Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

StringerBell

Right leaning or trumpette?

Was this your first cpac? If so, why? If not, how did you not know they take place in other countries also?

It's okay to simply be a trumpette like, but I'd love to have a serious conservative around to flesh out their stance on things and why they tolerate certain elements, is it purely a Machiavellien approach or something more etc

I assume though that given the non answer to the question of what you enjoyed specifically from trump's speech that you referred to as fantasy that it may simply be another taken in by the cult of personality rather than an actual ideologue?

salmocab

StringerBell wrote: »

Right leaning or trumpette?

Was this your first cpac? If so, why? If not, how did you not know they take place in other countries also?

It's okay to simply be a trumpette like, but I'd love to have a serious conservative around to flesh out their stance on things and why they tolerate certain elements, is it purely a Machiavellien approach or something more etc

I assume though that given the non answer to the question of what you enjoyed specifically from trump's speech that you referred to as fantasy that it may simply be another taken in by the cult of personality rather than an actual ideologue?

Are you expecting rational debate about politics from someone who admits their knowledge of nazis only goes as far as WW2 movies?

Leroy42

12gauge dave wrote: »

As a right leaning individual I enjoyed the event what can I say.
Learning there is cpacs in other countries was surprising to me aswell.

My knowledge of nazism only going as far as WW2 movies, i had no idea the stage beared any resemblance to any symbols untill I came on here last night.

Tin foil hat time for the Dems

You can say why you not only enjoyed the event and why you think it was

An enjoyable and well run event all round.

Compared to what?

Your knowledge of the greatest event in the 20th century, arguably in history, is based entirely on movies?

But now that you have been shown the link to the symbols, you still think the event was well run all round?

And you say it was a

fantastic speech Mr President

What was fantastic about it? As a right-winger, what did he set out that he is going to achieve in the next 4 years to make your life better, or the lives of Americans better? What policies is is going to try to work with the Biden administration to achieve? What is his plan to make the GOP stronger, since sticking to Trump on its own has been shown not to work electorally?

You think, as a right-winger that Trump has placed you in a better position now that you were 6 months ago?

sydthebeat

12gauge dave wrote: »

As a right leaning individual I enjoyed the event what can I say.
Learning there is cpacs in other countries was surprising to me aswell.

My knowledge of nazism only going as far as WW2 movies, i had no idea the stage beared any resemblance to any symbols untill I came on here last night.

Tin foil hat time for the Dems

Ignorance of the meaning of the symbol does not mean the symbol doesn't exist.

Its overtly prominent.

That was a fascist event, pure and simple, and if it appealed to you maybe you need to step back and take account

PropJoe10

A disgusting speech by Trump last night, full of lies and utter delusion. No doubt it'll be lapped up by his devoted cult members but it's a timely reminder that this man is a serious threat to democracy around the world.

PropJoe10

12gauge dave wrote: »

Fantastic speech Mr President great to have you back.

An enjoyable and well run event all round.
I look forward to the next few years as a Conservative exciting times.

Trump is not even a conservative. What is it that you see in him?

Water John

Only 55% of his audience at the CPAC actually has him as first pick to run in 2024. Nearly half those cheering there, don't believe in him either.

Cody montana

PropJoe10 wrote: »

A disgusting speech by Trump last night, full of lies and utter delusion. No doubt it'll be lapped up by his devoted cult members but it's a timely reminder that this man is a serious threat to democracy around the world.

Didn’t we have someone recently post fact check for Biden?
They are strangely silent on this.

robinph

Cody montana wrote: »

Didn’t we have someone recently post fact check for Biden?
They are strangely silent on this.

Have seen some fact checks of Biden on the BBC site, but it's only really to show that they are checking. The things they criticise are not even comparable.

Question: Is the sea made of water?

Biden: Yes.

Fact check website: Not true, its a combination of water and salt and fishes.

Trump: Hillary did it and caused all the immigrants to invade the USA ( chant by crowd "USA, USA...") and we're going to build a beautiful wall across the Pacific ocean to stop the China Virus from getting here.

Fact check site: Boats float on top of water so a wall on the seabed is unlikely to stop boats. Partially false.

Tell me how

12gauge dave wrote: »

As a right leaning individual I enjoyed the event what can I say.
Learning there is cpacs in other countries was surprising to me aswell.

