'll say very targeted way,” the Sinn Féin councillor claimed.
“It wasn't random. It was done by a local political gang. Then we had the cheap political point-scoring not just from Senator [Gerard] Craughwell but from local Senator Malcolm Byrne.”

Im suprised ffg in their new found want for positive online discourse,havnt publically come out and condemned the abuse this family have received

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

First of all, the commemoration was being organised by the father of Edward O'Brien, who was killed. His family had no idea that he was in the IRA by the way. The family called off the commemoration because they were receiving threats and abuse.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40229735.html

By the way, O'Brien was the only one killed in the bombing. There were 7 people injured however. You should try and get your facts straight.

Commemorating your dead son is one thing. Doing so when he was on his way to cause untold grief, pain and suffering, as well as death and permanent disfigurement is delusional and should never have gotten off the ground. It doesn't matter whether you knew it or not. He was a scumbag, we're all lucky that he 'only' killed himself (tell that to the bus driver....oh, you can't, because he's permanently deaf!) and they should be ashamed for trying to commemorate his death in any public way. I, for one, have serious issues with the Irish flag being associated with scumbags like him.

jm08 wrote: »

No matter what he might have done, he was still their son. And this is how they were commemorating it (from Irish Times).

Looks more like they were aligning themselves with Wexford GAA rather than the IRA.

Of course Leo was lying again to the Dail:

So, to summarise what I think happened (just from reading the Examiner and Irish Times).
1) Family of O'Brien were organisating an online commemoration.
2) They got abuse for it and decided to cancel it.

3) Their local Sinn Fein rep. helped them to publicise that it was called off.


Fine Gael hacks start spinning like no bodies business.

Commemorating a terrorist. That's what they were doing, in the eyes of the world, not commemorating their son. They were bigging up a coward who wanted to kill and maim. Doesn't matter what he did in his life up to that point, the second he decided to pack a bomb in a bag and board a bus , then all bets are off. They should be disowning him instead of commemorating him.

If they wanted to commemorate him in private, they could have done so and nobody would be talking about it. Instead, they went all public and rightfully received abuse for it. Your attempts to distance Sinn Féin from this are laughable, same as your attempts to pour scorn on the other parties for condemning it. One vital component you've conveniently missed from your summary:

The Edward O’Brien online commemoration, which was organised by Ed’s father Miley and supported by Sinn Féin, has been cancelled at the request of family, due to significant online abuse targeting the family

Ask yourself, why where they supporting the commemoration in the first instance?
Was he a member of Sinn Féin?
Was he carrying out the bombing with their blessing?
Did they know about it?
Or are they guilty of the same bull**** that all the paramilitary knuckle draggers are guilty of, glorifying violence and death and destruction of their 'heroes' because they were waving the corect colour flag?

He was nothing more than sadistic killer, at heart. This guy should be forgotten about, not lionised. Sinn Féin themselves were first in the queue to give out about the RIC and DMP commemoration that was proposed. Now they're at the forefront of this ****e. GTFO of here with that nonsense.

Shameful, and anyone who defends remembering this scumbag is guilty by association.

blanch152

jm08 wrote: »

Have you got a link to that please?


In the meantime, this is what SF has to say about it in your favourite newspaper.


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/sinn-fein-councillor-says-nothing-to-apologise-for-after-party-sponsored-event-for-ira-bomber-40110080.html


All yours Blanch:


“The party helped the family organise a short online tribute to their son and brother,” Cllr Ó Súilleabháin told Alan Corcoran on South East Radio.
‘There is a family bereavement here. That's the first and foremost consideration. In a week when a family should have been allowed to remember their son or brother, I just found it so disappointing that they had to be subjected to the vilest online abuse, carried out in a very organised way and we'll say very targeted way,” the Sinn Féin councillor claimed.
“It wasn't random. It was done by a local political gang. Then we had the cheap political point-scoring not just from Senator [Gerard] Craughwell but from local Senator Malcolm Byrne.”

You know we had a family anniversary two weeks ago. We didn't need to organise a public online shindig to commemorate the person who meant something to us. We got together on Zoom and had an hour of chatting and remembering.

