Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Smacruairi

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

I think the work in schools for children with additional needs is essential and therefore the risk should be managed and regulated like other environments.

Grand so you'll be on the blower to Madigan demanding contact tracing, ppe, testing, increased sick leave for covid reasons to support these essential services, maybe actually putting them on the same level as hse employees not in direct contact with the disease?

History Queen

paddyirish23 wrote: »

We all take a risk leaving our home. I get they might have a family member who is vulnerable as a lot of ppl do but even if they got the vaccine, it wouldn't stop transmission from them to their family member so something has to give, or do they not want to go back until everyone has been vaccinated? Yrs at our governments rate

I said I think those in higher risk settings such as SNAs and teachers in special schools should be prioritised. I specifically said I wouldn't expect to be prioritised. I don't think everyone needs to be prioritised but those in higher risk settings should be.

History Queen

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

Numbers are coming down now quite steadily. R number below 1.

Unregulated risky Christmas meet ups are over, things are stabilising the community. Some way to go in hospitals.

I think the work in schools for children with additional needs is essential and therefore the risk should be managed and regulated like other environments.

How should the risk be managed and regulated?

WicklaBlaa

the kelt wrote: »

Its still community meet ups!

Would it not be better to get all kids back, why risk that?

Do you actually trust this government to do the right thing in this situation?

If teachers are essential workers why not move them up the vaccination list for example rather than 3rd last behind lorry drivers for example.

Im actually an essential worker and havent been in my office since last March where essential work is being carried out

Of course it would be better to get all kids back. Fingers crossed for February.

No I don't trust the government tbf. But other workers have had to step up and get it done despite crappy support from their Departments.
We're in a pandemic, everything is less than perfect.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

I'd love to know how many of the people complaining about schools being closed, tut tutting about SNAs not wanting to risk returning to work, posting on social media about it etc are also the people who attended parties over Christmas, crammed into shebeens, collected family members from Belfast Airport, turned a blind eye to them meeting up with friends when they were meant to be isolating and basically helped create a situation where schools couldn't reopen in January.

thomasdylan

downthemiddle wrote: »

Please tell us how many times teachers unions have gone on strike in the last 20 years.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0204/1112962-teachers/

This is the most recent one I could find. Less than 12 months ago. Striking for pay.


The ASTI went on strike for higher pay when I was in school too.

History Queen

thomasdylan wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0204/1112962-teachers/

This is the most recent one I could find. Less than 12 months ago. Striking for pay.


The ASTI went on strike for higher pay when I was in school too.

Amazing how we have big powerful unions on one hand but the same pay dispute continuing for a decade on the other. Anyway I'm shutting up about it now because I'm guilty of bringing it up in the first place and now it is derailing the thread.

the kelt

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

Of course it would be better to get all kids back. Fingers crossed for February.

No I don't trust the government tbf. But other workers have had to step up and get it done despite crappy support from their Departments.
We're in a pandemic, everything is less than perfect.

And what about the parents who dont feel comfortable sending their kids back, in the middle of a pandemic but will lose all their supports if they want to have their kids at home?

Is it right to force parents to send their kids to school to get support when in the worst stage of this pandemic they would prefer not to?

Is it ok to have some kids with full support leaving others with non at all?

thomasdylan

Smacruairi wrote: »

Nurses were on strike at start of 2019.doctors voted to strike in 2021. Everything else you're saying is deflection.

I don't think it's deflection. You just don't like what I'm saying.

If the IMO were as strong and as willing to go on strike as the ASTI doctors wouldn't work 24+ shifts and 80 hour weeks.

Teachers work less and strike more than doctors. That's a fact.

WicklaBlaa

Smacruairi wrote: »

Grand so you'll be on the blower to Madigan demanding contact tracing, ppe, testing, increased sick leave for covid reasons to support these essential services, maybe actually putting them on the same level as hse employees not in direct contact with the disease?

We're all entitled to pretty good covid sick pay - wont go into details. It's online.

I do support increasing PPe fund absolutely but also support schools reopening for children with additional needs.

Same level as HSE workers who have never worked a day from home all year and work in most dangerous environments, No i dont agree. Sorry.

Smacruairi

thomasdylan wrote: »

.

If the IMO were as strong and as willing to go on strike as the ASTI doctors wouldn't work 24+ shifts and 80 hour weeks.
.

They actually went on strikr for that. Remember 24 no more? How did that go? Did the govt hold up their promise on thst one? Did you support the nurses when they went on strike too?