My knowledge of nazism only going as far as WW2 movies, i had no idea the stage beared any resemblance to any symbols untill I came on here last night.

Tin foil hat time for the Dems

This, in a nutshell, is a synopsis of just how fcuked up politics is at the moment, and while the conversation here is specifically related to the US, this mind set has inflicted discourse elsewhere around the world at the moment.

Within just a coupe of sentences of 1 post, you both admit that your knowledge of Nazism is limited to that which you have watched on movies, and that this is 'tin foil hat for the Dems' implying that any concerns are some sort of conspiracy theory.

When I was younger, I naively believed that the world had gotten to a place where people with such ignorance would be laughed out of the conversation but unfortunately, we have seen in recent years that there are all too many available to push such ignorance as nearly being laudable and that the people with knowledge and awareness of how evil minds rose to power in the past are conspiracy theorists and shouldn't be listened to.

I don't think I have 'enjoyed' posting here for probably over a year at this point but I find myself drawn in to conversations because I think it is important not to allow voices of regression, hatred, and in some cases, absolute categorical jaw-dropping ignorance to gain a foothold which unfortunately, I fear is happening anyway.

Detritus70

12gauge dave wrote: »

As a right leaning individual I enjoyed the event what can I say.
Learning there is cpacs in other countries was surprising to me aswell.

My knowledge of nazism only going as far as WW2 movies, i had no idea the stage beared any resemblance to any symbols untill I came on here last night.

Tin foil hat time for the Dems

Well, it's just as well that you out yourself as a Nazi to clean up any confusion.



For your edification, so you can't claim ignorance anymore. So if you continue to support the Rs, you know where you're at.
In any case I am glad to be of help in your extremely limited education.
Maybe knowing all the facts will prevent you from foolishly chosing politcally radical parties with zero substance behind them.
Of course this is all rather taxing, maybe you're distracted by all the loud noises and flashing lights, most people on the right are, since their reasoning abilities are, by default, quite limited. it comes with the territory.
Let me know if you need help with anything I wrote, points that are unclear, longer words I can help explain, just drop me a line.

And I don't care one iota about unproven. That is clear as day. I will not accept any argument to the contrary.

ancapailldorcha

Trolling post and responses deleted.

astrofool

I doubt the stage was on purpose, but there will be the usual responses:

"Was the stage design on purpose? and if it was by accident will you condemn far right fascists using it to justify their existence?"
"I refer you to a statement in the past where we told everyone we weren't fascist"
"But will you condemn them here and now?"
"No"

Good thing is trump is on the way out, there's no reason why he wouldn't declare a run other than he isn't, the guy can't keep anything to himself. Who will replace him in the GOP?

Why isn't donny running himself? Legal, health, or fear of losing again? (probably by a wider margin).

Detritus70

astrofool wrote: »

I doubt the stage was on purpose,

I don't

amandstu

Detritus70 wrote: »

I don't

I am skeptical but it does look as though it may well have been intentional.

I would expect whoever designed it to come forward and clear it up but that seems unlikely

So we are left with "if it walks like a duck"

12gauge dave

Detritus70 wrote: »

Well, it's just as well that you out yourself as a Nazi to clean up any confusion.



For your edification, so you can't claim ignorance anymore. So if you continue to support the Rs, you know where you're at.
In any case I am glad to be of help in your extremely limited education.
Maybe knowing all the facts will prevent you from foolishly chosing politcally radical parties with zero substance behind them.
Of course this is all rather taxing, maybe you're distracted by all the loud noises and flashing lights, most people on the right are, since their reasoning abilities are, by default, quite limited. it comes with the territory.
Let me know if you need help with anything I wrote, points that are unclear, longer words I can help explain, just drop me a line.

And I don't care one iota about unproven. That is clear as day. I will not accept any argument to the contrary.

I am a nazi because of the shape of a stage?

And you will not accept any argument to the contrary?

I should be offended but I'm used to such accusations on boards lately so not one bit shocked.

There is conspiracy forum on boards aswell I suggest you take a look over there for this stage nonsense.

serfboard

amandstu wrote: »

I am skeptical but it does look as though it may well have been intentional.

The GOP have spent decades dog-whistling racists. Now they're dog-whistling white supremacists/Nazis.

They are experts at this stuff - those who know the symbols and hidden meanings of what's being said, understand them perfectly, and are re-asssured that they are being addressed.

