Brexit Impact on Northern Ireland

FrancieBrady

A bizarre article that can't look partition in the face and name it as the real reason the UK has had to turn it's back on the north of Ireland.

As is usual, everything else gets the blame.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/04/07/the-curse-of-the-good-friday-agreement/

noelfirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457445#Comment_120457445

It's Brendan O'Neill. He's a bizarre libertarian and contrarian twunt of the highest order. Best ignored.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457445#Comment_120457445

That article was written by someone who denied the Srebrenica massacre as part of the Living Marxism group.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457424#Comment_120457424

It does not matter If it was the Irish Independent he was quoting : if he was quoting from a British paper you would have some other complaint. In fact, far more British newspapers are sold in Ireland than there are Irish newspapers sold in Britain. And there are no Irish language newspapers sold at all, such is the lack of demand. In a world view of the major cultures, our culture in these islands is more British (British including Scottish, Irish, Welsh, English) than anything else. Some lad in Indonesia or China would look of Irish / British culture as being very similar- he would not be able to differentiate between Limerick and Liverpool too easily. Of course, you get different traditions / parts of Irish/British culture ( same as in America for example). The British flag comprises the flags of England, Scotland And Ireland ( N. Ireland since partition). Our young people watch Love Island on TV. Nearly everyone speaks English ( if you go in to Tesco or Currys or Halfords or Homebase all of the instructions, signage etc will be in English). Our laws are based on the English system. Whatever about Irish everyday culture being a bit like British culture (wear the same clothes,eat the same foods, watch the same tv, listen to the same music generally, get hammered on stag and hen dos etc ) , N. Irish is even more so as they use the same currency, pay taxes to the British revenue, use the NHS etc.

The laughable thing is how Francie tells Downcow on numerous occasions he is Irish not British. You can be both, N. Ireland is represented in the Union Jack. Hundreds of thousands of N. Irish have serve their country in the UK armed forces. Most people in N.Ireland do not want to be part of a U.I. : Ireland just try to convince N. Ireland to marry is a bit like stalking.

In the not too distant future we will have that "omodan" Biden coming to Ireland and telling the world he is Irish - yet you deny the right of Downcow and his community to call themselves British, even though they support they support Britain financially ( through taxes ), militarity, etc etc?

What arrogance, especially as many denigrate the unionists at whatever chance they get. Half a dozen posts ago (2544) someone said of the biggest unionist party "The DUP is a vile, disgusting party". Only this weekend Republicans - not all Republicans, but some - glorified paramilitaries. Vile and disgusting and all as the DUP may be, at least it - and the vast majority of the unionist population -does not commemorate paramilitaries.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461599#Comment_120461599

What arrogance, especially as many denigrate the unionists at whatever chance they get. Half a dozen posts ago (2544) someone said of the biggest unionist party "The DUP is a vile, disgusting party". Only this weekend Republicans - not all Republicans, but some - glorified paramilitaries. Vile and disgusting and all as the DUP may be, at least it - and the vast majority of the unionist population -does not commemorate paramilitaries.

I asked you together day to show us an example of where you condemned unionism's support of terrorists (i.e. the DUP taking instructions from loyalist terrorists). Have you a response?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461636#Comment_120461636

The DUP has sought to introduce legislation in parliament to outlaw the glorification of terrorism. I would certainly condemn it if the leaders of the DUP carried the coffin of a terrorist, but they did not. Only some weeks ago, Mary Lou McDonald and Michelle O’Neill carried the coffin of of Ms O’Hare, an on-the-run, someone who was wanted in Northern Ireland for the attempted murder of a soldier, and someone who had convictions (for IRA arms smuggling) in the Republic of Ireland as well. If the DUP were to take instructions from loyalist terrorists I would condemn that. If the DUP were to have men in black berets commemorate terrorists like some Republicans ( eg Saoradh ) did this Easter weekend, and talking about an unfinished struggle, I would have the same attitude to that no matter which side it was on. I condemn all terrorism and glorification of same.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461764#Comment_120461764

So you are confirming that you haven't condemned unionism's link to terrorism then. Ok so.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461794#Comment_120461794

Yes I am confirming I condemn any and all political parties links to terrorism. Do you?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461821#Comment_120461821

I've posted condemnations of both sides on this forum many times over the years.

I'm just surprised as you seem unable to go long without jumping on someone over SF and the IRA yet not once have you criticised the DUP over their connection to loyalist terrorists which have been widely reported in the media.

When asked about it, you deflect and don't answer the question in much the same way that you haven't described unionist culture when you were asked.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461877#Comment_120461877

I have discussed the similarities and differences between unionist and nationalist culture only 4 posts ago (post no 2555 ). However I am not from the unionist culture in N.Ireland so I am probably not best placed to describe their culture. At least I recognise that they are British if that is what most of them want to be called, N. Ireland is represented in the Union Jack, they pay their taxes to the British exchequer and some of them serve in the UK armed forces etc. 

