Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

banie01

Well we can put the rune controversy to be I suppose.

https://conservative.org/article/a-response-to-hyatt-hotels

It's the Hyatt's fault for not exercising oversight of CPACs production or voicing objection.
No refutation of the runic stage or the connotations implicit!

For months we have collaborated with your team on logistics, including sharing, reviewing, and approving the stage design that was created by one of our subcontractors.
The fact that no one on the Hyatt staff ever raised concerns during the process shows the ridiculous nature of your statements.

salmocab

12gauge dave wrote: »

You all seem very dissapointed that a right winger is not up to scratch on nazism .

I think in the pile of nonsense this beauty of a sentence may have been missed.

Brian?

kowloon wrote: »

I still don't think the stage was on purpose, I reckon someone just liked the shape and didn't think about it. I noticed when talking about it one of the stories I read had a list of "white supremacist symbols" and the Celtic cross was one of them. That was something I hadn't heard before.

The Aryan nation and other white supremacist groups in the US have co-opted symbols from the whole of Northern Europe. Vikings, Celts, Saxons etc., they’re too ignorant of history to even care.

I struggle to believe the stage was an accident. If it was the first time, maybe. But there have been too many now.

kowloon

Brian? wrote: »

The Aryan nation and other white supremacist groups in the US have co-opted symbols from the whole of Northern Europe. Vikings, Celts, Saxons etc., they’re too ignorant of history to even care.

I struggle to believe the stage was an accident. If it was the first time, maybe. But there have been too many now.

It pisses me off that effectively they can pick any symbol and get it banned for being a "hate symbol".
Personally, I think symbols only have the power they're given and banning swastikas in Germany and other countries didn't make the people who put them on their flag go away or tone down their views, it just drove them underground. Let them keep their symbols and they're easy to identify and don't play this hiding game that ends up with people being offended by a cartoon frog (remember Pepe?).

Cody montana

Breaking NYT: State prosecutors in Manhattan who are investigating Trump and his business are sharpening their focus on the company's long-serving chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, asking witnesses questions about his dealings at the company.

Itssoeasy

Cody montana wrote: »

Breaking NYT: State prosecutors in Manhattan who are investigating Trump and his business are sharpening their focus on the company's long-serving chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, asking witnesses questions about his dealings at the company.

Not a huge surprise really. He’s one of the keys because he’s been with the company for years and he isn’t a trump so while he has loyalty to the trump organisation, I doubt it’s unlimited.

aloyisious

The CEO of Goya [a Hispanic Food Company] Robert Unanue, seems to have landed himself in trouble with the Goya Board and with several Hispanic groups in the U.S. for stating at the PAC conference that in his opinion Trump was the legitimate president of the U.S. Goya's board have voted by majority to silence him by having to ask it for permission before making any more media appearances.

I don't know how much of a Trump supporter he is or whether he will accept the board's instruction, or whether the Board's decision may be a weather vane signal about the U.S Hispanic community changing it's position of major electoral support for Trump, even though it apparently won him the vote in Florida last year. It might merely be a signal that Goya wants to keep out of direct involvement in U.S presidential politics for purely business financial reasons.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/25/goya-foods-votes-to-silence-pro-trump-ceo-robert-unanue/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/national-latino-groups-condemn-goya-foods-ceo-for-calling-trump-the-actual-president/ar-BB1e8dCb?et_rid=753721489&s_campaign=fastforward%253Anewsletter

Brian?

kowloon wrote: »

It pisses me off that effectively they can pick any symbol and get it banned for being a "hate symbol".
Personally, I think symbols only have the power they're given and banning swastikas in Germany and other countries didn't make the people who put them on their flag go away or tone down their views, it just drove them underground. Let them keep their symbols and they're easy to identify and don't play this hiding game that ends up with people being offended by a cartoon frog (remember Pepe?).