You don't like teachers, that's grand. But lucky for you the doctors are paid much more. But it seems you also support 80 hour weeks too so I dunno.

Windorah

I haven't engaged with any of these threads since the first wave and back then the level of vitriol aimed at teachers was, I felt, totally unjustified. But honestly, the last couple of days have left me mortified and ashamed of my Special Education colleagues...I understand some people have very valid concerns but there is a cohort that refused to even entertain the idea of returning to the classroom. Norma went about this all wrong and her lack of communication and the press leaks was a rookie mistake but I strongly believe we could have made this work.

downthemiddle

thomasdylan wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0204/1112962-teachers/

This is the most recent one I could find. Less than 12 months ago. Striking for pay.


The ASTI went on strike for higher pay when I was in school too.

You have failed to answer my question.

the kelt

Kiana Jealous Teamwork wrote: »

I'd love to know how many of the people complaining about schools being closed, tut tutting about SNAs not wanting to risk returning to work, posting on social media about it etc are also the people who attended parties over Christmas, crammed into shebeens, collected family members from Belfast Airport, turned a blind eye to them meeting up with friends when they were meant to be isolating and basically helped create a situation where schools couldn't reopen in January.

Well theres one whos on boards previously asking about how active the 105 mins sitting down in a pub thing cos they wanted to book a table to watch the all ireland final!

paddyirish23

History Queen wrote: »

I said I think those in higher risk settings such as SNAs and teachers in special schools should be prioritised. I specifically said I wouldn't expect to be prioritised. I don't think everyone needs to be prioritised but those in higher risk settings should be.

In that case my son should be right in there with them getting the vaccine as should all kids going back. Now you can see the dilemma pushing teachers up the list creates. Are they more important than their pupils?
Time to leave this as its just a revolving door with no one accepting blame or looking for a fix.
I'm disappointed with teachers, their unions, the government, all of them for playing politics with my son's basic right of education being kicked around like a football.
Ireland really has turned into a shambles of a country if we can't agree to get basics right, health and education should never be allowed to get where they are now.
All the above should hang their heads in shame for what's currently happening.
Good luck.

Smacruairi

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

Same level as HSE workers who have never worked a day from home all year and work in most dangerous environments, No i dont agree. Sorry.

So Secretary on phone gets vaccine, but a sna up close and personal with kid doesn't.

Grand.

History Queen

paddyirish23 wrote: »

In that case my son should be right in there with them getting the vaccine as should all kids going back. Now you can see the dilemma pushing teachers up the list creates. Are they more important than their pupils?
Time to leave this as its just a revolving door with no one accepting blame or looking for a fix.
I'm disappointed with teachers, their unions, the government, all of them for playing politics with my son's basic right of education being kicked around like a football.
Ireland really has turned into a shambles of a country if we can't agree to get basics right, health and education should never be allowed to get where they are now.
All the above should hang their heads in shame for what's currently happening.
Good luck.

I think the vaccine hasn't been approved for children yet? But I could stand to be corrected on that. That is the only reason I didn't mention the students. If I'm wrong of course they should also be prioritised.

Edit: I hope this is resolved sooner rather than later but scapegoating teachers and SNAs for wanting improved safety isn't fair. Best wishes to your son and your family.

khalessi

History Queen wrote: »

I think the vaccine hasn't been approved for children yet? But I could stand to be corrected on that. That is the only reason I didn't mention the students. If I'm wrong of course they should also be prioritised.

Edit: I hope this is resolved sooner rather than later but scapegoating teachers and SNAs for wanting improved safety isn't fair. Best wishes to your son and your family.

Children and pregnant women are the last group as they have to see how it goes.

The way they have it organised is mad. My niece is 17 so she cannot get it under the vunerable category as classified a child and will have to wait.

Very worrying could be months

iguana

billy_beckham wrote: »

Utterly irrelevant? Public health advice is still the same. The new strain was not solely the reason things got worse, people went mad in the run up to Christmas. Daily case numbers probably never reflect infection rates (asymptomatic)

You are mixing up two completely different points. The reason things got worse is that we opened up during the second wave and restarted it. However while behaviour caused the current spike in numbers, it also allowed the BR117 strain to take hold and become dominant. BR117 is now the dominant strain here and it is significantly more infectious. What just about worked in October is very much irrelevant now because the reality of what we are dealing with is different.

billy_beckham wrote: »

R number 0.6 and "maybe" schools can open?? Jeez..

