COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

josip

Wolf359f wrote: »

It seems only AZ is associated with the rare brain clot.
General clotting as a whole is expected, but a rare brain clot in a very localised cluster has only been seen in people vaccinated with AZ.
The media seem to be forgetting that fact.

Some of the populist British media outlets choosing to ignore it more likely

hmmm

eoinbn wrote: »

We can't pause for every possible link when the possible link is flimsy. Right now we are vaccinating at between 5-10m a week in the EU. What happens when we are at 30m a week? There will be more recently vaccinated people dying, for various reasons, and more flimsy links. We really need a handle on this.
We need a better reason than 'an abundance of caution'. We need some hard numbers on the reason behind the pause in the rollout.

Completely agree. We're almost fortunate this is only the AZ vaccine, can you imagine if we put the Pfizer vaccine on hold?

Considering the economic and human cost to the ongoing epidemic, it should take something significant to interrupt it. We're missing a bit of balance here - I don't blame the people involved, but they all have very narrow responsibilities and someone has to take responsibility for the wider picture.

is_that_so

brickster69 wrote: »

Wow, so 10 Million Euro of funding. UK has donated £700 million and pledged all spare vaccines. That is one country compared to 27.

EU will be sharing surplus anyway and they've ordered over 2bn of them.

josip

Szero wrote: »

Parts of the US are now down to those aged 40+.

https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1371830272715546626

The UK is reported to be going to those aged 40+ by Easter.

Meanwhile we are on 80+. Books will be written about the slow EU rollout.

Starting Friday, not today according to your link.
We're on 75+ since yesterday, my aunt got hers today.
The US have a vaccine nationalisation policy like the UK so they were always going to be ahead.

josip

brickster69 wrote: »

Wow, so 10 Million Euro of funding. UK has donated £700 million and pledged all spare vaccines. That is one country compared to 27.

But not before they've vaccinated everyone of their own first.
Easy to "pledge" now, how many have they actually given?

redt0m

feelings wrote: »

Ouch, that's some delay. What age?

If the EMA announcement on Thursday is positive, I presume they'll recommence the AZ vaccinations here fairly quickly?

77

is_that_so

redt0m wrote: »

77

The dates are probably ones HSE believe they can guarantee.

eoinbn

The news that Pfizer/BioNtech will supply an extra 10m doses hasn't got much attention. Besides the extra doses it seems like a sign that BioNtech's ramp up at their new plant is going to plan. The EU rollout really hedges on that going smoothly.

Sweet.Science

eoinbn wrote: »

The news that Pfizer/BioNtech will supply an extra 10m doses hasn't got much attention. Besides the extra doses it seems like a sign that BioNtech's ramp up at their new plant is going to plan. The EU rollout really hedges on that going smoothly.

That's 100k over 3 months to us . Less than 10k a week

is_that_so

Sweet.Science wrote: »

That's 100k over 3 months to us . Less than 10k a week

It'll cover some of the likely AZ shortfall, the aim I suspect of the deal.

lbj666

RavenBea17b wrote: »

Just read a post on twitter vacciworld account.
It mentions EMA director we are worried that 'European States' suspensions of AZ vaccine will have an effect on trust in the vaccine.
EMA Director - we have received reports of thromboembolic events for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, but the focus is on the AZ vaccine.

EMA pharmacovigilance expert :the numbers of post-vaccination thromboembolic events are much lower, much lower than what you'd expect to see in the general population.


My query then is, if there are thrombosis events across ALL currently approved vaccines and there ARE why not pause for all vaccine types. study the data, study the circumstances etc. Review the variables.

On a broad population level is there is no apparent difference in risk Vs other vacines or Vs no vacine. The concerns with AZ are is there were 3-4 serious cases in a setting thats far more specific than the broad population, ie. young HCW in the same hospital.

lbj666

Sweet.Science wrote: »

That's 100k over 3 months to us . Less than 10k a week

Yes but surely upping their promises is a very good sign compared to barely meeting them or not at all.

is_that_so

Slightly unusual link for this thread- a 40m podcast from The Economist.

We speak to Ozlem Tureci and Ugur Sahin, the couple who co-founded BioNTech and created the first covid-19 vaccine to get regulatory approval.