I get your point, but I don’t think any of these symbols are banned except for the swastika in Germany.

looksee

kowloon wrote: »

It pisses me off that effectively they can pick any symbol and get it banned for being a "hate symbol".
Personally, I think symbols only have the power they're given and banning swastikas in Germany and other countries didn't make the people who put them on their flag go away or tone down their views, it just drove them underground. Let them keep their symbols and they're easy to identify and don't play this hiding game that ends up with people being offended by a cartoon frog (remember Pepe?).

The swastika was banned because it was a Nazi symbol, not because these current far right groups use it. They use lots of symbols - hijack them - but it is the connection that matters, not the actual symbol.

When a right-wing group uses a symbol such as the one used as the stage its that link that matters, it shows the far right thinking within the group rather than any inherent symbolism of the shape. Its not just the Dems saying - they are far right - they are themselves claiming not only far-rightness but all the baggage that goes with it.

Just using a symbol does not make it suspect when there is no link. Viking reenactors use the Thor's hammer (possibly sometimes incorrectly, there is a small suspicion that it was a women's symbol, found in female graves, but whatever) and no-one assumes they are far right, I have worn one myself with no thought that I might be advertising political leanings.

banie01

In what is an irony that will no doubt be lost upon the CPAC conservative Christians :rolleyes:

Their golden idol was made in Mexico by an immigrant (To Mexico):D

Now the artist behind the huge statue of Trump – Tommy Zegan – has revealed that the object was made in Mexico; a country that has been the target of much Trump racist abuse over his political career, and somewhere he has literally sought to build a wall against.

“It was made in Mexico,” Zegan told Politico’s Playbook newsletter. Zegan, who lives in Mexico on a permanent resident visa, described the transport of the monument to CPAC in full to Playbook.

The audacity of hypocrisy is staggering.
The deliberateness and the pointedness of the actions are surely absolute trolling of the highest level?

Convincing "Christian conservatives" to abandon a prime tenet of their faith?
In an effort to own the libs?

The descent into a cult of personality is complete IMO.
Even in the November election, Trump ran without a manifesto (Platform in US parlance).
He basically took the position of telling the electorate, "Vote for me! Who knows what I'll do next!"
And somehow, 74 million people did!

Now there are @150 bills aiming to restrict voting rights in 43 states.
Bills driven by the GOP because they KNOW, that in free and fair elections?
Their move towards authoritarianism is losing traction and a wider electorate will continue to dilute their hold.

Christy42

Brian? wrote: »

I get your point, but I don’t think any of these symbols are banned except for the swastika in Germany.

Indeed. Many seem to link banned and called out on sonething when they are not the same. Remember a man marched with a swastika flag in Charlottesville and was not arrested for it if you want proof no nazi symbols are banned in the US.

Personally I would figure if you part of a party heavily linked to a group raiding the capital with 6mwe jumpers and hanging White supremacist flags then you would think to be a little more careful about this sort of thing.

Detritus70

kowloon wrote: »

It pisses me off that effectively they can pick any symbol and get it banned for being a "hate symbol".
Personally, I think symbols only have the power they're given and banning swastikas in Germany and other countries didn't make the people who put them on their flag go away or tone down their views, it just drove them underground. Let them keep their symbols and they're easy to identify and don't play this hiding game that ends up with people being offended by a cartoon frog (remember Pepe?).

Whining about "cancel culture", that one never gets old.
The swastika is banned for a damn good reason in Germany and personally I am 100% behind anyone flying this symbol of hate being punished by law. And them picking up their teeth.
Free speech does NOT give you the right to incite hatred or promote racism.
This is what pisses me off about the right "Oh no, I can't wear my Clan Outfit without being attacked, why are people yelling at me for wearing a swastika and some such sh*te.
Oh no, I am not allowed to be a racist bigot, my freedom is being curtailed.
Listen up here buddy, there's a life lesson in this:
Your freedom ends where it infringes on the freedom of others. It may be cool to hate on minorities, women, "libtards", eco nuts or anyone who doesn't fit the white, conservative, english-speaking, bible-bashing, gun-toating, beef-eating. corn-fed, knuckle-dragging American good ole' boy, but these people will have to learn something.
The USA ALSO belongs to the lefties, the liberals, the bronies, dem wimmenfolk and people of any color or creed, as it says right in the bloody constituation.

