Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Timberrrrrrrr

Something that will come as a surprise to only a few, the grift will continue.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1369116751338893312?s=19

So who is a RINO? Will these be people Trump will lable as he sees fit when they disagree with him in future?

aloyisious

banie01 wrote: »

One would hope that someone who has finished law school has a better grasp on the 1st amendment than Mr Paxton and his stance that twitter bad!

Trump is free to say what he likes, noone has impinged upon his ability to bluster and screech.
There is no guarantee to a platform, particularly one that's managed by a private company!
Nor an audience.

Those cases that reinforced the rights of business to refuse service are all going to bite any litigant taking a right to service on their arse stateside.

Ta. Platform was the word I was looking for, couldn't remember it to properly describe Trump being denied free speech via Twitter. Like with print newspapers and this platform, there is always an editor to ensure proper respect and behaviour is followed by writers.

Infini

Water John wrote: »

It quite clearly states Biden's preference, as it always has been, doesn't say the won't do it.

My guess is he'll give the republicans enough rope so when the time comes to hang them for their constant stalling they'll have no leg to stand on. They'll have to play hardball at some point but they also need to make sure those who are hesitant have some sort of polical cover against trumpulicans trying to undermine em.

They will likely have to change the filibuster if they've a hope of routing the republicans as they're hardly a democratic party anymore and are listing dangerously into authoritarianism.

Itssoeasy

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Something that will come as a surprise to only a few, the grift will continue.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1369116751338893312?s=19

So who is a RINO? Will these be people Trump will lable as he sees fit when they disagree with him in future?

Well that’s clearly trump and his ego not wanting anyone to use his image to make money. Let’s see how much the GOP pushes back.

Itssoeasy

And sorry if this has already been said but even my Normal American news podcasts are going on about that interview with Harry and Meghan and while it’s okay to cover it, it’s two days after it.

Anyway, I see that the Feds have gotten all the phone records from the January 6th event and so anyone in that building be they congressperson or ****ehawk now know that if there was any communication between let’s say a senator or congressperson of a certain party with the people invading the building it will become known. Which makes josh hawleys questions to the FBI director even more interesting.

Brussels Sprout

aloyisious wrote: »

One way to limit the damage filibustering does to actual debating on the content and aims of a bill would be to limit the time given to each "contributor" to speak from the floor would be 10/15 minutes top in a continuous speech, no breaks or prevarications, no long-windedness to prevent the business of the house proceeding. It can be done when the parties agree, as shown in the impeachment trial. Change the rules of the chamber to outlaw the practice as it's an abuse of privilege.

You're not going to get the Republicans to agree to change the rules in that way while they're not in power. The reason both parties agreed on the Impeachment trial rules is that they both had their own reasons for wanting it to be over with as fast as possible.

Also, you're unlikely to get Manchin to vote for those rule changes since it would effectively be the same as voting to get rid of the filibuster (he's not stupid).

StringerBell

Headshot wrote: »

This guy is going to spoil alot of Democrats work

https://www.thewrap.com/john-oliver-democrats-dont-seem-remotely-prepared-to-fight-republican-threats-video/

He's excuse for defending the filibuster is ridiculous

Joe Manchin I presume?

Manchin is a centrist, ploughing a lonely furrow at the moment but he is important to the party and to plenty of Moderates right now. The changes he extracted for his support are pretty minor when you look at it, and especially compare it to what Republicans extracted in the Clinton administration and even in George Bushs one in 2011 I think it was but the year may be out, some gop got him to reduce the plan by 25% or they wouldn't support. In this case Biden asked for 1.9 trillion and he got it it, that's incredible. A fantastic achievement and hopefully just a start.

Manchin also isn't actually against removing the filibuster point blank, but given his comments on it he wants to try bang his head off the wall.and work with Republican's first. He was pretty clear I thought giving the impression on one of the opinion shows this week that he would vote to remove it push came to shove.

Biden is a centrist too, and removing the filibuster wouldn't be his preference either but they are damn sure going to continue to ride the momentum and get things through. They have the public support to do so.

The thing is, particularly in American politics, messaging is so important. Manchin has to be seen to want to work with the other side and be apart from the progressives even if he does ultimately go with them because he needs to be re-elected, and when he makes his run for president he needs support of Moderates because he won't get it from the left of his party.

