Brexit Impact on Northern Ireland

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120450365#Comment_120450365

You say "the problem Unionism has is that they are the political entity stoking tensions and insinuating that their will be a violent price to pay if they don't get their way.". You must be joking. You are always demonising one side without looking at your own side. For example, Nationalists were insinuating several years ago there would be violence / a violent price to pay if there was a customs office located along the border. And I seem to remember a number of serious attacks on the psni in recent years, these were carried out by Republicans, not Loyalists. And the chanting of a slogan to glofifty the terrorists (Uh ah up the RA ) was done by the football team of which country?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451137#Comment_120451137

For example, Nationalists were insinuating several years ago there would be violence / a violent price to pay if there was a customs office located along the border. 

Are you sure you're not confiusing comments made by An Taoiseach and also the PSNI over what is a strong possibility if there were a hard border as a result of Brexit? This would be as a result of police and subsequently military protection required to protect the posts, all initially stemming from vandalism.

But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451137#Comment_120451137

There is no nationalist ‘political entity’ (i.e. democratically elected to the executive) stoking tensions over the protocol.

The DUP/TUV are, by refusing to condemn overt threats from Loyalists, actual violence by loyalists, and even inventing threats against border officials as Poots did.

Neither is politically elected nationalism threatening TDs and ministers from the south if they go north. Groups that Unionism is cheerfully consulting, are. The ‘war talk’ of political unionism also needs to stop if anyone is going to take them as genuine democrats.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451153#Comment_120451153

I think in that era (2019 etc ) many saw the actions of certain republicans such as the pipe bomb explosion in south Armagh and the car bomb which went off in Derry are clear signals there would be a return to violence in Northern Ireland if there is any infrastructure installed on the border.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/18/hard-border-in-ireland-would-trigger-return-to-violence-says-report

Any attacks on customs posts would likely have been carried out by Republicans, not by the Taoiseach and not by the PSNI. Thats is the reality of it. And as someone said, if there were customs posts, the police would probably have had to try to protect the customs posts but then the army would have had to try to protect the police, and so on. Nobody wanted that.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451222#Comment_120451222

ok let's go back a bit. You stated the following:

For example, Nationalists were insinuating several years ago there would be violence / a violent price to pay if there was a customs office located along the border. 

Now you've replied without anything to back up what you previously stated but instead waffle on about how if there were violence, it wouldn't be caused by An Taoiseach or the PSNI (which I never suggested).

Now I'll put on my mod hat here and say:

mod: You have an axe to grind against nationalism and SF. That's fine but stop trying to derail threads with your bias. I'm offering this advice as your very last warning before I take effective action.

retalivity

In news that will surprise absolutely nobody (Except maybe the DUP), more than half of people in GB really don't care about NI and would gladly be rid of it

https://twitter.com/UTVNews/status/1644287792640344064

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452264#Comment_120452264

Remarkable wishful thinking in that post. Wonderful what changing ‘or’ to ‘and’ does for your fantasy.

I actually a very very pleased with those results.

“While 40% said they would prefer it to stay part of the UK, 33% said they did not mind either way and 17% said they would prefer Northern Ireland to break away.”

spin it how you like but more than twice as many Brits want ni to stay in the fold than want it to leave. That is a stunning result when you think of the **** GB has taken because of OWC being part of Uk. They have had their soldiers murdered, their cities bombed, the pub-goers massacred. They commit £billions annually, been blackmailed by the DUP and dragged through European courts. And still only 17% want rid of the problem. When you consider how many of Irish decent live there and how many Scottish independents, etc , you’d have to think these figures cannot be correct. I would have expected 50%+ to want us to disappear.

thanks for the post. I have forwarded the link on to unionist friends to cheer up their Friday night. We needed that after a tough month

votecounts

Defending gay people while openly supporting the dup, the most homophobic party 8n western europe, strange logic

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452264#Comment_120452264

Perilous situation really. Tories would not lose any votes calling a border poll based on those figures.

Means they can tell Unionism to go hang too, which is what happened in the 515 - 29 vote.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452264#Comment_120452264

I see the Newsletter also interpret the poll you refer to as excellent news. Those in gb wanting OWC to remain part of the union has almost doubled in the 25 years since gfa.

unionist politicians and leaders have done us a serious disservice over that same period. They have done all they can to shot ourselves in the foot. And still the union is strong. Little support in roi for a Ui. Growing support in the middle ground in ni and a growing affection and recognition for Northern Ireland. And now evidence that we have growing support in gb. Hard to see where a Ui will ever con from. Can you imagine the position had we not been shooting ourselves in the feet.

thsnks again for highlighting that good news

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453788#Comment_120453788

The Newsletter - an overtly Unionist newspaper just extracted the 'good bits' out of that poll.

'Growing support' that sees a UI in 10 years?

50% couldn't care less?

Of course it's all mirrored in how the Tories routinely treat you.

Now tripping over themselves to shoot themselves in the foot again.

https://twitter.com/EamonnMallie/status/1644420913453051904

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453831#Comment_120453831

Francie there is no denying it’s full of ‘good bits’. It’s a stunning result. Twice as many people dotted around Leeds, London, Exeter, etc want ni to stay as to go. You shone have a wee duke at some other polls. It appears OWC is held in greater affection in England that roi. Greater support for a union with OWC in kings Lyn than Cork.

Its made my Easter weekend.

Spin away all you wish. I would just ask one thing of you all, hold the posts until tonight till I get the beer and popcorn in.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454131#Comment_120454131

Problem for you is they see you in a UI in 10 years. Even more in 20 years.

The beer always runs out.