Right wingers want to show that their America is white, christian and conservative and if anyone doesn't meet ALL of these criteria, they are not part of this America.
These people are deeply repugnant and offensive and don't think for one second that the left are stupid and let these peoplke run roughshod over everything because they're supposed to be "tolerant". So far the left was seen as weak, tolerant, to be pushed around, people who give in.
Where has this landed us? It just shows that people need to stand up to assholes and let them hit a brick wall.
The time of right-wing assholes riding on a wave of tolerance are over. Meet the new left.
There can be no tolerance for intolerance.

Professor Moriarty

Christy42 wrote: »

Indeed. Many seem to link banned and called out on sonething when they are not the same. Remember a man marched with a swastika flag in Charlottesville and was not arrested for it if you want proof no nazi symbols are banned in the US.

Personally I would figure if you part of a party heavily linked to a group raiding the capital with 6mwe jumpers and hanging White supremacist flags then you would think to be a little more careful about this sort of thing.

If people think that symbols are unimportant, I suggest that they wander around a Sinn Féin Ard-Fheis with a Union Jack wrapped around their shoulders to prove their point.

Timberrrrrrrr

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

If people think that symbols are unimportant, I suggest that they wander around a Sinn Féin Ard-Fheis with a Union Jack wrapped around their shoulders to prove their point.

Sure just read the apoplectic posts in the annual poppy threads.

Timberrrrrrrr

And something that will come as a shock to no one, Kayleigh Macenany joins Fox news


https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1366789113836433418?s=19

PropJoe10

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And something that will come as a shock to no one, Kayleigh Macenany joins Fox news


https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1366789113836433418?s=19

Bit surprised by that to be honest. I thought she'd end up somewhere like OANN. Her brand of lies is even a bit extreme for Fox News.

Nody

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Bit surprised by that to be honest. I thought she'd end up somewhere like OANN. Her brand of lies is even a bit extreme for Fox News.

She's shown she's willing to tell what ever lies is asked of her; that's a perfect fit with Fox for the "opinion and not news" section of Fox that will support what ever (R) their boss wants them to support. Add in a pretty young face and probably willing to take more sexual harassment being young and new in the business trying to get in (or believed to) from senior colleagues (see previous sexual harassment cases and Fox failure to act) I'd say they see her as a perfect fit.

Timberrrrrrrr

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Bit surprised by that to be honest. I thought she'd end up somewhere like OANN. Her brand of lies is even a bit extreme for Fox News.

I think OANN/Newsmax wouldn't be "prestigious" enough for her, Fox is the most watched and she will therefore want to be in the front and center of all things political, I reckon she will go the Tucker Carlson route.

kowloon

Detritus70 wrote: »

Whining about "cancel culture", that one never gets old.
The swastika is banned for a damn good reason in Germany and personally I am 100% behind anyone flying this symbol of hate being punished by law. And them picking up their teeth.
Free speech does NOT give you the right to incite hatred or promote racism.
This is what pisses me off about the right "Oh no, I can't wear my Clan Outfit without being attacked, why are people yelling at me for wearing a swastika and some such sh*te.
Oh no, I am not allowed to be a racist bigot, my freedom is being curtailed.
Listen up here buddy, there's a life lesson in this:
Your freedom ends where it infringes on the freedom of others. It may be cool to hate on minorities, women, "libtards", eco nuts or anyone who doesn't fit the white, conservative, english-speaking, bible-bashing, gun-toating, beef-eating. corn-fed, knuckle-dragging American good ole' boy, but these people will have to learn something.