The test for the filibuster is to come, with HR1 etc.

For the democrat it's a no lose situation, once they do decide to go through with it, makes most sense to show the American public that they simply cannot work with the Republican's to get things passed because they refuse to work with them. Build up that message and shift as much blame to them as possible for when they get rid of the filibuster.

That's the game, it is what it is.

The filibuster in theory is good, in theory it serves a very important function actually, but with today's GOP something needs to change with it, that is clear.

StringerBell

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Something that will come as a surprise to only a few, the grift will continue.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1369116751338893312?s=19

So who is a RINO? Will these be people Trump will lable as he sees fit when they disagree with him in future?

I hope, and will enjoy watching him tear that party apart.

They deserve everything they get, and the US citizens deserve a genuine conservative leaning party to represent their interests, you need both. Whatever you political persuasion I would hope it can be agreed that you need both sides to strive and improve in the long run.

Still, it will be so enjoyable watching him take a big wrecking ball to the party to reward them for licking his toes and having zero backbone. Well deserved.

Itssoeasy

We have new audio of trump phone calls to Georgia and he’s stepping in it again but saying the quiet part out loud.

Rjd2

StringerBell wrote: »

Joe Manchin I presume?

Manchin is a centrist, ploughing a lonely furrow at the moment but he is important to the party and to plenty of Moderates right now. The changes he extracted for his support are pretty minor when you look at it, and especially compare it to what Republicans extracted in the Clinton administration and even in George Bushs one in 2011 I think it was but the year may be out, some gop got him to reduce the plan by 25% or they wouldn't support. In this case Biden asked for 1.9 trillion and he got it it, that's incredible. A fantastic achievement and hopefully just a start.

Manchin also isn't actually against removing the filibuster point blank, but given his comments on it he wants to try bang his head off the wall.and work with Republican's first. He was pretty clear I thought giving the impression on one of the opinion shows this week that he would vote to remove it push came to shove.

Biden is a centrist too, and removing the filibuster wouldn't be his preference either but they are damn sure going to continue to ride the momentum and get things through. They have the public support to do so.

The thing is, particularly in American politics, messaging is so important. Manchin has to be seen to want to work with the other side and be apart from the progressives even if he does ultimately go with them because he needs to be re-elected, and when he makes his run for president he needs support of Moderates because he won't get it from the left of his party.

The test for the filibuster is to come, with HR1 etc.

For the democrat it's a no lose situation, once they do decide to go through with it, makes most sense to show the American public that they simply cannot work with the Republican's to get things passed because they refuse to work with them. Build up that message and shift as much blame to them as possible for when they get rid of the filibuster.

That's the game, it is what it is.

The filibuster in theory is good, in theory it serves a very important function actually, but with today's GOP something needs to change with it, that is clear.

I keep saying this, but Manchen is rarely the deciding vote when it comes to anything. The only person he has voted no on was Tanden who was awful and I suspect he was told that Bernie was also a no thus her nomination was dead on arrival.

His strategy is mainly, wait for the Dem policy, tut, demand bipartisanship,and then ultimately vote it through.

With the fillibuster, their is other Dems who are opposed to removing it thus why he can be so vocal about keeping it, once they fold he will also.

Its how he rolls and for one of the reddest states in America, the Dems get good value from Manchen. He is never going to vote ala a California Democrat, but ffs he doesn't vote with Mitch etc than often.

Rjd2

Paula Jean Swearengin has ran as an AOC type progressive last few years its gone as well as you'd expect in WV.

So yeah its Manchen or nothing in West Virginia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Jean_Swearengin

gimli2112

I've never understood how Nazi Germany happened, how so many people followed such a corrupt regime. I put it down to desperation, ignorance and a different time. Watching something on Discovery at the moment about their rise to power and three words just stand out, their "simplistic nationalist slogans".
Maybe this is not a relevant thread to post such musings and maybe it is.

amandstu

gimli2112 wrote: »

I've never understood how Nazi Germany happened, how so many people followed such a corrupt regime. I put it down to desperation, ignorance and a different time. Watching something on Discovery at the moment about their rise to power and three words just stand out, their "simplistic nationalist slogans".
Maybe this is not a relevant thread to post such musings and maybe it is.

Play to your audience's most degraded tendencies?

