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Where do we go from here?

  • 17-01-2021 2:38pm
    #1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    First off, and i must stress, this is NOT a political thread nor debate. The Off Topic thread is the place for that.

    This is an opinion and suggestion thread.

    With the seemingly never-ending and increased "attacks" on all shooting sports, not just here at home, but globally are we on the loosing end of a very long battle or is there hope for the sport?

    Between gun bans, mag bans, social media bans on free speech of hunting, the lead ban, and of course public opinion is the sport looking at a slow death of a thousand cuts?

    If so what can we do to try stop it and even turn it around.

    If not then what can be done to increase the population of the shooting community and finally shed ourselves of the "secrecy" our sport is sometimes forced to implement.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone
    Registered User


    What can you do in fairness. As i have said before, like the eu lead ban, these things have already been decided by the time we hear of them, you can object all you want to, but its a done deal.

    Same when shortarse banned the pistols, all we could do was run around like headless chickens and appeal to him to let us keep our .22's. He didn't have to listen to us, no lost votes to him if he did ban the lot.

    Now its this green/leftie thing that "All guns are bad M'KAY", which is not just here but world wide. Wait til Biden starts banning and our lot of twits want to kiss his boots and copy him. :rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    Ah, come on man (see what i did there :D ). First post and already biden creeps in. This is not a political thread and while there is an element of politics that must accompany this debate its not meant as a moaning thread for the current political climate.

    For example.

    Gun clubs. There has and is a limit of the number of members. I know this is due to factors such as surrounding clubs, area of lands, game availability, etc. but how many times do we get lads asking how to join because a club won't take on new members? Is there someway to increase club members without sacrificing the quality of shooting or perhaps a "reserve" of members that have limited shooting at a reduced fee and are first to be called up when a spot becomes available? How can expect to bring the next generation in when so much is against them. We all started somewhere and some of us had to work for years to get started, but that is not a rite of passage and we can make it easier for the next generation by cutting out the wait times, and hoops that need jumping through. Doesn't have to be a cakewalk, just a little easier for them.

    Ranges have no limits other than capacity. The Midlands for example can accommodate hundreds of shooters all at once, but its the capacity of the roads, parking and the ranges that limit their ability to hundreds of members instead of thousands. Smaller ranges would be even more susceptible to this with physically smaller ranges and smaller lands to shoot on.

    In terms of public opinion how about things like public days. Specifically for people that have never shot. If it gets new members then brilliant but the purpose could be to introduce people to the sport of shooting in a controlled environment and alleviate their fears and misconceptions surrounding firearms. This can happen on ranges and with club (gun club) days too.

    Still on the public opinion aspect what about social media. Its a useful tool but we're too secretive, and with good reason, about our sport. We're legal in what we do but we can do more. Stop posting pictures of overly "gruesome" shots. I hunt and some of the pictures i see make me wonder why anyone would post such a thing. This imagery will never be able to be explained to those not used to hunting and visuals will be remembered quicker than a good speech.

    With regards to the political aspect the infighting within our own groups makes co-operation harder but these groups have no power unless we give it to them and unlike political parties we have direct access to them. If the "head table" don't do what the majority want or act outside the remit of the sport/group they're in then remove them and start again.

    This has to lead to better co-operation and when/where necessary unity to combat collective issues that will affect all disciplines regardless of whether or not the majority pursue it. IOW Gallery should be supported by F-Class, Sporting rifle, clay guys, and pistol shooters and any combination of that you can think off. IOW an attack on any aspect of the sport is an attack on the whole community. If we speak with a unified voice, however fanciful that may sound, we stand a better chance.

    We also need to include more "outside" groups. IFA has a hit and miss history and have gone their own way form time to time but we as a community outnumber them by over 2 to 1 so imagine the power we have if we work together. Not just one particular groups but others too. Fishing is considered as much a "bloodsport" as any and they suffer the same crap we do. Surely we can support them and them us?

    So what suggestions have people or is this all too much pie in the sky stuff? Should we sit back, continue to bemoan all the restrictions, changes and attacks on our sport, but ultimately accept them through indifference/apathy? If so then i'd suggest selling what you have now and beating the "rush".

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    Was writing this while Cass has replied to some of my points already. The joys of multi finger typing eh Cass?