And of course, there's total deniability when it's pointed out - "I'm outraged that you'd think we meant that".

In a way you could nearly admire it for how cleverly it's done, if you weren't nauseated by the import of it.

kowloon

I still don't think the stage was on purpose, I reckon someone just liked the shape and didn't think about it. I noticed when talking about it one of the stories I read had a list of "white supremacist symbols" and the Celtic cross was one of them. That was something I hadn't heard before.

Quin_Dub

kowloon wrote: »

I still don't think the stage was on purpose, I reckon someone just liked the shape and didn't think about it. I noticed when talking about it one of the stories I read had a list of "white supremacist symbols" and the Celtic cross was one of them. That was something I hadn't heard before.

On first blush , that view makes a lot of sense and in isolation would be a totally acceptable explanation, but this isn't the 1st time we've seen this kind of oblique dog whistling nods to the extreme right.

It's not the 2nd or 3rd time either.

At some stage you have to seriously consider that they really aren't all just a terribly unfortunate series of coincidences.

I mean - Where are the photos of that time that through a simple unfortunate coincidence, a GOP event used a motif/symbol commonly associated with Gay Pride for example???

12gauge dave

Tell me how wrote: »

This, in a nutshell, is a synopsis of just how fcuked up politics is at the moment, and while the conversation here is specifically related to the US, this mind set has inflicted discourse elsewhere around the world at the moment.

Within just a coupe of sentences of 1 post, you both admit that your knowledge of Nazism is limited to that which you have watched on movies, and that this is 'tin foil hat for the Dems' implying that any concerns are some sort of conspiracy theory.

When I was younger, I naively believed that the world had gotten to a place where people with such ignorance would be laughed out of the conversation but unfortunately, we have seen in recent years that there are all too many available to push such ignorance as nearly being laudable and that the people with knowledge and awareness of how evil minds rose to power in the past are conspiracy theorists and shouldn't be listened to.

I don't think I have 'enjoyed' posting here for probably over a year at this point but I find myself drawn in to conversations because I think it is important not to allow voices of regression, hatred, and in some cases, absolute categorical jaw-dropping ignorance to gain a foothold which unfortunately, I fear is happening anyway.

Yes any concerns of the stage shape are conspiracy theories my dear friend and there is a forum on boards for such talk I believe.

Forgive my ignorance on nazi symbols.
You all seem very dissapointed that a right winger is not up to scratch on nazism maybe you could all get me up to scratch with you vast knowledge on the subject.

Tell me how

12gauge dave wrote: »

Yes any concerns of the stage shape are conspiracy theories my dear friend and there is a forum on boards for such talk I believe.

Forgive my ignorance on nazi symbols.
You all seem very dissapointed that a right winger is not up to scratch on nazism maybe you could all get me up to scratch with you vast knowledge on the subject.

You have no business suggesting something belongs in the conspiracy theory when simultaneously saying you are ignorant on the topic.

Do you have any idea how it makes you look to do so?

duploelabs

12gauge dave wrote: »

Yes any concerns of the stage shape are conspiracy theories my dear friend and there is a forum on boards for such talk I believe.

Forgive my ignorance on nazi symbols.
You all seem very dissapointed that a right winger is not up to scratch on nazism maybe you could all get me up to scratch with you vast knowledge on the subject.

"Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it." George Santayana

Detritus70

duploelabs wrote: »

"Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it." George Santayana

If this wasn't your average, every day Trump supporter that the GOP is now chasing very hard, I'd be inclined to let it go.
But I do not believe in coincidence in this case.
The GOP is now the party of the looney, hard-right fringe.
Remembver, some of those are very fine people. Stand back and stand by. Go home, we love you.
No, I don't accept an argument on the contrary, because it's dog whistling. Pure and simple and anyone telling me otherwise is either p*ssing down my back or has absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Leroy42

Also, issues have been brought up in the past, where they claimed innocence. You would think, given the previous issues, that they would be awake to any possibility of stepping into another issue.

So they are either doing it on purpose, or they don't care enough to bother to check.

The former is worse, but the latter is hardly a ringing endorsement of a party that wants to rule the country.

kowloon

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I mean - Where are the photos of that time that through a simple unfortunate coincidence, a GOP event used a motif/symbol commonly associated with Gay Pride for example???