Why would you organise an online tribute unless you were celebrating his activity in the IRA?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Commemorating your dead son is one thing. Doing so when he was on his way to cause untold grief, pain and suffering, as well as death and permanent disfigurement is delusional and should never have gotten off the ground. It doesn't matter whether you knew it or not. He was a scumbag, we're all lucky that he 'only' killed himself (tell that to the bus driver....oh, you can't, because he's permanently deaf!) and they should be ashamed for trying to commemorate his death in any public way. I, for one, have serious issues with the Irish flag being associated with scumbags like him.



Commemorating a terrorist. That's what they were doing, in the eyes of the world, not commemorating their son. They were bigging up a coward who wanted to kill and maim. Doesn't matter what he did in his life up to that point, the second he decided to pack a bomb in a bag and board a bus , then all bets are off. They should be disowning him instead of commemorating him.

If they wanted to commemorate him in private, they could have done so and nobody would be talking about it. Instead, they went all public and rightfully received abuse for it. Your attempts to distance Sinn Féin from this are laughable, same as your attempts to pour scorn on the other parties for condemning it. One vital component you've conveniently missed from your summary:



Ask yourself, why where they supporting the commemoration in the first instance?
Was he a member of Sinn Féin?
Was he carrying out the bombing with their blessing?
Did they know about it?
Or are they guilty of the same bull**** that all the paramilitary knuckle draggers are guilty of, glorifying violence and death and destruction of their 'heroes' because they were waving the corect colour flag?

He was nothing more than sadistic killer, at heart. This guy should be forgotten about, not lionised. Sinn Féin themselves were first in the queue to give out about the RIC and DMP commemoration was proposed. Now they're at the forefront of this ****e. GTFO of here with that nonsense.

Shameful, and anyone who defends remembering this scumbag is guilty by association.

not a scumbag though.....we allow wearing of poppies in this country....but anyone who died for ireland or whats to remember is screamed scumbag at.......wtf?

walshb

McMurphy wrote: »

Let me get this straight, you were never "anti SF or anti IRA" during the troubles, but anyone remotely familiar with your posts in here will know you certainly come across as being fairly critical of them now.

Man wasn't critical of the Provos or Sinn Fein during troubles, but is post ceasefire......

You a dissident bro?

It's 2021, bro. I have grown up and matured and moved with the times

I have embraced and celebrated the progress Ireland and Britain have made these past decades, and I am very proud of it.

SF and IRA generally had my understanding and concern when they were very much up against the power of the British and Unionists up North.

Times have gladly changed, and they have changed because of the likes of SF and IRA persistence in fighting for their people, and fighting for equality up North

I am just not caught stuck in the past on this.....

As for SF and their policies and talents as possible leaders of a democratic Ireland.........my god, they are so uninspiring..I'd not at all be enamored to see them get in. Driven by pure populism wind-blowing.

blanch152

walshb wrote: »

It's 2021, bro. I have grown up and matured and moved with the times

I have embraced and celebrated the progress Ireland and Britain have made these past decades, and I am very proud of it.

SF and IRA generally had my understanding and concern when they were very much up against the power of the British and Unionists up North.

Times have gladly changed, and they have changed because of the likes of SF and IRA persistence in fighting for their people, and fighting for equality up North

I am just not caught stuck in the past on this.....

As for SF and their policies and talents as possible leaders of a democratic Ireland.........my god, they are so uninspiring..I'd not at all be enamored to see them get in. Driven by pure populism wind-blowing.

There are a lot of people who supported Sinn Fein and the IRA when they were young, but who as they matured, moved away from that support. That has always been the way.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

not a scumbag though.....we allow wearing of poppies in this country....but anyone who died for ireland or whats to remember is screamed scumbag at.......wtf?

Died for Ireland? He did in his bollocks.

He died trying to kill innocent people that had nothing to do with Ireland......with his head filled with twee, one-eyed nonsense from someone else too chicken-sh1t to carry a bomb themselves. Thank god he was too much of a thick to be able to make the bomb properly and only blew himself up.

If a son of mine was ignorant enough to fall for that muck and callous enough to want to avenge it by blowing up a load of honest folk going to/from work, AND was stupid enough to blow hismelf to bits, I'd be mortified.

You should learn how to spell Ireland correctly, by the way. Seeing as you have such a romanticised grá for the land, then you may as well honour it by at least getting the spelling in order.

McMurphy

walshb wrote: »

It's 2021, bro. I have grown up and matured and moved with the times

I have embraced and celebrated the progress Ireland and Britain have made these past decades, and I am very proud of it.