    We can do PLENTY!
    Make a new years resolution[Covid permitting] to try and get ONE other person to try shooting this year.Don't have to get them signed up with a license,but get them out to at least try it. Double points if you can get the untapped market here namely WOMEN out shooting.
    Gangster rep if you get one of them out signed up and hunting as well.
    The more people we recruit to the sport the better.
    It becomes a cascading effect, if you have one person who likes it, they will recruit another, who recruits another and so on. Strangely, this is working in the UK, where there has been despite the Govt's efforts, an increase in license holders to own firearms, due to this tactic.

    Stop supporting the Fudds in our organisations and those that continuously undermine us on our side. We have seen this enough times in Ireland with groups like SCOVI, the deer organisation that has been mission creeping for the last decade doing us damage. Take your money and membership and walk away from toxic groups, clubs and individuals. The time for infighting and saying another man's sport is your poison is now over.
    We are GUNOWNERS first and are seen as that by antis and Govt. They giveth not a F^^K what you use the gun for in what discipline. ALL GUNS MUST BE BANNED! is their logic and mantra and plan. Ditto the govts of the West it seems.
    Bur Grizzly" you say.."A lot of these groups are run by volunteers who give up their time and do this for no reward. Who will run them then?" Indeed they do and those that do so without an agenda are exemplary...However, there are those who think their positions as volunteers gives them autocratic powers and a seat for life on some committees and boards etc. I'm looking particularly at places where lots make their first contacts with the sport on a parish level. Some "good ol boys pheasant and pub club" that won't take on anyone unless they are from the parish for 4 generations is utterly detrimental and killing new members.

    We need to up our game, trim off a lot of deadwood, dross and fat in our organisations and get fighting fit and literally do away with this "Ah sure nuthin we can do "attitude. This goes too for our national prgs, they need to up their games a lot. IE the mag ban 2019. This was NRPAI's job...Still awaiting a statement from them on this occurrence for an example.:rolleyes: Yet I as a single individual was telling all of you that this mag and rifle ban was coming here on Boards...Do people that we pay money thru our club memberships that support these over groups not take this stuff on board?

    We saw this same thing happen in 2006. There were warning blips on the radar that no one took seriously here, and we suffered the equivalency of Pearl harbour because of it! It has never been answered as to wHY these warnings were not taken seriously?

    QUIT talking to the media!
    We have had two hatchet jobs done to us by RTE and made a complete shambles of the last with the pheasant shooting in COVID lockdown.Could we play to the stereotype any better for them in that interview?

    We need to start taking the role of media PR man /woman[prefably] these days] a lot more seriously than to be thinking it is a place for someone to be on the committee. It is now a role that needs to be handled by someone who is media savvy and trained as to how the media works, and does not see itas some free advertising for their organisation or gun store either on TV.
    We need to play the media at their own game, that's why having a woman or ethnically diverse/trans/disabled person as a PR official is a gold.It plays against the stereotype of a bit of gammon in a quilted vest and peaked cap harrumphing on about "Muh shooting sports"

    Dismiss the "look at America!" argument at every turn.It's a fallacious bit of whataboutery that goes nowhere.
    Just point out it is a ridiculous argument to compare a country with a constitutional right and 300 million with now well North of 46% of the worlds REGISTERED firearms in private ownership, and where a country gunshop might have a bigger stock of Irelands entire privately owned handguns and "assault rifles".To a country of 4 million +/- with no constitutional right to own arms.Is like comparing a dormouse to a blue whale. And if they want to try comparing like and like.
    Our own Republic Vs the North is a more rational example of failed gun laws vs by EU standards pretty liberal gun laws.
    In fact as a gun owner and shooter of whatever. Can you rattle off 10 defensive arguments to justify your ownership and sport in a conversation?

    Bone up on the firearms law!
    Yes, you have a duty to yourself and others to know the law as much as possible on firearms in Ireland. Why? So you won't be steamrollered by those in authority that don't know it and are going and try to use the weight of their badge and authority to push you down. Not to mind to know what your "rights" are in these circumstances. Still amazing how many people still accept this "application was lost" excuse accept and say nothing about it. Sounding educated on a topic and authoratative can also count alot in situations like these.


