Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Stateofyou

khalessi wrote: »

like a big hole in the centre of the screen so rendering it pointless but was pointless anyway as airborne infection.

Now,I would buy air purifiers/filters for each room and UV machines remote control units that move about the room like a roomba emitting uv lights and killing germs. Each room would get done daily but sure hindsight n all.

Do these actually exist? That sounds like a good investment for our schools if so. This virus in all it's mutated forms may be with us for some time to come. The government need to get serious about control measures.

Anything4883

Teachers - ''I dont feel safe going to work''

Nurses- '' Ehhh HELLO? ''

lulublue22

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think they is very unfair on some parents. Clearly they judge the positives would outweigh the negatives. And in truth probably the little bit of respite they get helps them to be better parents. It's impossible to be on duty 24-7. Also they may have other children to consider . There was a doctor on some news programme yesterday saying her child with special needs physically hurts her other child. I wouldn't like to make a judgement call for a parent in that situation. Tough as tough can be to be in that situation.

That’s were HSE needs to step in - respite and or ancillary services - it’s not an educational need and that’s not to undermine the stress and anxiety of parents in that situation. Additional supports for parents in that situation have been grossly underfunded / lacking for years.

Stateofyou

paddyirish23 wrote: »

Listen, don't come have a go at me because I didn't choose to teach in a small classroom with 30 odd kids, if you don't like it plenty other profession's out there for you, I suggest you find one that suits you.
If I told you I was a doctor or nurse you'd still have a smart remark I'm certain.
Go back to work in classes, irish teachers are not any more special than their European counterparts. As for wanting to jump the queue for a vaccine, that tells me enough about those teachers who deem themselves more a priority than someone who's vulnerable.

You've lost the run of yourself and your manners.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Anything4883 wrote: »

Teachers - ''I dont feel safe going to work''

Nurses- '' Ehhh HELLO? ''

Nurses- yay we're gonna get vaccinated quickly

Teachers- "ehhh HELLO? Group 11/14 here

khalessi

Anything4883 wrote: »

Teachers - ''I dont feel safe going to work''

Nurses- '' Ehhh HELLO? ''

Yawn


As a nurse who is now a teacher that is not the case at all. Please see previous point about comparing these jobs and they are not the same. thank you for your input

Stateofyou

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I had been leaning my blame towards the government until I heard Andy Pike on the radio with Claire Byrne this morning. He was asked a straight forward question on what conditions would be acceptable for his members to return to school and his response was some well articulated hog wash. At this point he should have those conditions in black and white. The same interview made me question how engaged union reps are with their members.




I think the push from parents and associations for children with special needs to get back to school shows that any 'negative feelings' they might have would be comprehensively outweighed by the benefits they get from their normal routine and the support structures they get in classrooms.

Many parents of children with special needs have also been vocal about not sending their kids back yet and especially as many would have underlying conditions. You are painting everyone with the same brush which is just not a productive avenue to go down.

thomasdylan

Smacruairi wrote: »

Why would the association of secondary teachers get involved in primary childcare. It has nothing to do with them. The same way we don't comment on doctors voting to strike because they wanted a payrise to consultant level, or the whole student nurses debacle.

Marko, you are seeing reds under the bed again my friend and you are losing your cool.

I'm pretty sure I explained this to you before. Maybe it was someone else.

Public health doctors in Ireland have completed specialist training, the same as consultants in other specialties. Ireland is the only country I know that doesn't count public health doctors as specialist consultants. The Crowe-Horvath report was commissioned a few years ago that said public helath doctors need to be recognised as consultants and the government committed to it.

Its like if it was decided many years ago that Geography teachers weren't proper teachers and should be paid less than other teachers.

intellectual dosser

khalessi wrote: »

The children I have in resource would question where everyone else is. One of the children who has Down Syndrome is very popular in his class and rules the games on the yard, so I think for that child it would be very difficult.

Another child I am thinking of has Autism and on yard interacts in a limited way with the other children but will come up and discuss what they are doing and watches the footballs for when they go out out bounds so they can kick them back, so there would be questions about the empty school from that child too.

I do think they would feel very marginalised especially since our whole policy is based on inclusion and they would want to know why they were back and others not.

Also the children who I teach numeracy and literacy to would no longer have had any support as I would have been onsite.