SF and IRA generally had my understanding and concern when they were very much up against the power of the British and Unionists up North.

Times have gladly changed, and they have changed because of the likes of SF and IRA persistence in fighting for their people, and fighting for equality up North

I am just not caught stuck in the past on this.....

As for SF and their policies and talents as possible leaders of a democratic Ireland.........my god, they are so uninspiring..I'd not at all be enamored to see them get in. Driven by pure populism wind-blowing.

You're on here expecting me to believe that you thought the Ra and Shinners were right on freedom fighters, bombing and blasting and their way to achieve their goals, you recognise the equalities and changes brought in, somewhat due in part (you atone yourself) to the Provos campaign.

And you only have an issue now because they commemorate certain events in history, or the deaths of comrade's, friends or family?

To summarize, you're cool with them blowing things up, but aren't so cool with them remembering the past.

Sorry walshb, I don't buy that myself.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

There are a lot of people who supported Sinn Fein and the IRA when they were young, but who as they matured, moved away from that support. That has always been the way.

That's why there's been a 50% decrease in FG seats over the last decade and an increase of about 60% for SF, cool story bro lol............

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Died for Ireland? He did in his bollocks.

Imo he did

He died trying to kill innocent people that had nothing to do with Ireland......with his head filled with twee, one-eyed nonsense from someone else too chicken-sh1t to carry a bomb themselves. Thank god he was too much of a thick to be able to make the bomb properly and only blew himself up.

Used he not give warnings,when planting the bomb....bit of an illogical mismomer there in that case to say he wanted on kill innocents imo

If a son of mine was ignorant enough to fall for that muck and callous enough to want to avenge it by blowing up a load of honest folk going to/from work, AND was stupid enough to blow hismelf to bits, I'd be mortified.

Youd be happy for your children to stand by and done nating,when brits blaggarding and terrorising people in ireland....each to their own i guess

Sunny Disposition

Okay, loads of people hate that he died while on active service for the IRA, I agree with that. Terrible thing to have brought out a bomb and the outcome could have been worse. But expecting his family or even people who share his views not to commemorate him is not right.
Martin McGuinness had a Fine Gael Taoiseach at his funeral, and he was far more involved than Ed O'Brien, which makes the Varadkar criticism seem a bit rich. O'Brien had his head turned as a young fella, and it ruined his life, probably a significant part of the lives of his family members also. It is a tragedy, albeit there could have been a worse one.

walshb

McMurphy wrote: »

You're on here expecting me to believe that you thought the Ra and Shinners were right on freedom fighters, bombing and blasting and their way to achieve their goals, you recognise the equalities and changes brought in, somewhat due in part (you atone yourself) to the Provos campaign.

And you only have an issue now because they commemorate certain events in history, or the deaths of comrade's, friends or family?

To summarize, you're cool with them blowing things up, but aren't so cool with them remembering the past.

Sorry walshb, I don't buy that myself.

You seem to have quite a childish way to look at this

Cool with blowing things up? That's just nonsense

It seems you have no idea of nuance and depth and all that comes with it

No normal decent human would be cool with violence....

When there was real hostility and trouble and aggro and violence up North, I was absolutely sympathetic with the nationalists. SF and IRA and the people fought against it.....

Was I cool with people losing their lives at the hands of the IRA? No, I am a decent person who doesn't really celebrate in death, but I can also understand that when a people are badly oppressed, they will react.

Both sides lost lives and committed acts that ended lives. Thank god both sides have now put their killing aside, and have at least tried to live in peace..

There is not much more to it, really.

Commemoration is important, but at times, people maybe need to stop and think before being so public in what exactly they are commemorating. This does not just apply to SF and Nationalists.

The family of the man on a bombing mission may want to do their own private commemoration. Fine.

McMurphy

walshb wrote: »

You seem to have quite a childish way to look at this

Cool with blowing things up? That's just nonsense

It seems you have no idea of nuance and depth and all that comes with it

No normal decent human would be cool with violence....

When there was real hostility and trouble and aggro and violence up North, I was absolutely sympathetic with the nationalists. SF and IRA and the people fought against it.....

Was I cool with people losing their lives at the hands of the IRA? No, I am a decent person who doesn't really celebrate in death, but I can also understand that when a people are badly oppressed, they will react.