    As Jordan Peterson said "We need to go tidy our own rooms first. Then we can start sorting out the Worlds problems"

    To conclude...
    Picture this like an ant carrying a grain of sand ...One ant carrying a grain of sand doesn't achieve much, but when half a million of his pals are doing the same thing in the same direction. They can build colossal works of nature both above and below ground! Be a shooting ant!:)

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone
    Registered User


    Yes i found it difficult to get into a game club, i gave up in fact. I have seen people bringing young people to ranges and gun clubs. The kids were expecting something like practical shooting, and were disappointed to be shooting paper targets at 25m with a .22 or air rifle. Most were simply bored stiff and you never see them again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭ Peppa Cig
    Registered User


    You cannot defeat the rate of growth of the leftie, snowflake, tinted glasses masses.

    It is a contagious norm. Much more contagious than e.g. CV19.

    Those in power will appeal to the masses to remain in power.

    We are on borrowed time.

    I sound like an old grump but I’m not. I just have an opinion of what’s coming fast down the tracks. I don’t like what I’m seeing and hearing.

    Enjoy it while you can.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    The joys of multi finger typing eh Cass?

    You:


    tenor.gif?itemid=9186182


    Me :

    giphy.gif





    :D:D:D:D:D

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone
    Registered User


    Kermit on the speed again.......................


  • Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭ Peppa Cig
    Registered User


    tudderone wrote: »
    Kermit on the speed again.......................

    Kermit must be on something looking at all the threads he has just started/replied to - ha


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone
    Registered User


    Peppa Cig wrote: »
    You cannot defeat the rate of growth of the leftie, snowflake, tinted glasses masses.

    It is a contagious norm. Much more contagious than e.g. CV19.

    Those in power will appeal to the masses to remain in power.

    We are on borrowed time.

    I sound like an old grump but I’m not. I just have an opinion of what’s coming fast down the tracks. I don’t like what I’m seeing and hearing.

    Enjoy it while you can.


    You cannot defeat the rate of growth of the leftie, snowflake, tinted glasses masses, who hold strong opinions on topics they don't know the first thing about. They hold opinions they are told to hold.


  • Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭ Peppa Cig
    Registered User


    tudderone wrote: »
    You cannot defeat the rate of growth of the leftie, snowflake, tinted glasses masses, who hold strong opinions on topics they don't know the first thing about. They hold opinions they are told to hold.

    The worrying thing is it is becoming inter-generational for those with access to the defacto influence of social media.

    Lads that were once sound are slowly becoming “victims”.

    #lemmings #sheep (*note the social media influence).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone
    Registered User


    Yup, facts are not as important as being morally right :rolleyes:





  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    Peppa Cig wrote: »
    Kermit must be on something looking at all the threads he has just started/replied to - ha
    There is too much posting in the off topic thread and we're getting away from the reason for the forum, or should i say we've being slowly drifting that way for some time and i want to get back to things that matter and that is why i've bumped some threads and started another.

    Its the same thing in this thread. Within a post, and now once again with the last few, we're going into the left is bad m'kay. I don't want to hear anymore of that noise, i really cannot take it. Its why i ask once again that we don't turn this into a "left v right" thread.
    Peppa Cig wrote: »
    We are on borrowed time.

    I sound like an old grump but I’m not. I just have an opinion of what’s coming fast down the tracks. I don’t like what I’m seeing and hearing.

    Enjoy it while you can.
    I am off the same opinion, to a degree.

    I cannot see how we're going to turn this around without first changing ourselves. By that i mean the groups that claim to represent us, but more importantly the apathy i see everyday within the shooting community.

    Ignoring those that destroy our sport while claiming to represent it, the PTB taking full advantage of that disharmony and the general apathy and moaning from the other 98%.

    We need ideas, practices and general information on an actual plan and not more bitching.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    tudderone wrote: »
    Yes i found it difficult to get into a game club, i gave up in fact. I have seen people bringing young people to ranges and gun clubs. The kids were expecting something like practical shooting, and were disappointed to be shooting paper targets at 25m with a .22 or air rifle. Most were simply bored stiff and you never see them again.

    Whose fault is that really? Of course, if you have been brought up on Medal of Honour and Vice city, that will be crap! So it will behove us to make it interesting for them, within all that we can do legally. Seen it happen in Dojos and martial arts too.Go too heavy on the formal and you'll bore the brjaysus out of any newbie.
    The local clubs. my idea would simply be, go find your own land to shoot on in the areas and start another club in the same parish. It will cause conflict, but then again, you are probably not the only one in the neighbourhood that has been refused or ignored. It might even stir the Gammons to start doing things if the membership is leaving for you...
    It is now at the point that everyone has to realise when you say "Somebody should do something about that!" Realise you are Somebody!!:pac:

    I will also lay this problem partly at the NARGCs door too. They sign up these organisations but do FAICS nothing to "quality control" the standard of the club...or whatever on a local level. Poor customer service is damaging to your name brand.
    Not a NARGC bash here these points... Just pointing out what needed some improvement.