In your opinion would children with special needs be better off staying at home or getting back into their classroom in some capacity. Yes or No if you could.

billy_beckham

iguana wrote: »

Unfortunately what worked in October is utterly irrelevant as the BR117 strain is now dominant. We could just about keep schools open and maintain an R0 below 1, as long as most other parts of society were closed, with the 'original' strain. With BR117, the R0 must first get to under 0.6 to have any hope of schools and nothing else, being open. To actually know what our R0 number is now, we need to go back to testing close contacts. We know that Covid infections mainly happen at home but we aren't currently even testing the people who live with newly confirmed cases. That means our daily case number is almost certainly quite a bit higher than that which we currently see.

Once we can go back to testing close contacts, get a truer picture of our daily case numbers and see that the R0 is below 0.6, school may be able to safely reopen. And even then, it may turn out that the R0 shoots back up with schools open as we don't truly know enough about BR117. What worked in October just doesn't have any bearing on our current state because the dominant virus is just so much more significantly infectious.

Utterly irrelevant? Public health advice is still the same. The new strain was not solely the reason things got worse, people went mad in the run up to Christmas. Daily case numbers probably never reflect infection rates (asymptomatic)

R number 0.6 and "maybe" schools can open?? Jeez..

Smacruairi

thomasdylan wrote: »

The Crowe-Horvath report was commissioned a few years ago that said public helath doctors need to be recognised as consultants and the government committed to it.
.

Oh so honouring commitments for pay for doctors is OK, but not for student nurses. Or for schools for safety measures like contact tracing.

Thanks for clarifying.

History Queen

paddyirish23 wrote: »

And if they have underlying conditions then they will still be priority so I'm not sure where you going with that?

Oh that's true about the underlying conditions. Brain blip on my behalf. What do you think of the rest of my post?

Stateofyou

Anything4883 wrote: »

Teachers - ''I dont feel safe going to work''

Nurses- '' Ehhh HELLO? ''

Your insightful wisdom in comparing apples to oranges astounds us.

Mrsmum

lulublue22 wrote: »

That’s were HSE needs to step in - respite and or ancillary services - it’s not an educational need and that’s not to undermine the stress and anxiety of parents in that situation. Additional supports for parents in that situation have been grossly underfunded / lacking for years.

I'm not disputing that at all. But we are where we are right now and I was just a bit agast at the poster being "gobsmacked" that these parents might clutch at what was being offered. I'm more gobsmacked that they manage to cope at all.

thomasdylan

Smacruairi wrote: »

Oh so honouring commitments for pay for doctors is OK, but not for student nurses. Or for schools for safety measures like contact tracing.

Thanks for clarifying.

Err, I didn't say any of that did I?

Youre making up an argument there. Very strange.

CapriciousOne

Already been posted by in this thread I believe, but considering this study/data was only released yesterday in the UK I wouldn't be surprised to see SEN closures over there too.

https://twitter.com/NEUnion/status/1351592146856529920

History Queen

thomasdylan wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I explained this to you before. Maybe it was someone else.

Public health doctors in Ireland have completed specialist training, the same as consultants in other specialties. Ireland is the only country I know that doesn't count public health doctors as specialist consultants. The Crowe-Horvath report was commissioned a few years ago that said public helath doctors need to be recognised as consultants and the government committed to it.

Its like if it was decided many years ago that Geography teachers weren't proper teachers and should be paid less than other teachers.

Or paying teachers post 2011 less money over the course of their career less than their pre 2011 counterparts. Even though a good cohort of post 2011 may actually be higher qualified due to the conversion of the HDip to masters.

Stateofyou

intellectual dosser wrote: »

In your opinion would children with special needs be better off staying at home or getting back into their classroom in some capacity. Yes or No if you could.

It's not a straightforward yes or no.

It obviously begins with yes.

Then you look at reality. Are we in a period of high transmission (recently worst in the WORLD), overstretched hospitals, and more virulent strains? With an improperly functioning test and trace system? Must health and life and protecting the HSE come first? Have health experts said schools should remain closed during periods of high transmission?

Yes or no on those if you could.

intellectual dosser

Stateofyou wrote: »

Many parents of children with special needs have also been vocal about not sending their kids back yet and especially as many would have underlying conditions. You are painting everyone with the same brush which is just not a productive avenue to go down.

On the contrary, if some parents wouldn't send their kids back to a classroom thats ok, but that shouldnt put all parents in that situation.

I've asked a very straight forward question to a vocal contributor. It hasnt been answered, just like the straight forward questions being put to union reps.

thomasdylan

History Queen wrote: »

Or paying teachers post 2011 less money over the course of their career less than their pre 2011 counterparts. Even though a good cohort of post 2011 may actually be higher qualified due to the conversion of the HDip to masters.

That's not quite the same. There's a small group on a completely different salary scale and have been for 30 years.


The whole public sector is on two salary scales, not just teachers. Public heath doctors aren't asking for the pre-2011 contract either.

