Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Icyseanfitz

threescompany wrote: »

I have a question for those that believe main strain schools should open in a limited capacity - ie those receiving in class learning support & attending the special class going back to school.

How do you think a child retuning to school tomorrow seeing only a few children walking through the gates would feel? Would they feel marginalised? Would they feel different to their peers? Is it fair to bring them in when they know it’s unsafe for the rest of their classmates?

this, 100% this

jrosen

Stateofyou wrote: »

Ours doesn't, my siblings, cousins and friends school don't. I also read a robust thread online talking about this months ago, and out of hundreds of comments I only saw a very few saying they did but even one of them said it's ridiculous and children still come up to the desk.

Cant speak for secondary but primary the kids are not allowed go to the teachers desk. I know he enforces it but he does go desk to desk when needed to help and then mask and visor is used. Some classroom rules are obviously needed.

History Queen

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Thats not the case in the schools I know in England and Wales but that lot shouldn't be hard to implement

Might not be weekly mass testing but no reason why it couldn't be every second week

Not all the special schools in England are open but I can't find why or what the criteria is, also not all students who would ordinarily attend special schools have returned, again I haven't been able to find clear criteria. I know your knowledge is anecdotal from your family members but do you happen to know?

Sofa King Great

A couple of questions for teachers:

Do you feel the students are receiving the same level of educational development via remote learning as they would normally?

If not, how would we go about rectifying that/catching up?

threescompany

I watched the prime time programme last night and I cannot believe that a mother would advocate sending her child to school under the current situation. Although being at home is FAR from ideal. Their situation is very difficult & It’s hard work all day I’m sure, but while Covid is rampant in this country, how can it even be contemplated? I was gobsmacked. Families are primary caregivers.

In the present situation, education has to come second (even if that means regression for a few months) and primary care and health takes presence in my opinion.

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

Like in a supermarket where people can pay?

like a big hole in the centre of the screen so rendering it pointless but was pointless anyway as airborne infection.

Now,I would buy air purifiers/filters for each room and UV machines remote control units that move about the room like a roomba emitting uv lights and killing germs. Each room would get done daily but sure hindsight n all.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Lillyfae wrote: »

It all goes back to principals being the supply chain manager in the school to me. Totally inappropriate when their background is in education.

Maybe but a teacher going to move from desk to board anyway, be difficult cover it all with perspex. We weren't supposed to move around room either but many did as students need help.

iguana

billy_beckham wrote: »

Back in October cases rates were in the 1,000's, hopefully within the next week we'll be back to that.... Will that suffice I wonder?

Unfortunately what worked in October is utterly irrelevant as the BR117 strain is now dominant. We could just about keep schools open and maintain an R0 below 1, as long as most other parts of society were closed, with the 'original' strain. With BR117, the R0 must first get to under 0.6 to have any hope of schools and nothing else, being open. To actually know what our R0 number is now, we need to go back to testing close contacts. We know that Covid infections mainly happen at home but we aren't currently even testing the people who live with newly confirmed cases. That means our daily case number is almost certainly quite a bit higher than that which we currently see.

Once we can go back to testing close contacts, get a truer picture of our daily case numbers and see that the R0 is below 0.6, school may be able to safely reopen. And even then, it may turn out that the R0 shoots back up with schools open as we don't truly know enough about BR117. What worked in October just doesn't have any bearing on our current state because the dominant virus is just so much more significantly infectious.

KrustyUCC

threescompany wrote: »

I have a question for those that believe main strain schools should open in a limited capacity - ie those receiving in class learning support & attending the special class going back to school.

How do you think a child retuning to school tomorrow seeing only a few children walking through the gates would feel? Would they feel marginalised? Would they feel different to their peers? Is it fair to bring them in when they know it’s unsafe for the rest of their classmates?

I really don't think it would register with them once they have their own classmates and were back in school

Even playtime was in their own bubbles and was staggered so not a lot of different children around

paddyirish23

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

great so you can sit in supreme judgement without having any sort of questions regarding your chosen career pitched at you, typical

Listen, don't come have a go at me because I didn't choose to teach in a small classroom with 30 odd kids, if you don't like it plenty other profession's out there for you, I suggest you find one that suits you.
If I told you I was a doctor or nurse you'd still have a smart remark I'm certain.
Go back to work in classes, irish teachers are not any more special than their European counterparts. As for wanting to jump the queue for a vaccine, that tells me enough about those teachers who deem themselves more a priority than someone who's vulnerable.