Enjoy.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454131#Comment_120454131

The opening part of the article linked above;

A third of people in Great Britain would not mind Northern Ireland leaving the UK, while another 17% would prefer if NI left.

A fifth believe it will no longer be part of the union in 10 years from now, new research suggests.

Some 39% of those surveyed in England, Scotland and Wales said they think Northern Ireland breaking away from the UK and uniting with the Republic of Ireland "would not make much difference" to the remaining three nations.

So most Brits wouldn't mind or would prefer if NI left the Union. Two fifths think it "would not make much difference" to the remaining UK while 13% said England, Scotland and Wales would be better off. If these results made your weekend then I can only assume that you started on something harder before you move to beer tonight.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454169#Comment_120454169

Only a fifth of the people in Britain see N Ireland being in a UI in 10 years. Not much more than that in 20 years.

Just goes to show that most people are realistic enough to realise it is as far away now as 30, 40, 50 years ago.

There is not going to be a U.I., at least not in our lifetime.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454269#Comment_120454269

If you are relying on knowledge about NI in Britain to save the union then good luck with that.

ancapailldorcha

I can't see how Brexit doesn't end up in a united Ireland. The English simply don't care. They're too busy chiselling away at the foundations of their vaunted union. Sturgeon's standing down is more of a loss of momentum for separatism than it is a boon for unionism. I doubt many here know what the NI abbreviation refers to.

Unionism is finished in NI. There is no Unionist culture, no future Unionist demographic beyond a perpetually toxic, truculent minority and nobody outside the island of Ireland who gives a single sh*te about Jeffrey and the lads.

Face it, the only thing that holds NI to GB is the logistical nightmare of unification. That's it.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454189#Comment_120454189

It's almost as if Unionism, desperate for some good news, saw a + and entered fantasyland.

Ben Lowry at the Newsletter articulating the insecurity that underscores Unionism 25 years after the GFA.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454392#Comment_120454392

You can see it all in the faces of the politicians themselves. SF, Alliance have young faces, often female, talking the politics of necessity and the kitchen table ... The DUP are a series of old, grey faces talking the politics of yesterday.

Fear of dem uns no doubt is keeping them in the mix but the absence of new blood in mainstream Unionism is stark - and deeply worrying, really. Irish unionists are Irish, and I'd hate to see that community shrivel and harden, nowhere to turn except extremists and dinosaurs.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454434#Comment_120454434

Great to hear your say that Irish unionists are Irish, and you'd " hate to see that community shrivel ", because there are other republicans who would applaud it when the pira did their best to make that community shrivel, by murdering innocent unionist politicians like James Stronge MP, Robert Bradford MP, Edgar Graham, John Barnhill etc. And to this day have not condemned it.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454434#Comment_120454434

Patronising nonsense. I would agree though that the dup are damaged, and hopefully on the decline. The conundrum for republicans is that dup decline long term strengthens the union long term

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454623#Comment_120454623

Patronising who and how? Irish unionism's largest political outlet is a prejudiced, retrograde party you yourself acknowledged as thus, and repeatedly admitted voting for despite this. All I'm doing is holding a mirror up to your own views. The DUP cling to relevancy precisely because of your vote. Patronise yourself. Spare the victim complex for 5 minutes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454611#Comment_120454611

Neither here nor there, and I'm not a Republican.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454392#Comment_120454392

Both your paragraphs are music to my ears, although you exaggerate a tad.

English not caring about ni staying in the union was I thought the best I could hope for (this poll says otherwise) But English not caring is fine. Republicans have is the gfa and so the English won’t decide. If I am honest I care little if the Shetland islands leave Uk, indeed if the people of any region of Uk vote to leave then I wish them well and I’d want us to help them leave and be great neighbours when the do. So why would English take some different position on OWC.

now as for your nonsense about culture, just watch on Monday if you want to see unionist culture (although that’s not what I would call it). But I agree with you in that there is a very strong NI culture and identity flourishing in last couple of decades. This is the single greatest threat to the republican fantasy project. NI has been an entity for over 100 years and my goodness you would know it

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454656#Comment_120454656

Did you read the post you quoted?

There is no such thing as unionist culture. I grew up in a staunch unionist Protestant household so I know what I'm on about. Nationalists can draw upon a rich cultural heritage. Instead of building one for themselves, unionists decided to drink cultural bleach and destroy that which ties them to Britain. If Brexit is this century's Suez, the DUP are the Charge of the Lightweight Brigade.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454685#Comment_120454685

Interesting you claim "There is no such thing as unionist culture". and that "Nationalists can draw upon a rich cultural heritage".

Many would disagree with you. In any case, if there was a United Ireland it is quite clear that unionists and their culture would be out like a shot, and that Republicans only allow their own culture. Assimilate or leave.

It could take a long time to see what effect Brexit has on the UK. It could well turn out to have been the correct course of action yet.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454735#Comment_120454735

They can disagree all they want but until I see an actual argument to the contrary, I'll stick to my guns. I come from this demographic and I am very familiar with it.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454735#Comment_120454735

Maybe describe some of this rich unionist culture for us then.

I presume you are aware that there are orange parades in the Republic. There may be little celebrated for unionism but there isn't anything in place to stop them.

Please tell us all of some of the cultural events that would be ended in a UI.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454643#Comment_120454643

Patronising, as I don’t often lecture nationalists on who they vote for. It’s all about where you are looking from. My community find it fairly shocking that you elect a party that says there was no alternative to murdering children and have elected representatives who admit to taking part in the carnage. Need I say anymore

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454685#Comment_120454685

Can you share with us some aspects of this rich Nationalist cultural heritage?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454890#Comment_120454890

The thing with democracy is that it always results in the government that people deserve. The unionist community voted for the DUP repeatedly. This is the result.