The Jab: How will behaviour change? https://play.acast.com/s/ea536b26-ff86-4e32-870c-f5bbb16461a4/7f573ecb-f439-4f5a-85c3-d66e90fe6ff7

brickster69

josip wrote: »

But not before they've vaccinated everyone of their own first.
Easy to "pledge" now, how many have they actually given?

The £700 million went towards the making of the vaccines. So round about 200 million doses you can say.

Danzy

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

This vaccine rollout out has done more to fuel nationalism than the right wing and far right wing parties could ever have hoped to do.

There should have been a concerted effort among the EU, US and UK (at the least) where once vaccines are given to the vulnerable and elderly ( or at least over 60) in home countries, they are then distributed out to countries who have yet to vaccinate their population of the same.

It's without question the right thing to do. Instead countries have shown they will put flag and nationalism ahead of the protection of the human race as a whole. I'm in my 30s and I'm fairly sure I will be offered this vaccine before a 70 or 80 year old in most third world countries. What is the point in that? And you could say a similar situation is happening right now except we are not a third world country.
A 40 year old is been given the vaccine up the road where the disease poses little or no risk and the reality is someone in their 70s or 80s will probably die somewhere is this country because of this skewed distribution.
Where are peoples conscience on this?? The history books will surely look back on this and lament the state of how these governments handled it.

The countries where you here Govt politicians talking about "no one Safe till all are safe" and the need for solidarity, empathy etc as one hears in the EU block and elsewhere aren't in a position to vaccinate themselves quickly, nevermind poorer countries.

The two countries that people were castigating as taking a nationalist approach, Britain and America are rapidly vaccinating their population and putting plans in place to mass rollout vaccines to the poorest in the world.

Their vaccine is free to replicate, the EU are blocking poor countries from doing so with vaccines from the block.

Talk is cheap and talk fretting about nationalism and the need for solidarity is usually only dinner party talk.

Nevermind the EU's funding and donations to help Poor countries.

It's so cheap as to be an insult.

eoinbn

Sweet.Science wrote: »

That's 100k over 3 months to us . Less than 10k a week

You missed my point. The most important aspect of the 10m extra doses is that it signals that the ramp up is going as planned, if not better than planned. As we have seen with AZ and potentially with J&J these ramp ups in production aren't trivial. If it does go to plan then we can expect ~180k doses a week from Pfizer/BioNtech in June.

astrofool

Danzy wrote: »

Their vaccine is free to replicate, the EU are blocking poor countries from doing so with vaccines from the block.

Talk is cheap and talk fretting about nationalism and the need for solidarity is usually only dinner party talk.

Nevermind the EU's funding and donations to help Poor countries.

It's so cheap as to be an insult.

The fact that the EU has exported 35M+ indicates that they are willing to help other countries now, not in the future when they have spare.

I presume you're talking about the Chadox1 vaccine developed by the partially EU funded Oxford Vaccine institute, which is being produced at cost in multiple countries (India already shipping from the serum institute). I don't believe that the US has licensed the Moderna or J&J vaccine to be produced at cost (and neither has Pfizer).

Klonker

robinph wrote: »

Who also happen to work in the same hospital.

Could be wrong, but if you have something used so widely across a massive population with no issues, but then a couple of cases pop up in one town, in one work place, in people doing the same job... The first thing to look at is locally to see if there is any other link.

It is a good reason to suspend vaccination in that town/ hospital temporarily. Its not a good reason to suspend it internationally though.

What I find is a little strange is that I read yesterday that the cases were all in the same hospital and from different batches. I kind of wondered at the time why was there so many different batches in the same hospital but possibly they happened at different times and only reporting them all now since the fourth case occurred. You seemingly read something similar as you mentioned it all happened in the same hospital.

But then I read the below on RTE news site today where a Norwegian doctor stated that they were all in different areas of Norway. Maybe he was mistaken or the original news was wrong but it all seems a little strange to be honest. Add to that they've never mentioned was it first or second dose from what I've read. You may say this is unimportant but I think in the context of the situation people would like to know which dose it was and its surprising it hasn't been mentioned.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0316/1204251-coronavirus-global/

JTMan

Biden says the US are talking to several countries on what to do with extra doses. Hopefully this includes the EU/Ireland.

https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1371881173702602760

Cork2021

Moving fast,

https://twitter.com/ema_news/status/1371898021101907971?s=21

stephenjmcd

JTMan wrote: »

Biden says the US are talking to several countries on what to do with extra doses. Hopefully this includes the EU/Ireland.

https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1371881173702602760

At a guess I'd say Canda will get them first to be honest.