Both sides lost lives and committed acts that ended lives. Thank god both sides have now put their killing aside, and have at least tried to live in peace..

There is not much more to it, really.

Commemoration is important, but at times, people maybe need to stop and think before being so public in what exactly they are commemorating. This does not just apply to SF and Nationalists.

The family of the man on a bombing mission may want to do their own private commemoration. Fine.

Cool - I just think you're being entirely disingenuous.

With that in mind I guess we'll leave it there so,

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Imo he did

You're entitled to hold that opinion. You're still wrong. He died because he was an easily led simpleton who did the dirty work of others too cowardly to do it themselves. He paid the ultimate price. Thank the heavens he only killed himself, the scumbag.

Deleted User wrote: »

Used he not give warnings,when planting the bomb....bit of an illogical mismomer there in that case to say he wanted on kill innocents imo

That sentence doesn't makes sense, please try again.

Deleted User wrote: »

Youd be happy for your children to stand by and done nating,when brits blaggarding and terrorising people in ireland....each to their own i guess

More barely legible ramblings. Two questions come to mind from reading that:

1. Please tell me, who was on that bus in London that were terrorisng and blackguarding people in Ireland?
2. You'd be happy for your children to murder innocent civilians and be blown to pieces 'for Ireland', would you?

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok???

Not happy with a bizzare,poorly informed rant....now you choose to complain on spelling??.....rattled as fcuk it seems :pac:

Yes, it is I who is poorly informed. Not you, with your flag waving, armchair republican bolloxology. You're such a patriot and a nationalist that you cannot even get the name of your country correct, despite being pulled up on it and it being posted already, countless times in this thread.

I've lived my whole life surrounded by eejits who ran around writing "IRA" and "Brits out" and other such rubbish on walls and desks and gates. People who considered themselves more Irish than the average man, because they ran around denouncing 'da Brits'.

Every single one of them hadn't a lick of Irish to their name, bar "Tiocfaidh ár lá" and 90% of them couldn't spell that correctly either. Deluded, brainwashed, ill-informed and under-educated cretins, every single one of them. You have posted nothing to dissuade me from pigeonholing you in with them.

walshb

McMurphy wrote: »

Cool - I just think you're being entirely disingenuous.

With that in mind I guess we'll leave it there so,

Grand

I just don't see what is disingenuous with maturing, growing, changing through the years,.....

If nothing at all, the troubles up North and all they entailed is so far from black and white...hence people's views will be far from black and white

My personal view is that in theses recent times, I think we all need to be a little more sensitive to the past, without needing to forget the past...

The Stanley tweets really showed this......we need to move on from this.

Sunny Disposition

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Okay, loads of people hate that he died while on active service for the IRA, I agree with that. Terrible thing to have brought out a bomb and the outcome could have been worse. But expecting his family or even people who share his views not to commemorate him is not right.

Nobody is expecting them not to commemorate him, or the memory of him.

But doing so in a public manner is incredibly short-sighted. It is naive at best, and inflammatory at worst. In fact, it does more to sow division than anything else. Trying to publicly honour this would-be murderer is in such poor taste that you're asking for backlash. Not to mention that it makes a mockery of commemorating real Irish heroes.

joeysoap

jm08 wrote: »

But Whereas Fianna Fail/Fianna Gael were killing Irish people, at least the IRA had a foreign adversary.

an awful lot of Irish people must have got in their way.

tipptom

walshb wrote: »

Grand

I just don't see what is disingenuous with maturing, growing, changing through the years,.....

If nothing at all, the troubles up North and all they entailed is so far from black and white...hence people's views will be far from black and white

My personal view is that in theses recent times, I think we all need to be a little more sensitive to the past, without needing to forget the past...

The Stanley tweets really showed this......we need to move on from this.

SF and Stanley were idiotic to apologise for his tweets
They need to start owning it and not hiding that SF was the party of the IRA

They either disown the IRA and the people who fought against the British army terror machine in NI or stand up to FF/FG/Irish media and say they will not apologise for sucessfull campaigns in NI against the British

FG/FF/irish media are happy to try and outunionist the most bigoted Unionist/Loyalist to hang on to power and would even try and destabilize the North if needed in a last ditch rearguard to cling to power

The more RTE and the print media brought up SFs IRA past in the last election the more they surged in votes,the FG/FF "irishman" that was just out for what he could get from the party he supported is becoming extinct and good riddance