Don't dream of telling them they could be wrong and have a line-up of scapegoats to take flack.

Yes ,who would have thought a civilized,cultured nation like Germany would roll over like that.

In comparison USA is an easy target . Problem is they have it so easy it is that bit harder to arouse their inner victimhood.

salmocab

gimli2112 wrote: »

I've never understood how Nazi Germany happened, how so many people followed such a corrupt regime. I put it down to desperation, ignorance and a different time. Watching something on Discovery at the moment about their rise to power and three words just stand out, their "simplistic nationalist slogans".
Maybe this is not a relevant thread to post such musings and maybe it is.

There’s a need to blame others for where they are.

Tell me how

amandstu wrote: »

Play to your audience's most degraded tendencies?

Don't dream of telling them they could be wrong and have a line-up of scapegoats to take flack.

Yes ,who would have thought a civilized,cultured nation like Germany would roll over like that.

In comparison USA is an easy target . Problem is they have it so easy it is that bit harder to arouse their inner victimhood.

That is no longer the case.
Ever since Raegan abandoned the Fairness Doctrine which forced News outlets to present a true and unbiased version of the news, opinion media has run rampant. If you were to say that both sides are at it in this respect, the left has been focused on a need for more social equality, issues with race that need to be tackled and the impending climate issue. This has led to their viewers marching for a need for action on climate, in support of BLM and calling for affordable healthcare.
Over the same timeframe, conservative media has radicalized their viewers to look at others as threats and enemies and that the Democratic party is leading America in to communism via the path of socialism and that they are going to take away Americans guns.
The result of this narrative has led to 74M people voting for a serial liar who was impeached twice while proving he could not do the job he was elected to.
And while conservatives frequently harp on about the good old American values of fairness, honesty and hardwork from the post war period, if you suggested now that the Fairness doctrine should be reinitiated, they would go buck ape over losing their freedom of speech or if you suggested going back to the higher top rate taxes for uber wealthy they would talk about government over reach and unwanted involvement in the free market. And while they are vehmently against government involvement in their lives with respect to these areas, Arkansas Republicans just effectively enacted a total abortion ban even in the cases of rape and incest and have done so with the explicit desire that it will ultimately bring Roe v Wade to the Supreme Court and that abortion in America will be outlawed.

It's hard to see the American project working out well in the short term of the next 5-20 years. Republicans had a chance to recalibrate after Trump lost and his behaviour after the election pretty much gave them a Get out of Jail Free card with their electorate in terms of cutting him loose. But, because of the inflamed sense of victimhood from viewers of Fox, OAN and Newsmax and listeners to the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Steve Bannon, and Alex Jones, they instead sent Kevin McCarthy to Mar-A-Lago to massage his ego, gave him the keynote at CPAC and initiated coordinated attacks on those who tried to hold him responsible for his actions in damaging America. This final point being the epitome of cancel culture which these same people would cry and moan about as being a tool of the 'Woke' and a Liberal agenda.

As before, it is all very entertaining, and simultaneously, very worrying.

Detritus70

amandstu wrote: »

Play to your audience's most degraded tendencies?

Don't dream of telling them they could be wrong and have a line-up of scapegoats to take flack.

Yes ,who would have thought a civilized,cultured nation like Germany would roll over like that.

In comparison USA is an easy target . Problem is they have it so easy it is that bit harder to arouse their inner victimhood.

My theory is that it's even easier.
Find a target audience of relatively privileged white folks and plug into their fears about minorities, women, lefties, socialists, eco nuts, Muslims, atheists and all those other countries in the world.
Tell them all the above have been taking slices out of "their" pie and that you will make sure that won't happen again.
"Make America Great Again" just means make America white and Christian again.
The more someone has, the easier it is to convince them that someone else wants to take it away.
Of course today's modern racist has learnt never to directly state that "X minority is bad and wants to take your stuff", they do this very cleverly by alluding to some mystical golden age where white dad would eat a bloody steak for breakfast, kiss his white wife goodbye, jump into his V8 truck and work at an assembly line making more V8 trucks all day.
They just don't say "and all those libtards and minorities won't be part of this new golden age".
Hence the supporters can say "he's not a racist, show me a single racist thing he said". Of course when you do, the answer is "no not like that".