    Nor are they that quick to respond to queries on setting up a club from my personal experience. Still waiting since Sept for them to respond to a query as to who their local club rep is in my area.

    A small thing in the big scheme of things, but it can show up an organisation as being sloppy on small things,what re they like with bigger things? Understandable,if the NARGC was on my level of a lad doing everything behind his laptop.but not if it is an est organisation with paid staff.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    Cass wrote: »
    T
    I cannot see how we're going to turn this around without first changing ourselves. By that i mean the groups that claim to represent us, but more importantly the apathy i see everyday within the shooting community.

    Ignoring those that destroy our sport while claiming to represent it, the PTB taking full advantage of that disharmony and the general apathy and moaning from the other 98%.

    We need ideas, practices and general information on an actual plan and not more bitching.


    Need to start with ourselves as well. We need to start "coming out of the closet" and point out this is a lifestyle choice and not a "hobby" and we have nothing to be ashamed of or owe anyone an explanation as to why we are this way, and We'd appreciate some "Tolerance and respect "as we are demanded to show others of alt lifestyles and multi genders.
    Start learning from our enemies tactics as well to fight them with their own weapons too.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭ civdef
    Registered User


    Within a post, and now once again with the last few, we're going into the left is bad m'kay.

    This +100. It's become very tiresome to read more & more stuff on many threads lately which feels like it's come off some American conservative forum.

    We're in a much different political climate here thank goodness - trying to use the same tactics as the US "gun community" is a recipe for disaster here. (It's a recipe for disaster for them too I reckon, but that's another debate).

    Shooters here need to concentrate on one thing above all. Don't be a dick. We should be trying to give a positive impression to outsiders where ever possible. That still isn't always the case.

    We'll never get most people interested in shooting or event to care much about it. What we don't want is the idea that shooters = dangerous or arseholes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭ Grolschevik
    Registered User


    I don't shoot, but I'd like to.
    Not owning property to bolt a safe to is my main issue. Renter.
    I'm a long-time lurker here, and I've learned a lot.
    I'm fully supportive of you guys and I'm far, far more left than the European average.
    Just thought I'd mention it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭ Munsterlad102
    Registered User


    Cass wrote: »
    First off, and i must stress, this is NOT a political thread nor debate. The Off Topic thread is the place for that.

    This is an opinion and suggestion thread.

    With the seemingly never-ending and increased "attacks" on all shooting sports, not just here at home, but globally are we on the loosing end of a very long battle or is there hope for the sport?

    Between gun bans, mag bans, social media bans on free speech of hunting, the lead ban, and of course public opinion is the sport looking at a slow death of a thousand cuts?

    If so what can we do to try stop it and even turn it around.

    If not then what can be done to increase the population of the shooting community and finally shed ourselves of the "secrecy" our sport is sometimes forced to implement.

    I think the best approach to this would be to essentially "mobilize" the shooting community and send waves of letters. The recent RTÉ ad where God was arrested (being a Waterford native I know the man playing God and where the video was filmed, down the road from my secondary school:D) and apparently there was public backlash from it. We should really take a leaf out of this book and use similar tactics. Actually getting the public to hear our message is essential so we should reach out to any newspaper or radio and talk to them about it. People generally like to hold on to simple messages so hammering home the practically non existent amount of legally held firearms being used in crimes, and how in the case the got handguns more or less banned, in a case of mistaken identity a young man lost his life then the government mistakenly blamed the shooting community. The irony of that situation should be driven home. Perhaps a point could be made that we're being scapegoated for the Gardaí's inability to control the flow of illegal guns into the country. A point should definitely be made on how difficult it is to actually get a firearm in Ireland, I know my local MEP Grace O'Sullivan wrote a hit piece on 14 year olds being able to get guns and using that as a Trojan horse to ban firearms, generally misrepresenting the actual situation. Ultimately it's a game of optics, we need to be seen to be sensible and honest when dealing with politicians and the public who know little about our firearm laws. Those are my thoughts anyway, feel free to critique them if you want.


  • Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭ kunekunesika
    Registered User


    I don't shoot, but I'd like to.
    Not owning property to bolt a safe to is my main issue. Renter.
    I'm a long-time lurker here, and I've learned a lot.
    I'm fully supportive of you guys and I'm far, far more left than the European average.
    Just thought I'd mention it.

    I lived in rental for many years, never was a problem. I can imagine rental agreements are stricter now, but wasn't an issue with officialdom. Always filled the holes in the wall and gave the room a bit of paint when finished up.
    Thanks for the support,
    You don't need permission from your landlord to keep a firearm, but it might go a bit smoother if you paint the safe in a nice magnolia.
    Good luck


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    Welcome!
    Your politics are of little interest to us here friend. You are a gun owner or want to be one, that's all that matters to us.:)

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    civdef wrote: »
    This +100. It's become very tiresome to read more & more stuff on many threads lately which feels like it's come off some American conservative forum.
    It has and still is, and i'm as much to blame for that as anyone. I'm fascinated by politics in some countries and let my enthusiasm run riot in the Off Topic thread.

    It's only recently, while trying to search for an old post, i realised how much crap i was posting that had nothing to do with anything in my life (i even said so in the posts, but failed to heed my own warning).

    As you said every thread turned into another discussion on Trump, biden, left, right and within a very short few posts it became a sub thread of the off topic one.

    Like you i'm tired of it and as i said in one of the posts now its all over there is no reason to continue to discuss the circus and we can get back to the business of Irish shooting sports.
    Shooters here need to concentrate on one thing above all. Don't be a dick. We should be trying to give a positive impression to outsiders where ever possible. That still isn't always the case.
    We're a clanish bunch no doubt and don't accept criticism easily if at all. Any comment, usually negative, is immediately met with cynicism and agression. Sometimes its warranted but not always and the beenfit of the doubt should be given to those wondering if they should post and that is where my concern stems from.

    Frankly i'll not loose sleep over anyone that is completely anti shooting not posting or not posting often but that clique attitude can put off new lads (and lassies) from posting here and i've been met with the same attitude on other forums (mostly car ones) even though i'm well seasoned i'm made feel like I am newbie and a hassle for posting.

    Time to change that because it wasn't always the case here and while arguments happen the forum was a much more open and inviting place. Back to basic methinks.
    We'll never get most people interested in shooting or event to care much about it. What we don't want is the idea that shooters = dangerous or arseholes.
    That was my thinking on the open/public days. Its not about membership or increasing our number, but to show the public we're ordinary people that use "unusual" tools for our sport. The best bit of shooting for me is the sh*te talk and craic at the days out or range days. There is a good enough community and a great social aspect which most people wouldn't associate to the sport so we can educate and show them.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭ Munsterlad102
    Registered User


    I don't shoot, but I'd like to.
    Not owning property to bolt a safe to is my main issue. Renter.
    I'm a long-time lurker here, and I've learned a lot.
    I'm fully supportive of you guys and I'm far, far more left than the European average.
    Just thought I'd mention it.

    You don't need a safe for a single non restricted shotgun but I'm not 100% sure about ammunition storage requirements so you might be stuck there. Some ranges provide storage facilities. I'd recommend going to your local range when Covid 19 restrictions are lifted.

    Far more left? Like communist or greens or social democrats, or in other words the people trying to ban firearms? I don't mean to be a dick, just asking, I mean Marx was pro gun.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone
    Registered User


    I don't shoot, but I'd like to.
    Not owning property to bolt a safe to is my main issue. Renter.
    I'm a long-time lurker here, and I've learned a lot.
    I'm fully supportive of you guys and I'm far, far more left than the European average.
    Just thought I'd mention it.


    If you want to get a shotgun or .22 rifle, then see what the local super wants in way of security. If its only a safe then your landlord might be ok with that. If you want to get involved, then go for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    I think the best approach to this would be to essentially "mobilize" the shooting community and send waves of letters. The recent RTÉ ad where God was arrested (being a Waterford native I know the man playing God and where the video was filmed, down the road from my secondary school:D) and apparently there was public backlash from it. We should really take a leaf out of this book and use similar tactics. Actually getting the public to hear our message is essential so we should reach out to any newspaper or radio and talk to them about it. People generally like to hold on to simple messages so hammering home the practically non existent amount of legally held firearms being used in crimes, and how in the case the got handguns more or less banned, in a case of mistaken identity a young man lost his life then the government mistakenly blamed the shooting community. The irony of that situation should be driven home. Perhaps a point could be made that we're being scapegoated for the Gardaí's inability to control the flow of illegal guns into the country. A point should definitely be made on how difficult it is to actually get a firearm in Ireland, I know my local MEP Grace O'Sullivan wrote a hit piece on 14 year olds being able to get guns and using that as a Trojan horse to ban firearms, generally misrepresenting the actual situation. Ultimately it's a game of optics, we need to be seen to be sensible and honest when dealing with politicians and the public who know little about our firearm laws. Those are my thoughts anyway, feel free to critique them if you want.

