EU will not renegotiate Brexit's Northern Ireland deal - Sefcovic | Reuters
“We are ready to continue to seek creative solutions, within the framework of the Protocol, in the interest of all communities in Northern Ireland. However, we will not agree to a renegotiation of the Protocol,” he said.
Well, that didn't take long. 🙂
The jist of their new 'plan' seems to be exactly what their plan was a few years ago. They want all the benefits of SM but none of the obligations.
Ah, but they know they will never be a runner so they, quite brilliantly I think we can all agree, have put in that far from not following the EU rules, which of course impinge of UK sovereignty, the UK will ask all traders to be really, really, really honest and fair and promise, scouts honour, that they won't ever try to bend of break the rules to gain any sort of advantage.
And that if they get what they want this time, they 100% promise that they will totally stick to it and won't be back looking for even more again.
And of course everything should be put in transition until all of this can be agreed, even though they were offered an extension previously and claimed that it was a terrible idea because business needed certainty.
In any healthy democracy this government would be out of office by the end of the day.
And lest we forget, to get the deal both sides had to make compromises. So to change anything the UK will have to offer up something to the EU. I note that they offered nothing. They are still under the illusion that simply their own importance is enough.
So are you saying that Ireland had no direct involvement or say in formulating their fishing quotas?
That is extraordinary.
"They are still under the illusion that simply their own importance is enough"
That's exactly their attitude: "I know we signed this contract two years ago, old bean, but it just doesn't suit me any more and, well I'm BRITISH, so you'll have to change the contract to suit me now. Oh, but you'll have to honour all the parts of the contract that I like and you don't. Ok, old bean? That's a good little European. Off you go now."
Seem to be conflating 'Ireland' and 'Irish government' there buddy The EU is an inter-governmental body so as per representative democracies it goes citizens protest to their national government and their government is meant to take that protest to the EU as they directly represent their people in 2 of the 4 institutions of the EU, the people can also protest to their meps to raise it to 3 of the 4 institutions.
the "UK" we are talking about is the actual bloody government, there is a key difference
On a side topic I was recently commenting on a video on youtube about the recent issues in Northern Ireland and I encountered another user with the name Robert MC who had quite a silly response to me on the topic so I'm am curious now if you are the same mr MC or is it just strange coincidence.
I have never commented on any videos on YouTube.
Irish fisherman had no direct involvement.
The UK government literally were at the table.
just a weird coincidence then :D
How the EU divide up their fishing quotas is nothing to do with the UK.
The point the poster is making about Irish fishermen is that as part of the EU they are quite entitled to lobby for additional quotas or changes to regs.
The UK having left, and left on the basis that staying was too much to bear, and having a deal in place, one that they apparently wanted and won on election on the back of, have no right to complain.
They can of course look for a different deal, but should do so through the normal channels and with the position that nothing can change until everything is agreed.
The seem to believe that they are still members, that negotiations are still ongoing and that everything is still on the table.
A simple solution is to pause Brexit, take a further two or three year extension, with the consequences such as continuing ECJ, paying into EU budget etc, and look to yet unknown solutions
Brexit's done. There's no option for "extending".
They can discuss extensions to transition periods if they so wish, but they literally just turned down that option but a few weeks ago.
We're at the "let them run and jump" point, again. Well, we would be if the man in the Taoiseach's office wasn't so useless and acquiescent.
Afaik, didn't they ask for an extension today?
They couched it in terms of suspension of timetable or whatever but it is essentially an extension to the transition period.
UK would agree to stay aligned to the EU for everything but claim they aren't.
I can only see an advantage in that for the EU. Effectively kicking the can down the road and hoping that the UK eventually starts to see sense
Give them nothing. The Tories are slowly being found out. Giving them a leg up anywhere extends their reign of terror.
You have to take the wording reign of terror in a literal sense. This extends to their oversight of hundreds of thousands of dead, mass deportations, hunger, tearing up social contracts , and removing foreign aid.
Allow them continue. Because the lustre will vanish quickly.
Cutting foreign aid is seen as a good thing by British conservative supporters. The argument being that the money should be spent at home first. Then they go and do feck all for their own disadvantaged anyway.
Well, yeah, but they've Brexited. You suggested that they pause Brexit.
No; the UK were at the table when the WA was made. They were one of the parties that made it; it literally couldn't have been done without them.
The Irish fishermen are not complaining about an allocation of fishing quotas that they made. But the UK literally is complaining about the treaty that it itself made.
If the UK political establishment (a) really thought that the WA is a bad treaty; and (b) really took the UK seriously as a democratic sovereign nation, then Johnson and Frost would be out on their ears. They did this. They did this very deliberately and very intentionally. But now they are saying it was a bad thing to do. Why are they not being held to account?
It is pretty much exactly the plan which Johnson tabled in September 2019, and which went nowhere then. So UK is basically making proposals which have already been rejected, and it is doing so at a time when it has much less negotiating clout and credibility than it had the first first time around. They cannot seriously expect this to go anywhere, and the signal they send by tabling such a hopeless proposal is that they have no real interest in a genuine negotiation. If you wanted a genuine negotiation, you wouldn't start this way.
Sammy Wilson vs Barry Andrews on NT just there, i dont think i need to go into much detail about how it went, sammy lied and then andrews and ciara kelly corrected him continuously.
This is Olympics grade obfuscation Rob.
You brought up the comparison between Irish fishermen and the UK government.
But to paraphrase you, the UK subsequently being unhappy with what they signed up to, but unable to offer anything in return or unprepared to offer any sweeteners for modifying that deal, is really no concern of the wider EU.
