Brexit Impact on Northern Ireland

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573189#Comment_120573189

Of course, the fact that NI uses a completely standalone system for motor cars - registration numbers, road numbering, MOT testing, road tax collecting, might suggest that this was in expectation of a UI at some point. Of course, there must be many other examples, but I do not interact with NI.

Even their local Gov voting lagged behind the GB one-man-one-vote for so many years. The ability for local Gov gerrymandering to go unnoticed - this shows just how under the radar NI was from mainstream UK politics.

I'm wondering do Sinn Fein really want a functioning Stormont back, which means a functioning Northern Ireland. Here's two interesting questions contained within the Institute of Irish Studies/Irish News poll from April 2022.

That 66% and 67% of Nationalists agreed with the two questions is quite interesting I think. Getting back into Stormont could be a double edged sword for Sinn Fein in the medium to long term. The longer Stormont is seen to deliver for people, maybe more mightn't want constitutional change as a consequence?

Link to poll:

https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/media/livacuk/humanitiesampsocialsciences/documents/Institute,of,Irish,Studies,Irish,News,Poll,March,2022.pdf

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578114#Comment_120578114

None of this necessarily indicates that the UK isn't interested in NI. The separate motor vehicle licensing/road numbering regime, believe it or not, predates the partition of Ireland — within the UK, Ireland had separate systems for this (and much else) from GB, and NI has simply succeeded to (updated versions of) those systems. Separate systems did not mean, in 1916-21, that Westminster didn't care about Ireland and would cheerfully let it go. There is no reason to think they mean that now.

As for NI politics, and the activities of NI government institutions, being ignored in Westminster — I have to say that's absolutely standard for any country with devolved regional governments. What goes on in the smaller, remoter regions is basically of no interest to the centre; as far as the centre is concerned, the whole point of devolving or distributing government powers is so that they don't have to pay any attention to this. NI is the most remote part of the UK and, for much of the twentieth century, was the only part of the UK with its own regional parliament and executive. The lack of focus in London on what went on at Stormont would be absolutely mirrored in the relationship between the metropolis and peripheral regions in Australia or the US. And, again, these things are, in themselves, not indicators that the political establishment, or the people at large, would cheerfully let the peripheral regions go.

No — what tells us that this attitude is now prevalent in Westminster is (a) they openly and officially say so, and have done for 30 years, and (b) at least for the Tories, they actively pursue and advance policies which undermine NI's place in the union. The only concern within the Tory party about this, the only opposition, appears to be from those who want even more extreme policies that would undermine NI's place in the union even more. That latter point has really only been evident in the last seven years or so, since the Brexit referendum, though I think its roots were established before that, as the view became slowly dominant in the Tory party that euroscepticism was the most important goal, more important that the unity of the UK.

Water John

I think if SF find themselves in Govn't North and South, they'll sell it as a sort UI in all but name.

Nody

Take back control (except we will accept all the laws EU made)!

The government has announced a major climbdown over its Brexit plans to remove EU laws from British statue books by the end of the year.

The EU Retained Law Bill currently going through parliament was due to automatically delete any European legislation at the end of 2023 – unless it was explicitly chosen to be saved.

But ministers on Wednesday quietly confirmed that they were gutting the bill's "sunset clause" and that the mass deletion would not go ahead as planned.

Now, only EU laws specifically chosen to be repealed will be scrapped – with the rest automatically becoming UK law at the end of the year.

The change, confirmed by business secretary Kemi Badenoch in a written ministerial statement

FrancieBrady

Fascinating to see this story about the Lords Report on the Winsdor Framework being reported.

Unionists and Brexiteers like Bryson, Hoey and the Newsletter reporting it as a win for them while the truth remains rather more damaging to the 'cause'.

https://twitter.com/News_Letter/status/1683712428524158976/photo/1

https://twitter.com/CatharineHoey/status/1683617185606905861

The Lords conclusion though will give Sunak etc all the cover they need to proceed.

Is it the end of the road for objectors?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120892649#Comment_120892649

That road ended a couple of years ago. The objectors are well off the beaten track by now, and into the bogs.

FrancieBrady

The strategic blunder of wanting Brexit continues to wreak havoc. Jeffrey seems to be more and more embattled in a fractured DUP. Last attempt to save his leadership?

https://twitter.com/BelTel/status/1686626275035611137

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930018#Comment_120930018

So, in an email sent to DUP members, Jeffrey is complaining about people "who brief against their own party and damage our electoral prospects and the cause of the Union" saying that they are “driven more by an effort to gain media coverage or advance their personal agenda".

Seems like karma to me when he did exactly the same when he was in the UUP.

Pete_Cavan

A big issue for the DUP is that there are now others outside the party who are influencing and even dictating Unionist thought. The likes of Bryson can jump in with a knee-jerk reaction rather than the party considering the potential consequences and acting accordingly. The likes of Sammy have come out with plenty of clangers over the years but would always fall back into line and allow the party handle any fallout.

The DUP are no longer in control of the conversation, there is a growing narrative that Unionists are victims and it is showing up how powerless Unionist politicians are and that the Tories have little respect for them (and a Labour government will likely have less).

L1011

Labour have slightly less history of throwing Unionists under the bus really, and pre Mowlam the only good SoS's were Tory too.

