Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

growleaves

spring lane jack wrote: »

I'm calling bull**** on this, My friend has been attending AA meetings in person all through this Corona era. What's wrong with you that you feel the need to come on here and lie ?

I read that AA meetings had been dis-allowed. Perhaps it differs depending on where you are. They are definitely cancelled in at least parts of the UK

Now the fact that I am partially mistaken doesn't mean that I'm a liar so there's no need to go off on one like 'Where do you find the nerve' etc.

growleaves

Penfailed wrote: »

So AA meetings aren't illegal in the UK and Ireland then. That's all you had to say.

You are not meeting with somebody if you don't meet them.

Looking at life through a screen isn't experiencing life.

Boggles

growleaves wrote: »

You are not meeting with somebody if you don't meet them.

Looking at life through a screen isn't experiencing life.

Addiction services and meetings went online years ago and have been deemed a great success.

growleaves

Boggles wrote: »

Addiction services and meetings went online years ago and have been deemed a great success.

I think you mean one-on-ones. A group meeting, with the confessional aspect that entails, not online before March 2020 as far as I'm aware (qualifying this since I've been wrong before).

dalyboy

VonLuck wrote: »

What about the other side of the argument? What about the families that have lost loved ones because of Covid? I'm not saying that things aren't tough for you right now, and for many, but are these struggles greater than the loss of a loved one?

Things will return back to normal for you and your family, but not for the people who have unfortunately died as a result of Covid.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/extra.ie/2018/02/09/news/irish-news/number-flu-deaths-far-season-doubles-70/amp

My maternal grandmother died in 2018 in the middle of the worst influenza period recorded in years. Flu was the “cause” of her death but she was 100 years old the day of her death.

My own mother was extremely upset and so was the rest of the family. However nobody was blaming any of the rest of the family / friends / care staff nurses etc that possibly infected her with flu before she passed.
It was her time and that was that.

Amazingly nobody was asking for swathes of our industrial and basic infrastructure to be shut down resulting in unimaginable damage to the fabric of our social and economic existence.

Such action would have been considered unbalanced and disproportionate to the issue in hand.

The link above is from that period. It was 36 months ago NOT 36 years ago.
How we have managed to shift from logical action of then to now is beyond my ability to work out.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Virtuality isn't the same thing though.

Think of it like this: there are horizontal and vertical axes to life.

The horizontal is everything material, tangible and quantifiable.

The vertical is everything non-material (like the love you feel for a family member), intangible and incapable of being captured by positivism.

We're basically close to denying that the vertical axis of life exists, or at least we're constantly trivialising it.

Like when people keep saying there is no downside to wearing of masks. Well of course there is - seeing somebody's face affects you a lot and their face and especially their eyes tell you a lot about the person. But by the standards of our materialist reductionist obsession, there is no immediate material reason to need to see a person's face so it gets downgraded.

Everything human is being downgraded in favour of pure abstraction. This is happening across the board.

Believe it or not Grow - these things get to everyone at times. Last Friday, I really felt the need to go out with my family and have a meal, not a takeout. It wasn't a want, more of an intangible desire to live a normal life. And not been able to caused real angst. That feeling however does not preclude some from seeing the utility and function of ongoing restrictions.

Its the same with schools. Home school is next to useless for the development of younger children especially. I really want them back in school for their benefit. When I see that they are talking maybe about possibly having special needs education back by the 22nd and the rest, well who knows, my heart sinks. But I also understand that opening schools tomorrow would be a disaster and its probably 2 weeks before we will know that's is a real option. Doesn't mean I don't really want my kids to be able to go to school tomorrow

Kunta Kinte

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

So Austria and Italy relaxing restrictions.

Hopefully as this list grows, and it will, pressure will build on the government to reopen sooner. Currently we seem to have the most cautious reopening plans in Europe.

If there is another surge in cases in those countries as a result it could be very short lived.