You say there is a connection between the DUP and loyalist terrorists which has been widely reported in the media - I have not seen that. No pictures of any DUP leaders carrying coffins of dead terrorists. No pictures of DUP leaders giving speeches at commemorations of UVF terrorists etc.

Do you think it right that Mary Lou McDonald and Michelle O’Neill carried the coffin of of Ms O’Hare?  Do you agree with other Easter commemorations?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461877#Comment_120461877

Following in the tradition of Carson and Craig, who mustered and armed a private army, belligerent Unionism has always had links to paramilitary style organisations.

Paisley and Robinson were no different with Ulster Resistance.

The following year, Ulster Resistance joined forces with the two established loyalist paramilitary groups, the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and Ulster Defence Association (UDA), to smuggle an enormous arsenal of weapons into the province, including about 200 Czech-made assault rifles called VZ58s and tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition.

Over the next 17 years, these VZ58s would be used in the murder or attempted murder of about 70 people in Northern Ireland. In the early 90s, they were used in three massacres: gunmen stood at the doors of a bookmaker’s shop and two bars, and simply sprayed the room. Nineteen people died and 27 were wounded.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/27/troubled-past-the-paramilitary-connection-that-still-haunts-the-dup

Sam Russell

Ian Paisley tried to create his own paramilitary force - The Ulster Third Force.

He toyed with terrorism, when it suited his political interests - and condemned it when it suited his then political interests.

There are few political leaders in NI who did not flirt with terrorism at one time or other - John Hume and the SDLP being the exception, and maybe a few others. Even the British Gov was involved in backing terrorists - even though they managed/tried to keep a level of deniability.

None shouted louder condemning terrorism of their opponents than those involved in their own version of it - the politics of condemning the latest atrocity.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457379#Comment_120457379

Downcow, you say SF will be on a platform in your town Easter weekend, on the anniversary, eulogising the people who done this.  I do not think it right that SF does that, I think it must be very difficult for the relatives and friends of those murdered to listen to SFs words. Really rubbing salt in the wounds.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461925#Comment_120461925

How is it in August 2017 Peter Robinson, represented by defamation lawyer Paul Tweed, secured an apology, retraction and undisclosed damages from the Metro newspaper for an article alleging he had been a member of Ulster Resistance?

As asked before, do you think it right that Mary Lou McDonald and Michelle O’Neill carried the coffin of of Ms O’Hare? Do you agree with other Easter commemorations?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461954#Comment_120461954

How is it in August 2017 Peter Robinson, represented by defamation lawyer Paul Tweed, secured an apology, retraction and undisclosed damages from the Metro newspaper for an article alleging he had been a member of Ulster Resistance?

Would that be this Peter Robinson?

As asked before, do you think it right that Mary Lou McDonald and Michelle O’Neill carried the coffin of of Ms O’Hare? Do you agree with other Easter commemorations?

Like I said, "you seem unable to go long without jumping on someone over SF and the IRA" 

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461931#Comment_120461931

The Ulster Third Force. I do not think it correct that Paisley set up , or helped set up such a force, but at least it never - as far as I know - injured let alone killed anyone, or caused any explosions.

Do you think it right that only some weeks ago Mary Lou McDonald and Michelle O’Neill carried the coffin of of IRA person Ms O’Hare? Do you agree with other Easter commemorations?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461954#Comment_120461954

So if Paul Tweed wins a case for you that means you are innocent?

He won a defamation case for Gerry Adams too.

You asked for links.

Paisley was on the BBC just this week along with Peter in their red berets, offering 'political cover' for a paramilitary group.

I said this before, I have absolutely no issue with respectful commemoration of the dead.

Those who wreaked death and suffering on the nationalist community have the Poppy crew and all the pomp of their own commemorations. Others should be respected too and sooner or later we will have to find a way to allow both sides remember respectfully.

If O'Hare lived up to the committments of the GFA then I have no issue with her receiving a burial or with who carried her to her place of rest.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461962#Comment_120461962

Thats the very man.,. And I assume that is the biggest link you can find between the DUP and terrorism? What you forget to say was that was a staged photo of Robinson with an AK47 when he visited Israel in 1984. No doubt he was curious to know what an AK47 felt like, how heavy or how light it was etc - especially as some of his voters and constituents had been / would be murdered by the AK47s, a weapon associated with the pira. Definitely the AK47 was not used by the British army.

Reminds me of a photo someone I know got taken once while at a shooting range while on holidays in the USA. Big deal.

Now, to put that in context, contrast that with so many links between the party of the ballot box in one hand and the armalite in the other, as their slogan once went? Even though they had very little electoral success when they pursued that policy. How many members of Sinn Fein (from Gerry "I was never in Sinn Fein" down ) in NI were in the IRA during the troubles? Hundreds? Thousands?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462117#Comment_120462117

I grabbed an infamous photo of Peter Robinson who, as part of a loyalist gang, attacked a rural village in the Republic. The same man your post seems to imply was not involved with loyalists.

And no, that reply and image had nothing really to do with the DUP and loyalist terrorists I referred to. Maybe look at some news about the the DUP and terrorists and inform yourself!