Not liking reality doesn't change it. It sucks but it's where we are. Hopefully the EMA will approve O/Az and Jansenn very soon and hopefully they will prove every bit as effective against this new strain. So the reality will become one where schools can open without driving infection.

And hopefully if one of the other variants that has emerged or may emerge in the future, is vaccine resistant, we will learn from what has happened this time. And ensure that we don't end up with another dominant strain.

WicklaBlaa

We'll be back here in two weeks when schools are due to be reopening. The same arguments being made for staying shut.

No real solutions being offered. Conditions are never perfect but these are unprecedented times.

iguana

khalessi wrote: »

Children and pregnant women are the last group as they have to see how it goes.

No vaccine manufacturer has completed paediatric testing yet. Pfizer Biontech and Moderna have begun trials on 12-17 year olds but they are not completed. There are currently no plans to start testing 0-11 year olds.

Smacruairi

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

We'll be back here in two weeks when schools are due to be reopening. The same arguments being made for staying shut.

No real solutions being offered. Conditions are never perfect but these are unprecedented times.

I know it's almost like the minister who runs the DES should have used the last year to develop a plan for various scenarios rather than just doing nothing. Then we wouldn't be going round in circles.

History Queen

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

We'll be back here in two weeks when schools are due to be reopening. The same arguments being made for staying shut.

No real solutions being offered. Conditions are never perfect but these are unprecedented times.

God I hope not. Schools need to open. Kids need their teachers. Has any real consideration been given to dividing the student cohort in two and providing week on/week off tuition? Or every second day or whatever makes it work?

WicklaBlaa

Smacruairi wrote: »

So Secretary on phone gets vaccine, but a sna up close and personal with kid doesn't.

Grand.

Secretaries don't just talk on the phone to patients but you know this. They come to work in hospitals everyday, places with the most outbreaks and deal with colleagues and sick patients.

They are vital to the running of hospitals. Please be respectful to other workers.

MacDanger

Smacruairi wrote: »

So Secretary on phone gets vaccine, but a sna up close and personal with kid doesn't.

Grand.

Do you not understand why the admissions "secretary" (as you put it) in a hospital is a higher priority than anyone in a teaching environment?

iguana

History Queen wrote: »

God I hope not. Schools need to open. Kids need their teachers. Has any real consideration been given to dividing the student cohort in two and providing week on/week off tuition? Or every second day or whatever makes it work?

The Department of Education seems to have only planned for schools as they were or not at all. That's the utter summation of what they have planned and what they will allow. So even in cases where teachers/principals/BoMs have proposed these kinds of changes, the department won't even consider it.

penny piper

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think that is very unfair on some parents. Clearly they judge the positives would outweigh the negatives. And in truth probably the little bit of respite they get helps them to be better parents. It's impossible to be on duty 24-7. Also they may have other children to consider . There was a doctor on some news programme yesterday saying her child with special needs physically hurts her other child. I wouldn't like to make a judgement call for a parent in that situation. Tough as tough can be to be in that situation.

I think it's very unfair of the parents attitude to the teachers/snas who are expected to go to work in a clearly unsafe environment....

I saw the rte news where the Doctor took part....she also employes someone to mind her children... I didn't see her that disadvantaged ...

penny piper

MacDanger wrote: »

Do you not understand why the admissions "secretary" (as you put it) in a hospital is a higher priority than anyone in a teaching environment?

No

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

God I hope not. Schools need to open. Kids need their teachers. Has any real consideration been given to dividing the student cohort in two and providing week on/week off tuition? Or every second day or whatever makes it work?

Blended solution was mentioned in the reopening schools document In July '20. Never mentioned since.

Norma is obviously totally against anything that she doesn't come up with.

thomasdylan

Smacruairi wrote: »

They actually went on strikr for that. Remember 24 no more? How did that go? Did the govt hold up their promise on thst one? Did you support the nurses when they went on strike too?

You don't like teachers, that's grand. But lucky for you the doctors are paid much more. But it seems you also support 80 hour weeks too so I dunno.

How could you infer I support 80 hour weeks from this. You don't seem to be actually reading anything I'm writing.

I do remember 24 no more. I was out on the pickets for it. People are still working 24+ hours in almost every hospital in Ireland.

Doctors probably aren't paid much more or any more btw until you hit SpR level when you count hours worked and leave. 26 day leave vs. ??. Starting salary is the same for doctors and teachers (this is recent, teachers had started on more up until last year I think).

Look this isn't an argument worth having.