Anything4883

Anything4883 wrote: »

Teachers - ''I dont feel safe going to work''

Nurses- '' Ehhh HELLO? ''

Government to electorate : stay at home, visit nobody, don't allow anyone even into your front outdoor garden..this is a deadly Virus that is highly efficient, infectious and incredibly airborne..don't even think about click and collect!!!

Government to Teachers : you Guys are fine, I mean besides the faulty and possibly dangerous hand sanitizer we gave you and despite not even considering you for a vaccine yet...you can trust us , while standing in the convention Centre wearing masks and sitting 10mtrs apart at the very least!!!

intellectual dosser

Stateofyou wrote: »

It's not a straightforward yes or no.

It obviously begins with yes.

Then you look at reality. Are we in a period of high transmission (recently worst in the WORLD), overstretched hospitals, and more virulent strains? With an improperly functioning test and trace system? Must health and life and protecting the HSE come first? Have health experts said schools should remain closed during periods of high transmission?

Yes or no on those if you could.

Lots of blurry questions there to be honest. Yes we're in a period of high transmission. The one on bold is distinct and the health experts have stated repeatedly that schools are safe, so No?

Smacruairi

thomasdylan wrote: »

That's not quite the same. There's a small group on a completely different salary scale and have been for 30 years.


The whole public sector is on two salary scales, not just teachers. Public heath doctors aren't asking for the pre-2011 contract either.

So you support the eradication of the 2tier system. Good.

Smacruairi

rusty cole wrote: »

Government to electorate : stay at home, visit nobody, don't allow anyone even into your front outdoor garden..this is a deadly Virus that is highly efficient, infectious and incredibly airborne..don't even think about click and collect!!!

Government to Teachers : you Guys are fine, I mean besides the faulty and possibly dangerous hand sanitizer we gave you and despite not even considering you for a vaccine yet...you can trust us , while standing in the convention Centre wearing masks and sitting 10mtrs apart at the very least!!!

I had actually forgotten about the hand sanitiser!!!!

Stateofyou

intellectual dosser wrote: »

On the contrary, if some parents wouldn't send their kids back to a classroom thats ok, but that shouldnt put all parents in that situation.

I've asked a very straight forward question to a vocal contributor. It hasnt been answered, just like the straight forward questions being put to union reps.

I feel like you aren't reading posts here from SN teachers. I have and I learned that if they were made to go to school tomorrow, there would be a whole cohort of sn students that were benefitting from online teaching that would have that support then pulled. There should be contingency plans for the different cohorts. Not forgetting non-special need mainstream pupils. They all matter. But there has never been a comprehensive, hybrid remote learning plan from the DES/Minister. All parents are at the mercy of the Minister's lack of planning.

I answered in a straightforward manner. You didn't answer mine I'll note.

Union reps have put out a straight shooting document about what is needed. Did you not read that either?

Anything4883

khalessi wrote: »

Yawn


As a nurse who is now a teacher that is not the case at all. Please see previous point about comparing these jobs and they are not the same. thank you for your input

Im not comparing jobs..... Im saying, if nurses took the same approach, that they dont want to go into their place of work because they didnt feel safe.... where would we be?

And dont try and convince me that Tecahers teaching online is the same as school classroom teaching.

Birdy

Lots of teachers and SNA's posting here throughout the morning while they should be engaging with their pupils.

Stateofyou

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Lots of blurry questions there to be honest. Yes we're in a period of high transmission. The one on bold is distinct and the health experts have stated repeatedly that schools are safe, so No?

Okay - so it seems there's some mixed messaging and chaotic leadership, doesn't it? And it's unacceptable.

That aside, I don't know if health experts have said repeatedly schools are safe. What have NPHET said? I'm not sure.
Holohan says "relatively safe." And it times of lower transmission. Others such as Mike Ryan of WHO says they are not safe in periods of high transmission. Everyone else is a politician spouting "schools are safe" mantra, not health experts?

thomasdylan

Smacruairi wrote: »

So you support the eradication of the 2tier system. Good.

That's the second time you've managed to see something that isn't there.

WicklaBlaa

thomasdylan wrote: »

That's not quite the same. There's a small group on a completely different salary scale and have been for 30 years.


The whole public sector is on two salary scales, not just teachers. Public heath doctors aren't asking for the pre-2011 contract either.

Yes you would think the 2 tier pay only affects teachers due to their forceful unions , but actually applies to ALL public sector workers.

Completely mad teachers throwing it out when it's irrelevant to current situation.

Teachers are extremely well paid when compared to others in Europe.