    You need to that sparingly and when it's relevant or a critical matter. Otherwise, you just end up looking like that fellah down in Callan who buys ink by the tanker load and is scribbling non-stop to the papers on nowadays any and all topics. Yeah,we have done this before and it worked when the liscense fee was going to be increased.We blizzaderd with emails the TDs and ol Fatty Harney was "alarmed" at the amount she recived against this increase.

    Then "I'll smoke where I want to! It's my right!".Deasey ran bawling to the press about how he was being "targeted by hate mail" from those nasty gun owners when he was egging on that nasty crippled insect from Louth, Ahern, about banning handguns in the Dail.:mad: So it has to be done right too.

    As to what an ex-surfer chick who thinks she is a hot Sht on all things NZ, as she was on a boat that had it's hull blown out 30 years ago in the harbour by idiot French intelligence operatives, isn't really the hill to die on.Same as that FF jackass who was braying on about banning the few semi-autos and handguns we have here in the Dail. Cass was right on that. Don't give these people oxygen in their outpourings or allow them to create a "Streisand effect".
    Plus these days E petitions is great for dumping an issue on someones door too.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone
    Registered User


    civdef wrote: »
    This +100. It's become very tiresome to read more & more stuff on many threads lately which feels like it's come off some American conservative forum.

    We're in a much different political climate here thank goodness - trying to use the same tactics as the US "gun community" is a recipe for disaster here. (It's a recipe for disaster for them too I reckon, but that's another debate).

    Shooters here need to concentrate on one thing above all. Don't be a dick. We should be trying to give a positive impression to outsiders where ever possible. That still isn't always the case.

    We'll never get most people interested in shooting or event to care much about it. What we don't want is the idea that shooters = dangerous or arseholes.

    The thing is we live in a globalised world, what happens in the USA or EU impacts us directly, If there is a mass shooting in America, we get the usual suspects here demanding things, Someone mentioned Grace O'Malley.

    As for being portrayed as dangerous or arseholes, we already are and were. Remember the RTE hatchet job on us ? Or any coverage of shooting sports in the papers, ever listen to the liveline moan-in show when they talk about us ?Its always negative and probably always will be.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    I think the best approach to this would be to essentially "mobilize" the shooting community and send waves of letters.
    That is the goal and this thread is not so much about ideas on how to do it, but how to get people mobilized.

    Anyone you speak to that has been involved in the "admin" side of a group, range, association, etc. will tell you the same thing. The 2% rule. 2% do the doing and the other 98% don't now or care. We need people, especially our own, to be more engaged if for no other reason than it'll stop nasty surprised when they wake up to find their firearm is now banned.
    Actually getting the public to hear our message is essential so we should reach out to any newspaper or radio and talk to them about it.
    Agreed and each association or group can advertise their own corner, but need to keep in mind the larger picture so would need to be literate and have a basic knowledge of all thing shooting. As was aid above we've been the "victims" of some seriously bad hatchet jobs in the past and that is not the fault of those involved but rather the bias they were met with which translated to carefully edited and aired programming.
    People generally like to hold on to simple messages so hammering home the practically non existent amount of legally held firearms being used in crimes, and how in the case the got handguns more or less banned, in a case of mistaken identity a young man lost his life then the government mistakenly blamed the shooting community.
    Keep the message simple, absolutely, but i'd steer clear of linking us to any criminal activity discussion, even if its in defense of our sport, as people's attention spans are short and you don't want the "juice" to be at the end of a segment when people have tuned out and all they heard was "Legal gun owner defends guns used in killing".