I wasn't whining about "cancel culture", I was whining about how they can appropriate ANY symbol and make it theirs, which is exactly what happened with the swastika, it's literally the strongest example. The Nazis didn't invent it, they took it and made it their own, just like they could with any other symbol.
Yes, the swastika was banned because of the Nazis, I'm well aware of that, but you then see the Finns dropping the hakaristi to avoid association. (That said, their close alignment with the Nazis really didn't help them come out of it all looking too great.)
This whole semi-clandestine language of previously innocuous imagery being stolen and used to dogwhistle the worst parts of society is what gets my back up. We should be past all this hate-group heraldry BS.

Anyway, if your post is making an assumption that I, personally, am some sort of hate-group bigot you couldn't be wider of the mark, my post history is free to browse.

serfboard

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Kayleigh Macenany re-joins Fox news

FYP since:

Wikipedia wrote:

She began her media career as a producer for Huckabee on Fox News

Nody

On a similar theme of neo nazis etc. some interesting information has come out from the FBI in a senate hearing:

The director of the FBI considers racially motivated domestic extremists such as white supremacists the “top threat” facing Americans, as the nation continues to learn more about such people who perpetrated the deadly insurrection at the US Capitol last month.

“The top threat we face from [domestic violent extremists] continues to be those we identify as Racially or Ethnically Motivated Violent Extremists (RMVEs), specifically those who advocate for the superiority of the white race,” FBI Director Christopher Wray testified before members of the Senate Judiciary Committee on Tuesday.

The FBI has formally elevated the threat from white supremacist groups to its top priority level, alongside ISIS and its network of homegrown terrorists, Mr Wray said.

o quantify the rise of domestic terrorism in the US, Mr Wray divulged that the FBI is currently working through roughly 2,000 domestic terrorism cases. At a March 2019 congressional hearing, he said at the time that number was around 850 ongoing cases.

That's an increase of over 100% from DOMESTIC terrorists that is dominated by "white supremacy" in a year. Those are the people that the platform was targeted at; those are the people Trump refused to condemn, those are the people who stormed capitol hill and those are at the same level of threat as ISIS to the USA.

And around here I expect the "but what about all evil AntiFA people who were really doing it" crowd to throw a hissy fit:

Notably, Mr Wray did not place “Antifa” on that same level, despite the committee’s Republican ranking member, Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa, spending most of his opening statement railing against the left-wing and anti-government extremist group’s violent actions amid racial justice protests in the summer of 2020.

The problem is white supremacists; not AntiFA and they are not considered on an equal level of threat no matter how much Trump tries to shift the blame.

And to really nail that one home:

Mr Wray rejected conspiracy theories — promoted by Republican Senate Judiciary member Ron Johnson of Wisconsin and others — that the Capitol riot was a false flag operation precipitated by “fake Trump protesters” and other malign actors not associated with the overwhelming pro-Trump sentiment of the march on the legislature that day.

Mr Durbin asked the FBI director point-blank on Tuesday whether there were fake Trump protesters who stormed the Capitol.

“We have not seen evidence of that at this stage, sir,” Mr Wray said.

Trump supporters only; no AntiFA dressed up BS that Trump supporters like to blame. Own it; this is what Trump wanted and Trump supporters did it.

All quotes from here.

kowloon

Nody wrote: »

The problem is white supremacists; not AntiFA and they are not considered on an equal level of threat no matter how much Trump tries to shift the blame.

The above doesn't include the Capitol so the 2020 bar is way out.

Water John

'In what is an irony that will no doubt be lost upon the CPAC conservative Christians

Their golden idol was made in Mexico by an immigrant (To Mexico)' banei01


Did they not read their bible? Trump is the new golden calf.