WicklaBlaa

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

So Austria and Italy relaxing restrictions.

Hopefully as this list grows, and it will, pressure will build on the government to reopen sooner. Currently we seem to have the most cautious reopening plans in Europe.

switching to a nighttime curfew

Only pupils who have been tested will be allowed to attend lessons

.

Shops’ customers will have to wear FFP2 face masks

Penfailed

growleaves wrote: »

You are not meeting with somebody if you don't meet them.

Looking at life through a screen isn't experiencing life.

So the minutes of the meeting I had via MS Teams yesterday don't actually exist. Wow. I've no action points to worry about then. Nice one.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

You are not meeting with somebody if you don't meet them.

Looking at life through a screen isn't experiencing life.

What are our eyes but imperfect lenses complete with blindspots projected on to the screen of our mind resulting in regular misinterpretations of reality. A lot like the restrictions thread really

Multipass

growleaves wrote: »

You are not meeting with somebody if you don't meet them.

Looking at life through a screen isn't experiencing life.

Agreed, I’ve been having to have an essential service over zoom - it’s absolutely horrendous, the sense of disconnection and loneliness. That minute after the session has closed is really difficult.

WicklaBlaa

Deleted User wrote: »

.

ITALY - Italy on Monday relaxed coronavirus restrictions in most of its regions, allowing greater freedom to travel and the daytime reopening of bars, restaurants and museums.

AUSTRIA - "schools, museums and shops set to reopen"
"Services such as hairdressers and beauticians will also be allowed to reopen"
"Meetings of people from more than two households will once again be allowed "

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

So the minutes of the meeting I had via MS Teams yesterday don't actually exist. Wow. I've no action points to worry about then. Nice one.

Sorry, the WiFi is playing up, I missed that action

WicklaBlaa

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

If there is another surge in cases in those countries as a result it could be very short lived.

With vulnerable people being vaccinated at the same time, a rise in cases may not mean increased pressure on hospitals.

Time will tell.

WicklaBlaa

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

ITALY - Italy on Monday relaxed coronavirus restrictions in most of its regions, allowing greater freedom to travel and the daytime reopening of bars, restaurants and museums.

AUSTRIA - "schools, museums and shops set to reopen"
"Services such as hairdressers and beauticians will also be allowed to reopen"
"Meetings of people from more than two households will once again be allowed "

Austria:
“Epidemiologically the issue is clear. The safest course would be to remain in lockdown,” Chancellor Sebastian Kurz told a news conference

growleaves

Penfailed wrote: »

So the minutes of the meeting I had via MS Teams yesterday don't actually exist. Wow. I've no action points to worry about then. Nice one.

You spoke to some people via teleconferencing, you didn't 'meet' them - even though the word 'meeting' was assigned to this teleconferencing session.

The above might sound really pedantic but it seems people are confusing different levels of reality now. If you spend three months sitting in a room by yourself talking to people on the phone and via Zoom you have just spent three months alone. You have communicated with people on the outside but you have not ceased to be alone.

Good luck with your action points, whatever that is

Penfailed

growleaves wrote: »

You spoke to some people via teleconferencing, you didn't 'meet' them - even though the word 'meeting' was assigned to this teleconferencing session.

The above might sound really pedantic but it seems people are confusing different levels of reality now. If you spend three months sitting in a room by yourself talking to people on the phone and via Zoom you have just spent three months alone. You have communicated with people on the outside but you have not ceased to be alone.

Good luck with your action points, whatever that is

Regarding the emboldened...yes, it does...but then, I'm quite pedantic too at times

Boggles

growleaves wrote: »

The above might sound really pedantic

Probably, you also sound like you are posting from 1997.

Things have moved on and have to done to a large degree pre-pandemic.

WicklaBlaa

Deleted User wrote: »

Austria:
“Epidemiologically the issue is clear. The safest course would be to remain in lockdown,” Chancellor Sebastian Kurz told a news conference

Epidemiologically yes. But it's been nearly a year now and governments need to fully consider all societal issues incl. mental health and economy.