Danzy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

At a guess I'd say Canda will get them first to be honest.

Most of it will go to developing countries first.

Though one would presume that Washington and London will give a hand up to the EU.

If only to limit the economic damage to themselves.

Tippbhoy1

Russman wrote: »

You don't think it would be an idea to maybe try to convince them and explain to them why they should take it or why its safe ?
Just tough sh1t if you have any doubts buddy, step aside ?

Why should anyone else lose out because someone else required convincing?
Will we take a gp off the line for a half hour to rub someone’s back and reassure them? A couple of times a day, slowing the rollout by x amount.

If I said that a doctor could administer 5 in an hour, 40 in a day, 240 in a 6 day week, 1000 in a month, but if he needed to convince 10%, x 5000GPs, that’s a lot of delay, sorry bud.

“Do some research there for yourself like a good man, if you change your mind come back to us, cheers. Next”

Polar101

My mother got her first dose of the AZ vaccine yesterday, absolutely delighted (they haven't suspended the vaccinations where she lives). I was worried she'd want to cancel her appointment after watching the news, but instead she thought people were just overreacting.

Phew!

Pete_Cavan

Danzy wrote: »

Most of it will go to developing countries first.

Though one would presume that Washington and London will give a hand up to the EU.

If only to limit the economic damage to themselves.

How can London help the EU, most of the doses given in the UK have come from the EU?

Russman

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

Why should anyone else lose out because someone else required convincing?
Will we take a gp off the line for a half hour to rub someone’s back and reassure them? A couple of times a day, slowing the rollout by x amount.

If I said that a doctor could administer 5 in an hour, 40 in a day, 240 in a 6 day week, 1000 in a month, but if he needed to convince 10%, x 5000GPs, that’s a lot of delay, sorry bud.

“Do some research there for yourself like a good man, if you change your mind come back to us, cheers. Next”

Well they’d hardly attend for their shot if they weren’t going to take it.

I was referring to a survey/study (I think posted a few pages back or maybe on the other vaccine thread) where GPs in the UK who phoned their reluctant patients were seeing a 70% uptake amongst these patients after a simple phone call and explanation. Hardly rubbing their back for half an hour now is it ?

iamwhoiam

Russman wrote: »

Well they’d hardly attend for their shot if they weren’t going to take it.

I was referring to a survey/study (I think posted a few pages back or maybe on the other vaccine thread) where GPs in the UK who phoned their reluctant patients were seeing a 70% uptake amongst these patients after a simple phone call and explanation. Hardly rubbing their back for half an hour now is it ?

I remember reading that some of the phone calls took 20 minutes

WoollyRedHat

JTMan wrote: »

Biden says the US are talking to several countries on what to do with extra doses. Hopefully this includes the EU/Ireland.

https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1371881173702602760

Reports that we're in negotiations to do a swap deal, for every american.we allow over, we get one vaccine. Government also in talks to name an actual Plaza after Biden if he throws some vaccines our way.

Tippbhoy1

Russman wrote: »

Well they’d hardly attend for their shot if they weren’t going to take it.

I was referring to a survey/study (I think posted a few pages back or maybe on the other vaccine thread) where GPs in the UK who phoned their reluctant patients were seeing a 70% uptake amongst these patients after a simple phone call and explanation. Hardly rubbing their back for half an hour now is it ?

I remember the post. And there was a statement that said “up to 20 minutes” in it. I think the tweet was looking for a well done but to me I thought it was the wrong message. Any more than 60 seconds to me is providing beyond necessary care in an emergency situation.

And yes, I could see plenty or people turning up and not taking it if they’d decided they wanted to use the opportunity to talk about it, using the appointment as a discussion session.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Reports that we're in negotiations to do a swap deal, for every american.we allow over, we get one vaccine. Government also in talks to name an actual Plaza after Biden if he throws some vaccines our way.

Uncle Joe, with a tear in his eye listening to the hardship of the Old Country during the Zoom call releases 5 million vaccine doses to Ireland
Deliveries arrive on Thursday
We get everyone done on Friday
Pubs open on Saturday
Martin's Approval Ratings shoot up +50
Ballina renamed 'BidenTown'