Don't sign up to anything - be that a job, a mortgage, a mobile phone contract, a car loan, an international treaty - unless you're absolutely happy with what you are committing yourself to. And if you don't bother reading the contract, you don't have any right whatsoever to go back to the other side and say "Sorry, I didn't realise XYZ isn't going to work for me!" if it later transpires that what you signed up to doesn't really suit you after all. That's entirely your fault, not the other side, and refusing to release you out of your agreement is not overzealous, mean spirited, anti-democratic, belligerent or any other name the Brexiters have labelled at the EU.
Yes all the way back in 2018 when Irish Government / Enterprise Ireland / Local Chambers of Commerce were running conventions and webinars on the basis that the UK would become a "3rd Country" (Deal or No Deal) Any (so called) "imposed restrictions on import/export to EU are the direct result of the UK (GB since NI protocol) of becoming a 3rd country....the so called "Australian Deal" the Tories were promoting.
Its no more difficult than that.
EU are not imposing any additional restrictions compared to any other "3rd country", in fact much less with all the exemptions and extensions the UK have been given in the WA and NI. Protocol. Other 3rd countries may withhold Trade deals because of all the special exemptions UK have been given so far.
The difference between importing from Australia than your nearest trading neighbour is as it takes 6 weeks to get from Australia, so you have 6 WEEKS to sort out the paperwork for Import. Not 10 mins in a Ferry Port queue in France.
Farmers and businesses in GB would cut off their arm to have the opportunities to sell within UK plus have free access to the EU Market
And of course they did know what the terms meant. They signed the deal regardless, knowing they were going to repudiate it later. They are untrustworthy liars. The people of the UK should be embarrassed that these people represent them.
And the short sightedness of riding the vaccine 'its was Brexit wot won it' horse is hardly going to help.
Johnson, and the rest of the government have been rubbing the EU noises for months over their supposed brilliance in terms of vaccines. Not only that, but they have also been at pains to claim that the EU were actually crap.
Now, apparently, the UK are totally unable to implement the deal they negotiated. That they deemed a massive success.
If I was VdL, and I accept she won't do this as she isn't childish, is that I would demand that before any discussions Johnson needs to publicly admit that the EU has done a reasonable job on vaccines, has continued to export vaccines to the UK to help it achieve its success and that Brexit had nothing to do with it.
The problem, as I see it, is that the UK have still not faced up to reality. They still cannot accept that this is Brexit, this is what they wanted what they voted for.
This is just the consequences of their own decisions. The irony of demanding freedom, and yet demanding that the EU gives them special treatment, appears totally lost on them.
As mentioned, yesterday should have meant the collapse of the government. They rushed this through, ignored calls for greater scrutiny, ignored warnings of possible trouble.
Looking to cancel this deal is undemocratic and it should be labelled as such. For a campaign that spends so much time complaining about the unelected bureaucrats of the EU, they are now confronted with those they elected on the basis of a particular deal unilaterally ripping that deal up without even a hint of asking what the voters think.
And in the "We're shocked I tell you, shocked" news of the day:
Business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng appears to have conceded that ministers did not know the full extent of what the Northern Ireland Protocol would, or could, mean for the island of Ireland until after Britain had already left the EU.
And of course when the truth does not fit; blame EU!
But presenter Kay Burley refuted this point. “When you said ‘nobody knew’, am I not right in saying that at least three previous prime ministers warned that this would happen?” she asked.
After stumbling over his words to correct himself, Mr Kwarteng criticised the EU for being “inflexible”, adding “nobody thought the Protocol would define the role of Northern Ireland within the UK”.
And before we get the usual "Well if borders goes up it's EU's fault" brigade; here's an international view from a US Congressman on the topic which states clearly were the blame lies:
Yep it’s starting to look like that not only lies we’re told over and over but Brexiteers cynically went on and on for years about Will of people (which is fairly hilarious as uk is such a flawed democracy) but now have no issues forgetting about all that too.
Lets call them out for what they are, right wing populists who adopted tactics of 20th century fascism movements and layered on top the more cynical aspects of modern Russian oligarchic despotism (Cummings putting his kgb training to use before he himself got thrown under the Boris bus)
The baffling thing is that the NI Protocol is a stupid hill to die on. The Protocol leaves NI in a pretty good place in terms of trade, a best of both worlds really and only a few bone headed loyalist zealots are against it. I'm just baffled who the Tories are fighting for. Their electorate couldn't give a ****. The vast majority in the North would support the protocol. And the Loyalists fighting it are too stupid to realise they are shooting themselves in the foot and will never vote tory anyway. Unless anyone can explain otherwise it really just seems to be the Tory party being extremely petty. Brexit has been a complete shitshow for them and they need to distract the masses away from that news and fighting the NI Protocol is their only way of trying to make an enemy out of the EU to distract the masses from their growing collection of colossal **** ups.
It must be exactly as you say Retro - keep the EU as an enemy and distract the masses from the unholy agenda they are pursuing.
Might be nice to explain to the electorate that most of the loyalist opposition to the NI Protocol is being drummed up by drug dealers since the Protocol makes it harder for them to smuggle drugs into NI.
Also, most people in GB couldn't give a flying fig about NI.....it may as well be South Korea or Vietnam to them. One wonders if this is the vote winner that Johnson and Frost seem to think it is.
Maybe he is looking for a Falklands/Las Malvinas moment? Most people in the UK didn't even know they existed until Maggie went all gung ho. Worked for her.
I think this might be the answer. In day to day terms the general public don't care about NI and know even less. However there's a substantial cohort of the press and public who get all misty eyed at the notion of "Empire". Playing to the usual suspects about how the EU are using underhand tactics to steal part of the very core of the UK itself will rouse the rabble to a sufficient degree and serve to distract from other issues.
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