It looks like Ireland will be the last country left in lockdown after being subjected to the longest lockdowns in Europe already.

average_runner

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

Epidemiologically yes. But it's been nearly a year now and governments need to fully consider all societal issues incl. mental health and economy.

It looks like Ireland will be the last country left in lockdown after being subjected to the longest lockdowns in Europe already.

UK never left lockdown, got to a lower tier though.
Alot of countries never left lockdown

ypres5

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

If there is another surge in cases in those countries as a result it could be very short lived.

fingers crossed kunta?

Penfailed

average_runner wrote: »

UK never left lockdown, got to a lower tier though.
Alot of countries never left lockdown

As demonstrated lots of times in this thread, that depends on ones definition of 'lockdown'.

WicklaBlaa

Just think it's important to keep note of all the other countries reopening (cautiously to be fair).

Our numbers are coming down and come 5 March with vaccinations of vulnerable well underway, there should be some political will to reopen.

PTH2009

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

Our numbers are coming down and come 5 March with vaccinations of vulnerable well underway, there should be some political will to reopen.

We were told already it won't be a major reopening of the economy from the 5th March here in Ireland

Whiplash85

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

Just think it's important to keep note of all the other countries reopening (cautiously to be fair).

Our numbers are coming down and come 5 March with vaccinations of vulnerable well underway, there should be some political will to reopen.

Yes you are right. But I just worry that government are still left reeling after media portrayed them as in defiance of NPHET over Christmas. Any divergence from NPHET guidelines this time around will be met with same vitriol. They are already talking about a very slow reopening. I hope we are not the laggards of Europe again but suspect we will be.

average_runner

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

Just think it's important to keep note of all the other countries reopening (cautiously to be fair).

Our numbers are coming down and come 5 March with vaccinations of vulnerable well underway, there should be some political will to reopen.

Who is reopening right now?
South Africa have banned alcohol sales.
UK are doing door to door testing, still not sure when they will open and have more vaccinated than us.




My opinion you will see the following:

We will reopen the schools first.

Shops will open after Paddys weekend.
Travel outside 5k will be lifted but small clusters

Sport for kids will hopefully be back by start of April.
May restaurants/hotels will open along with campsites etc
July/August pubs will open with limited capacity at first

WicklaBlaa

PTH2009 wrote: »

We were told already it won't be a major reopening of the economy from the 5th March here in Ireland

Not a major reopening. A cautious reopening like what is happening in Austria and Italy right now.

It's 4 and a half weeks a way and our numbers are doing really well.

WicklaBlaa

average_runner wrote: »

Who is reopening right now?
South Africa have banned alcohol sales.
UK are doing door to door testing, still not sure when they will open and have more vaccinated than us.

See links below:

ITALY - Italy on Monday relaxed coronavirus restrictions in most of its regions, allowing greater freedom to travel and the daytime reopening of bars, restaurants and museums.

AUSTRIA - "schools, museums and shops set to reopen"
"Services such as hairdressers and beauticians will also be allowed to reopen"
"Meetings of people from more than two households will once again be allowed "

WicklaBlaa

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Yes you are right. But I just worry that government are still left reeling after media portrayed them as in defiance of NPHET over Christmas. Any divergence from NPHET guidelines this time around will be met with same vitriol. They are already talking about a very slow reopening. I hope we are not the laggards of Europe again but suspect we will be.

Hopefully as the rest of Europe reopens ahead of us, people will start to realise there is another way.

average_runner

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

Not a major reopening. A cautious reopening like what is happening in Austria and Italy right now.

It's 4 and a half weeks a way and our numbers are doing really well.

Our numbers are stalling though. When we get our numbers down to a similar percentage as Austria or Italy, we can start to reopen.

Schools start next week here for special needs