Each post you write seems to confirm that you have an agenda and are not concerned with any attacks on democracy by the likes of the DUP and are only concerned with getting one up on SF!

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461986#Comment_120461986

So you think it is ok that Republicans leaders condone the activities of the pira, and commemorate them, while no leaders in the UUP or DUP commemorates any UVF or condones their activities? That is a major difference between Republicanism and Unionism in N.I. Of course there were some bad apples but generally Unionism was for the forces of law and order.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462172#Comment_120462172

The conflict/war is over.

Many lost their lives in it.

Read this carefully: I have no issue with either side respectfully remembering their dead and commemorating respectfully. In fact, I think they have to be allowed to

I have zero time for taunting and triumphalism, while doing it.

That goes for the Poppy or the Easter Lily wearers.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462117#Comment_120462117

This is just dis-ingenuous denial now.

Pointless.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462156#Comment_120462156

"Atttacked" a rural village in the Republic!! It was a protest at the Anglo-Irish Agreement, and there were NO explosions and NO shooting.  Of course Robinson was charged under the Offences Against the State Act. He was granted bail and appeared in court in Dundalk in August. He pleaded guilty to unlawful assembly, and was fined IR£17,500 - a small fortune back in them days, enough to buy a small house.

Not surprised many Northerners think the "Free State" as they called it was extremely one sided. If you want to know what a cross border "attack" was, there were an awful lot more in those day of the eighties, and in the eighties I think they all (of the ones resulting in injury / death) went in the same direction.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462243#Comment_120462243

Dublin, Monaghan, Belturbet, Clones, etc were all 'attacked'.

Robinson knew what he was doing, terrorising a small village. The implication was clear at the time if they din't get their way. Same as they are doing now - speaking with forked tongues and insinuating what will happen if they don't get their way again.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462243#Comment_120462243

So you are telling us that you see nothing wrong with loyalist thugs, including Peter Robinson, coming to rural RoI towns to cause damage and spread fear because of their opposition to an treaty that was intended to bring about peace?

Edit: you also appear to have no interest in seeing how the DUP are currently working alongside terrorist groups in trying to undermine peace in NI.

And yet you continue to bang on about nationalist terrorist stuff.

Do you not see your hypocrisy?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462198#Comment_120462198

I think this should be carefully filed away and observed in all it's manifestations.

I agree and in this spirit, I presume nationalists/ republicans should be content to see members of the RIC of over a century ago, officially remembered and commemorated for their service to the people of Ireland.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462645#Comment_120462645

No, I wouldn’t agree that it respectful to give them an official commemoration just as I wouldn’t be in favour of official commemorations for the combatants in the most recent conflict/war.

It hurts a lot of victims to see British soldiers honoured for instance or the likes of Arlene Foster being given a peace award, when she left a party to join another who fought a peace agreement and would to this day destroy it, if they could.

By all means, the communities they fought for can hold their own events in a respectful way to remember their dead.

The RIC were enemies of this state and would have destroyed if they too could have.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461963#Comment_120461963

I have no idea what or who Paisley's 'Third Force' were involved in - I think maybe the Red Hand Commandoes or the UVF were other nom de guerre used by Ulster terrorists related to or like minded to this third force, however it is only a vague memory and may be completely wrong. Obviously, none of them openly declared such association.

I have no idea concerning SF, MLMcD or MO'N, what they do or should do. Nor do I have any idea about Sammy Wilson, Ian Paisley or JD. I do not waste my time even considering them. A plague on them all.

I do not agree with this glorifying those who took an active part in the troubles - from either side.

I think that the IRA and SF did more harm than good if their aim was to achieve a United Ireland.

However Donaldson, Wilson and Paisley are doing their utmost to harm the Union, and give more and more reason to those in NI the opportunity to look at the benefit of living in a calm and forward looking United Ireland - should it be offered by a border poll.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461599#Comment_120461599

Biden is proud of his Irish heritage, but is is an American and works for the good of all the people of the America in an American government.

Downcow et al refuse to work in an Irish government for all the people for Ireland and advocate that they should seize part of the country for their own use.

pixelburp

Just to continue itemising the real-world problems with a single, belligerent party stymying forward momentum of normal, non sectarian operation of NI politics: the All Island Rail Review is stuck in limbo because it requires approval by Belfast & Dublin - but of course, Stormont is closed (bar the payroll department no doubt) so the Review remain in consultation purgatory.

The review itself is interesting, especially for its recommendation to restore some of the old regional railways, especially those formerly earmarked to become "greenways", an idea that IMO only has merit on paper. Included in this and related to NI was the proposal to reconnect Donegal to Derry. I don't pretend to be a Transportation wonk, but an extensive, efficient and people-friendly train service is becoming more and more an obvious path as the country grows, and our environmental responsibilities increase.

Uh, mind you. given the people we're talking about WRT NI politics, perhaps further infrastructural connectivity between the two states is precisely the kind of thing they want to avoid, not increase.

https://www.thejournal.ie/rail-review-delay-6036496-Apr2023/