Fair point, although you could argue that nobody is putting the same effort into looking for other symbols and also that they select designs that display strength and power rather than rainbows and equality, though that would suggest they're kind of going down the totalitarian route anyway.

I'd love to know exactly what went on behind the scenes but I think we have more chance of finding out what dirt Trump has on Graham and Cruz to keep them so obedient.

pixelburp

I think the problem with this entire avenue of discussion is that it can't be proven either way: as smoking guns go, it's essentially pinning the ideological deviance of the GOP on some set dressing. It's ... tenuous, and that's speaking as someone who generally DOES believe the GOP nose-dived headlong into embracing its extreme corners for the sake of power. It also reframes the GOP's critics as wingnuts and obsessives, hysterical types easily ignored. No more than we ourselves did here, when some tried to claim a tattoo on one of the Washington insurrectionists was that of an ANTIFA logo (as opposed to a tattoo of a video-game logo).

What possible value exists in something that winking? What is it supposed to be saying - and is it saying it to the CPAC audience or those looking in from other perspectives? I'm not disingenuously pretending to not know the Nazis as others tried, but even as someone who'd consider themselves fairly savvy on the subject of WW2, didn't recognise the symbol in question. It just feels a touch too histrionic, a little too embracing of conspiracy rather than the unfortunate truth that for a party skirting too close to right-wing insurrectionists, it was a coincidentally poor choice of design.

There's more than enough ammunition to bury the GOP and its further attempts to erode the structures of American democracy, without indulging in conspiracy.

Timberrrrrrrr

12gauge dave wrote: »

Yes any concerns of the stage shape are conspiracy theories my dear friend and there is a forum on boards for such talk I believe.

Forgive my ignorance on nazi symbols.
You all seem very dissapointed that a right winger is not up to scratch on nazism maybe you could all get me up to scratch with you vast knowledge on the subject.

You know for a fact that there is, you post there often enough.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: 12gauge dave will be taking a break. Please make sure posts are original and constructive. Thanks.

Tell me how

pixelburp wrote: »

I think the problem with this entire avenue of discussion is that it can't be proven either way: as smoking guns go, it's essentially pinning the ideological deviance of the GOP on some set dressing. It's ... tenuous, and that's speaking as someone who generally DOES believe the GOP nose-dived headlong into embracing its extreme corners for the sake of power. It also reframes the GOP's critics as wingnuts and obsessives, hysterical types easily ignored. No more than we ourselves did here, when some tried to claim a tattoo on one of the Washington insurrectionists was that of an ANTIFA logo (as opposed to a tattoo of a video-game logo).

What possible value exists in something that winking? What is it supposed to be saying - and is it saying it to the CPAC audience or those looking in from other perspectives? I'm not disingenuously pretending to not know the Nazis as others tried, but even as someone who'd consider themselves fairly savvy on the subject of WW2, didn't recognise the symbol in question. It just feels a touch too histrionic, a little too embracing of conspiracy rather than the unfortunate truth that for a party skirting too close to right-wing insurrectionists, it was a coincidentally poor choice of design.

There's more than enough ammunition to bury the GOP and its further attempts to erode the structures of American democracy, without indulging in conspiracy.

I'm being pedantic in relation to terminology here, but I don't think it was a choice of design, but rather it was their designed choice.

The side platforms served no function, they had no stairs or feature other than to complete a specific shape. Even the way their ends don't extend to the outer edge of the square part is the same way as the odal rune.

It created a small but not completely unlikely fall risk as people had to not walk in an unnatural direction to/from the entrance to the stage and the lectern and the cut outs probably made it more expensive than a regular angled or square stage. Given the people involved, the current climate in relation to such topics and the state in which it happened, I've no doubt but this was intentional.

Quin_Dub

kowloon wrote: »

Fair point, although you could argue that nobody is putting the same effort into looking for other symbols and also that they select designs that display strength and power rather than rainbows and equality, though that would suggest they're kind of going down the totalitarian route anyway.

I'd love to know exactly what went on behind the scenes but I think we have more chance of finding out what dirt Trump has on Graham and Cruz to keep them so obedient.

Disagree on that point - I think that if the twitterati had the opportunity to mock the GOP for inadvertently using an LGBTQ symbol or whatever , they'd be all over it.

Agree with the rest of your points though.