It was Thatcher that stood up to their threats and strops over the Anglo Irish Agreement for instance. Most of the worst stuff in the 70s was when Labour were in.

However the series of awful SoSs since 2010 (with one exception of Smith who was probably reshuffled away for being too good) has reset that balance. Even the worst of the 70s Labour SoSs wouldn't have asked why Nationalists didn't vote for Unionist parties like Bradley did!

Glaceon

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dups-sammy-wilson-says-leo-varadkar-has-cheek-as-northern-ireland-is-nothing-to-do-with-him/a2108170578.html

So the mask finally slips. Allister calling for a hard border "where it should be".

pixelburp

Nothing that we haven't heard before, many times, from a rump incapable of existing outside its own self created sense of siege mentality.

The sooner the DUP get annihilated the polls the better, but it speaks to how adrift from the normalcy of British & Irish politics NI has become that it simply hasn't featured. To the English press, the Protocol is done and yesterday's news. There are bigger things to worry about, while the DUP continue to make themselves nothing but a voice for immovable belligerence.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120960327#Comment_120960327

There was no 'mask' being worn by Jim.

At this stage belligerent Unionism has tried everything, lie about what the Taoiseach here did, embrace the GFA hypocritically in the hope it would save them, reactivate outrage about what the RA did, stomp out of political arrangements made by the very agreement they now embrace, attempt to bring people onto the streets etc etc etc and it has all failed.

What's next is anyone's guess but it won't be taking responsibility for their crazed strategy on Brexit.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120960390#Comment_120960390

The problem is that the DUP will not get annihilated in the polls, no more than the other sectarian party, as long as the focus is on constitutional issues.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120960327#Comment_120960327

Sammy 'branded the Irish Government as “a foreign government”'.

Good man Sammy, you're playing all the old hits.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120960909#Comment_120960909

It really is all they have left now. Deal is done and nobody is going to re-open it.

retalivity

Varadkar with a linfield jersey managed to unite both sides in bewilderment/disgust, a rare feat!

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120961555#Comment_120961555

When it suits, Linfield is not a Loyalist/Unionist club, doesn't stop the hypocrisy from Allister and Bryson scolding them for allowing this photo shoot and supporting the 'Union subjugating' protocol.

FrancieBrady

The contempt for the party leader in this from Paisley is jawdropping really. DUP seems to be completely sundered.

https://twitter.com/StephenNolan/status/1689943533300441088

Leroy42

So he wants the HoC recalled but no way they bring back the NI parliament?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964718#Comment_120964718

If they manage to get a resignation, a new Chief Constable cannot be appointed without a sitting Executive AFAIK

Leroy42

I am right in thinking that without a functioning executive, all NI operational considerations revert back to HoC? Or is it, as stated above, that many of the operational issues simply can't be dealt with?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965284#Comment_120965284

Not sure of the protocols, but I think they only revert back if they formally undertake Direct Rule or Joint Authority.

As it stands, AFAIK the Exec has to be functioning to appoint a new Police Chief. There may be a function to appoint from Westminster on a one off basis.

Pete_Cavan

The British government should just announce that in the absence of the NIE, they will implement Joint Authority. The reaction from the DUP would be priceless. In all seriousness, the only way to get the DUP back to Stormont is to make the option of not going back worse than going back.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966400#Comment_120966400

I fear the British will do what they always do - ignore and let the situation stagnate until they have to do something. Putting out fires instead of preventing them.

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966626#Comment_120966626

what can they do? their favourite (illegitimate) spoilt child in the north has now turned their anger against the british themselves, and god forbid but the BG couldnt be seen to actually do something. Sure they'll be able to blame everyone but the DUP eventually for something.

In reality, the DUP should be told to go fart up a tree and everyone else should get the executive going again. if the DUP - and by extension Unionism as thats where the real pressure to get back to stormont should be coming from - don't want to be involved in democracy, then fine. no reason the rest of the place should be waiting around on the DUP to stop huffing over a catholic first minister plus their completely ramshackle approach to brexit

downcow

until a way is found to change it by consent of both communities and others, then the gfa is the rules of the game, and to step outside them would be undemocratic

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120972823#Comment_120972823

the DUP messed up with brexit. Unionism needs to sort itself out

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120972823#Comment_120972823

Mmm. But the GFA is vague about the governance of NI while the Assembly is suspended. At the moment there's a kind of limbo; certain matters continue to be devolved to the NI institutions but the institutions (obviously) don't deal with them. The result is that they are largely not dealt with. If they have to be dealt with, then Westminster has the overriding competence to deal with them, and it has done on on occasion.

In terms of the GFA it's questionable, though, whether a particular matter continues to be a "devolved matter" once Westminster takes on dealing with it. And the longer this goes on, the more matters cease to be devolved matters.

What does the GFA say about non-devolved matters? It says that they are to be considered in the British-Irish Governmental Council, and that the BIGC is to act so far as possible by agreement between the two governments.

So, what the GFA points to in these circumstances is a progressively increasing role for the Irish government in considering and deciding NI affairs. Not exactly joint authority, but not exactly not. There's a good deal of wiggle room, but if the two governments think that going down this path might be an an effective way of potty-training the DUP, the GFA certainly gives them scope to do that.