Detritus70

kowloon wrote: »

I wasn't whining about "cancel culture", I was whining about how they can appropriate ANY symbol and make it theirs, which is exactly what happened with the swastika, it's literally the strongest example. The Nazis didn't invent it, they took it and made it their own, just like they could with any other symbol.
Yes, the swastika was banned because of the Nazis, I'm well aware of that, but you then see the Finns dropping the hakaristi to avoid association. (That said, their close alignment with the Nazis really didn't help them come out of it all looking too great.)
This whole semi-clandestine language of previously innocuous imagery being stolen and used to dogwhistle the worst parts of society is what gets my back up. We should be past all this hate-group heraldry BS.

Anyway, if your post is making an assumption that I, personally, am some sort of hate-group bigot you couldn't be wider of the mark, my post history is free to browse.

You have to ask yourself, if there is a group of people on the streets with Confederate, Trump and swastika flags, do these people fly the swastika because of it's original meaning?
Context is everything.

kowloon

Detritus70 wrote: »

You have to ask yourself, if there is a group of people on the streets with Confederate, Trump and swastika flags, do these people fly the swastika because of it's original meaning?
Context is everything.

I totally get it, nobody in Europe will take a swastika to mean anything else, it's a bit murkier in India. I wasn't saying these symbols aren't connected to white supremacy groups or QAnon or whatever, I'm just expressing how much it pisses me off that they can just decide "this is ours now".
I happen to like the design of Celtic crosses, but I might get some very weird looks wearing a Clonmacnoise T-shirt because of Stormfront and the likes (The KKK also?).

ancapailldorcha

Detritus70 wrote: »

You have to ask yourself, if there is a group of people on the streets with Confederate, Trump and swastika flags, do these people fly the swastika because of it's original meaning?
Context is everything.

Context takes seconds to discern. There's a house on my street with swastikas on stained glass above the door. Nobody pays any heed because they're clearly in the Indian style and I live in a very Indian part of London.

If it's the American right on the other hand, you've got neo-Nazis. As I said, simple.

Itssoeasy

It’s kind of the same with the use of the confederate flag by cork gaa supporters. I doubt very much that the history of the flag was top of mind. It’s red and white which are the cork colours. That’s for the vast majority of people is the main issue. I know it’s been discouraged from being used at matches by the cork GAA top brass but they are assuming most cork GAA supporters know the back story to the flag.

Christy42

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It’s kind of the same with the use of the confederate flag by cork gaa supporters. I doubt very much that the history of the flag was top of mind. It’s red and white which are the cork colours. That’s for the vast majority of people is the main issue. I know it’s been discouraged from being used at matches by the cork GAA top brass but they are assuming most cork GAA supporters know the back story to the flag.

I don't think that one has a secondary meaning though. Like the swastika had a meaning before the Nazis. I am not sure the confederate flag did.

The Cork supporters wave it because it is a flag of rebellion (rebel County). Otherwise the Canadian flag would seem a better fit.

Itssoeasy

Christy42 wrote: »

I don't think that one has a secondary meaning though. Like the swastika had a meaning before the Nazis. I am not sure the confederate flag did.

The Cork supporters wave it because it is a flag of rebellion (rebel County). Otherwise the Canadian flag would seem a better fit.

Well yeah the rebel county angle probably had a part to play. My point is I don’t think there was a well thought out reason for it.


Anyway, what do we think will be the maga crowds pivot when as we all expect trump won’t become president in March 4th ? And I see that Alex Jones has been caught on camera(it looks like it was a hot mic during a longer interview) saying how much he hates trump and wishes he’d never got involved with him. He also belittles his audience because of how easy it is to sell them stuff.

Tell me how

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well yeah the rebel county angle probably had a part to play. My point is I don’t think there was a well thought out reason for it.


Anyway, what do we think will be the maga crowds pivot when as we all expect trump won’t become president in March 4th ? And I see that Alex Jones has been caught on camera(it looks like it was a hot mic during a longer interview) saying how much he hates trump and wishes he’d never got involved with him. He also belittles his audience because of how easy it is to sell them stuff.

But the liberals are the sheeple don't you know.

Alex told his fans to say that. And they do, without a hint of awareness or irony.