    We are not associated to that criminality so if asked, and its happened once or twice to me, i simply state something along the lines of "nothing to do with my sport, thats criminals being criminals but come over to the range some time and i'll show you what the sort is all about" (that is heavily shortened fro time saving in this reply). Essentially i'm rejecting the premise of their question without dismissing them and trying to open them up to the sport with a friendly invitation.
    Perhaps a point could be made that we're being scapegoated for the Gardaí's inability to control the flow of illegal guns into the country.
    I understand where you're coming from and frankly i might be inclined to agree with you, but not bout An Gardaí but about the Minsters responsible. Gardaí only enforce the law they don't write it. However the blame game has not worked for us so i think it's time to explore new avenues.
    A point should definitely be made on how difficult it is to actually get a firearm in Ireland,
    Absolutely.
    I know my local MEP Grace O'Sullivan wrote a hit piece on 14 year olds being able to get guns and using that as a Trojan horse to ban firearms, generally misrepresenting the actual situation. Ultimately it's a game of optics, we need to be seen to be sensible and honest when dealing with politicians and the public who know little about our firearm laws.
    I think i remember that piece. From a couple of years back and after the New Zealand shooting.

    There is two things i've learned about politicians over the years. They'll never miss an opportunity to headline the headlines (otherwise known as jumping on the bandwagon, especially in an election year) and they know feck all about firearms. Even looking back at the Oireachtas review committee, the level of, and i can only use this word, ignorance shown by those that were going to recommend and probably write future laws on firearms was to me shocking.

    We need to change that too.
    Those are my thoughts anyway, feel free to critique them if you want.
    Its not criticizing them but debating, discussing and getting them out there. you made some good points and are thinking of ways to work this which is all i really want to see out of this thread so keep the ideas coming.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    tudderone wrote: »
    The thing is we live in a globalised world, what happens in the USA or EU impacts us directly, If there is a mass shooting in America, we get the usual suspects here demanding things, Someone mentioned Grace O'Malley.

    As for being portrayed as dangerous or arseholes, we already are and were. Remember the RTE hatchet job on us ? Or any coverage of shooting sports in the papers, ever listen to the liveline moan-in show when they talk about us ?Its always negative and probably always will be.
    So what do we do?

    No point in re-hasing the same old points of what has happened, its what we do now that matters.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,072 12gauge dave


    With no shooting or practice ranges around there is nowhere for us gun owners without land to shoot on.

    You try a bit of lamping and your public enemy number one in the village farmers spreading rumours and being accused of all sorts and guards ringing you the next day.

    I haven't shot the gun in years and Id have no problem handing back in at this stage.

    Safe places to shoot where owners can hop in the car and go let some lead off for half an hour is what is needed. Classes for youngsters could be given then and it would grow.

    Thats my 2 cents as a young gun owner for the last 9 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone
    Registered User


    Cass wrote: »
    So what do we do?

    No point in re-hasing the same old points of what has happened, its what we do now that matters.

    I really don't know. Get politicians involved ? I remember Biffo getting his photo taken at the Midlands club when they extended their range, a short while later he chucked the pistol shooters under the bus.

    Invite journalists to ranges ? Thats been tried before and They turned on us and bit us on the arse.

    Get colleges involved ? That might be an idea, i know some already have their own rifle clubs.

    No point trying to encourage people into game shooting, if they attempt to get into a club and its like trying to get into the masons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    You don't need permission from your landlord to keep a firearm, but it might go a bit smoother if you paint the safe in a nice magnolia.
    Good luck

    As a landlord and someone who has been in this biz for 40 plus years now, it has never been a problem for us to rent to gun owners Been asked once by AGS was it ok. :)
    So long as you pay your rent on time, invited us to the parties, and kept the BDSM activities to a discreet and quiet level after midnite...That was good enough by me.:D:D

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    tudderone wrote: »
    I really don't know. Get politicians involved? I remember Biffo getting his photo taken at the Midlands club when they extended their range, a short while later he chucked the pistol shooters under the bus.

    How about getting political ourselves?... To be developed.
    Invite journalists to ranges? That's been tried before and They turned on us and bit us on the arse.
    NEver a good idea, unless you are a well skilled professional PR person.Seen how that backfired even in the UK with the hit piece done by the Times reporter on the practical shotgun.
    Get colleges involved ? That might be an idea, i know some already have their own rifle clubs.

    Much earlier, need that around the secondary school to start recruiting talent,and I'd aim it at the kids who aren't all that enthused by playing with balls. It's how the East blockers got their fantastic Olympic shooters in the Soviet era. My friends and classmates were fascinated that way back when that at 16 I was shooting and I took a bunch of them out as well to try.A couple of them kept it up and became pretty good clay shots.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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