BonnieSituation

It's been wonderfully refreshing to see this thread wallow at the bottom of my followed threads the last while.

Even reading it, I have no idea what he's been up to. I didn't even get to see any pictures of him from that conference. It really has been a great 2 months.

amandstu

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's been wonderfully refreshing to see this thread wallow at the bottom of my followed threads the last while.

Even reading it, I have no idea what he's been up to. I didn't even get to see any pictures of him from that conference. It really has been a great 2 months.

That is true and welcome.

The Trump effect was closely related to the miasma effect (the one they believed at the time caused the plague in London)

https://deathscent.com/2020/01/21/the-rise-of-miasma/

Still ,as said often he is also a symptom and we all all victims.

amandstu

Tell me how wrote: »

That is no longer the case.
Ever since Raegan abandoned the Fairness Doctrine which forced News outlets to present a true and unbiased version of the news, opinion media has run rampant.

Only remember that vaguely now.

Should there be stricter laws against obviously mendacious coverage of news events?

3 strikes and all that..

Forced to listen to Trump "speeches" on a loop?

amandstu

Detritus70 wrote: »

.
The more someone has, the easier it is to convince them that someone else wants to take it away.
".

Yes,I disregarded that.

Itssoeasy

I must say the court filings for the people arrested for the riot on the 6th of January which were largely fuelled by the lies told by trump and his allies over the election are interesting to read. These lads are in full on medal of honour cosplay mode, and not the brightest bulbs in the box when you look at their social media postings and interviews after the fact. Maybe it’s just me but if I was involved in a riot at a parliament building, I’d be keeping the head down and not bragging about it.

duploelabs

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I must say the court filings for the people arrested for the riot on the 6th of January which were largely fuelled by the lies told by trump and his allies over the election are interesting to read. These lads are in full on medal of honour cosplay mode, and not the brightest bulbs in the box when you look at their social media postings and interviews after the fact. Maybe it’s just me but if I was involved in a riot at a parliament building, I’d be keeping the head down and not bragging about it.

One of those bulbs actually shaved a Hitler moustache and wore it around work prior to the riot

Itssoeasy

duploelabs wrote: »

One of those bulbs actually shaved a Hitler moustache and wore it around work prior to the riot

I saw that. Did you see the pictures of him looking like a gowl into the camera and looking like he was about the give the salute ?

Itssoeasy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I must say the court filings for the people arrested for the riot on the 6th of January which were largely fuelled by the lies told by trump and his allies over the election are interesting to read. These lads are in full on medal of honour cosplay mode, and not the brightest bulbs in the box when you look at their social media postings and interviews after the fact. Maybe it’s just me but if I was involved in a riot at a parliament building, I’d be keeping the head down and not bragging about it.

Their a bit like the Irish np lads, not the sharpest tools in the box, like to assault members of the gardai all while claiming to be tough on crime.

amandstu

It is "be nice to Trump " now .:D

He just told his supporters to get vaccinated(with expected caveats)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56424614

Hope he doesn't blow this by reverting to kind too soon

Brian?

4 people arrested for election fraud in Texas, including a Justice of the Peace. They were harvesting votes for Trump, in a district he won by 40 points. They deserve a spot on America’s dummest criminals.

I think that makes the third confirmed case of election fraud by GOP supporters and zero from Dems.

serfboard

Brian? wrote: »

I think that makes the third confirmed case of election fraud by GOP supporters and zero from Dems.

Standard Operating Procedure from the Trumpists - do that which you accuse others of doing.

Itssoeasy

I see that Fox News is going all out in their putin love fest. Imagine going back to the 1970/80s and telling republicans there that in 40 years your party will rooting for russia against your own country. They’d look at you stupid.

Cody montana

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I see that Fox News is going all out in their putin love fest. Imagine going back to the 1970/80s and telling republicans there that in 40 years your party will rooting for russia against your own country. They’d look at you stupid.

You'd wonder how low they can go.
There seems to be no bottom.

Itssoeasy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I see that Fox News is going all out in their putin love fest. Imagine going back to the 1970/80s and telling republicans there that in 40 years your party will rooting for russia against your own country. They’d look at you stupid.

They may have, but they are the ones wearing the I'd rather be Russian than democrat tops, which says more than enough about their cognitive reasoning abilities, and many other traits.