History Queen

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I really don't think it would register with them once they have their own classmates and were back in school

Even playtime was in their own bubbles and was staggered so not a lot of different children around

For children with additional needs who were returning to mainstream schools they were not returning with classmates. I think that was what this poster was referring to.

intellectual dosser

I had been leaning my blame towards the government until I heard Andy Pike on the radio with Claire Byrne this morning. He was asked a straight forward question on what conditions would be acceptable for his members to return to school and his response was some well articulated hog wash. At this point he should have those conditions in black and white. The same interview made me question how engaged union reps are with their members.

threescompany wrote: »

I have a question for those that believe main strain schools should open in a limited capacity - ie those receiving in class learning support & attending the special class going back to school.

How do you think a child retuning to school tomorrow seeing only a few children walking through the gates would feel? Would they feel marginalised? Would they feel different to their peers? Is it fair to bring them in when they know it’s unsafe for the rest of their classmates?

I think the push from parents and associations for children with special needs to get back to school shows that any 'negative feelings' they might have would be comprehensively outweighed by the benefits they get from their normal routine and the support structures they get in classrooms.

KrustyUCC

History Queen wrote: »

Not all the special schools in England are open but I can't find why or what the criteria is, also not all students who would ordinarily attend special schools have returned, again I haven't been able to find clear criteria. I know your knowledge is anecdotal from your family members but do you happen to know?

My impression is it's up to local management and case numbers in different areas

I'll try to find out but like you say my knowledge is only from talking to family about specific schools

Icyseanfitz

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I really don't think it would register with them once they have their own classmates and were back in school

Even playtime was in their own bubbles and was staggered so not a lot of different children around

of course it would register if only kids with additional needs where brought back to mainstream, the majority of their friends wouldnt be in school.

This is why we bother to use inclusion and differentiated learning in modern learning. So as not to isolate and made SN kids feel different.

khalessi

threescompany wrote: »

I have a question for those that believe main strain schools should open in a limited capacity - ie those receiving in class learning support & attending the special class going back to school.

How do you think a child retuning to school tomorrow seeing only a few children walking through the gates would feel? Would they feel marginalised? Would they feel different to their peers? Is it fair to bring them in when they know it’s unsafe for the rest of their classmates?

The children I have in resource would question where everyone else is. One of the children who has Down Syndrome is very popular in his class and rules the games on the yard, so I think for that child it would be very difficult.

Another child I am thinking of has Autism and on yard interacts in a limited way with the other children but will come up and discuss what they are doing and watches the footballs for when they go out out bounds so they can kick them back, so there would be questions about the empty school from that child too.

I do think they would feel very marginalised especially since our whole policy is based on inclusion and they would want to know why they were back and others not.

Also the children who I teach numeracy and literacy to would no longer have had any support as I would have been onsite.

threescompany

threescompany wrote: »

I have a question for those that believe main strain schools should open in a limited capacity - ie those receiving in class learning support & attending the special class going back to school.

How do you think a child retuning to school tomorrow seeing only a few children walking through the gates would feel? Would they feel marginalised? Would they feel different to their peers? Is it fair to bring them in when they know it’s unsafe for the rest of their classmates?

If only somebody would just think of the children, eh?

Icyseanfitz

paddyirish23 wrote: »

Listen, don't come have a go at me because I didn't choose to teach in a small classroom with 30 odd kids, if you don't like it plenty other profession's out there for you, I suggest you find one that suits you.
If I told you I was a doctor or nurse you'd still have a smart remark I'm certain.
Go back to work in classes, irish teachers are not any more special than their European counterparts. As for wanting to jump the queue for a vaccine, that tells me enough about those teachers who deem themselves more a priority than someone who's vulnerable.

fantastic reply Paddy, best of luck to you

KrustyUCC

History Queen wrote: »

For children with additional needs who were returning to mainstream schools they were not returning with classmates. I think that was what this poster was referring to.

Ah ok picked that up wrong so

Still I don't think it would affect kids that much

Class sizes are limited in the UK for vulnerable kids or those of front line workers so I'd imagine that would be similar here

History Queen

paddyirish23 wrote: »

Listen, don't come have a go at me because I didn't choose to teach in a small classroom with 30 odd kids, if you don't like it plenty other profession's out there for you, I suggest you find one that suits you.
If I told you I was a doctor or nurse you'd still have a smart remark I'm certain.
Go back to work in classes, irish teachers are not any more special than their European counterparts. As for wanting to jump the queue for a vaccine, that tells me enough about those teachers who deem themselves more a priority than someone who's vulnerable.

But lots of teachers across Europe are not working in classes. I think teachers working in higher risk settings such as SNAs and staff of special schools and those with underlying conditions should be prioritised. I can wait, but I work in mainstream and have no underlying conditions or people living with me who are vulnerable.

mohawk

threescompany wrote: »

I have a question for those that believe main strain schools should open in a limited capacity - ie those receiving in class learning support & attending the special class going back to school.

How do you think a child retuning to school tomorrow seeing only a few children walking through the gates would feel? Would they feel marginalised? Would they feel different to their peers? Is it fair to bring them in when they know
it’s unsafe for the rest of their classmates?

You make a good point.
My young lad goes to Mainstream. He is missing school big time. The thing he misses most is his friends. It’s tough enough feeling different because you have Autism or whatever the reason a child needs that extra help without making it so obvious that your different.

I admit to being selfish. When I saw that the plans meant that only some of the kids with additional needs would get to go back I hoped that the plan would fail because right now my son gets 4 30 min zoom calls a week with his SEN teacher just like he would get in school. If the plan had gone ahead he would of be left without this as his teacher would be in school and busy with other students.

This plan for Mainstream prioritised one set of additional needs students over another group.

threescompany

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I really don't think it would register with them once they have their own classmates and were back in school

Even playtime was in their own bubbles and was staggered so not a lot of different children around

I’m shocked! It wouldn’t register with them. How can u say that??? Give these kids some credit! Only about 20% receive learning support in my class, do u not think they’d notice the other 80% absent! The school will be a completely different place, actually a scary environment I would think.
We are hearing everyday STAY AT HOME but then, it’s ok for this small cohort to come in. The kids I’m talking about are children who may be struggling with aspects of the curriculum but by no means have significant difficulties. As I said, it’s hard. It’s far from ideal but every part person in this county has been affected. All kids are struggling with new learning platforms. Many kids who excel in the classroom find the technology & distance learning difficult. Many children who struggle in the classroom prefer the online games and seesaw activities.
I’m not a keyboard warrior here to fight but I truly believe it’s unfair to bring a small cohort back. Unfair on every child because they’re all struggling with this new situation. Let’s hang tight for another month or so.

penny piper

I see a simple solution to the problem....schools, all schools close until after the mid term break....during the break it can be decided if case numbers are down enough (to warrant a safe return to work which will have already agreed with staff/sna/unions/)....

During this time Ms.Foley can inform students what her alternative is to the LC which i'm sure her/dept have been working on....

jimmytwotimes 2013

penny piper wrote: »

I see a simple solution to the problem....schools, all schools close until after the mid term break....during the break it can be decided if case numbers are down enough (to warrant a safe return to work which will have already agreed with staff/sna/unions/)....

During this time Ms.Foley can inform students what her alternative is to the LC which i'm sure her/dept have been working on....

Similar to what scotland announced yesterday but we seem to like the drag the as$ out of everything in this country

Stateofyou

paddyirish23 wrote: »

As it is in every other country but yet we seem to be the only one who can't send 4% of our kids back to school

Wouldn't that speak to the mishandling of the department/minister above all? :rolleyes:

Icyseanfitz

penny piper wrote: »

I see a simple solution to the problem....schools, all schools close until after the mid term break....during the break it can be decided if case numbers are down enough (to warrant a safe return to work which will have already agreed with staff/sna/unions/)....

During this time Ms.Foley can inform students what her alternative is to the LC which i'm sure her/dept have been working on....

instead we will get an announcement tomorrow evening that some portion of the school community is expected back next Thursday, she will have done no consultation with unions or nephet but claim she has, this uncertainty and stress will continue on a weekly basis impacting the level of remote learning until schools are reopened as normal when safe.

Stateofyou

Lillyfae wrote: »

That's the point of having them, so that the children can come up to the desk. That's why they have them in supermarkets, so people can come up to the checkout. It's not a border, it's a screen.

It sounded like the pupils were coming up the side of the screen, they don't always stay behind it... But come on, I didn't really need to point this out did I?

khalessi

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

instead we will get an announcement tomorrow evening that some portion of the school community is expected back next Thursday, she will have done no consultation with unions or nephet but claim she has, this uncertainty and stress will continue on a weekly basis impacting the level of remote learning until schools are reopened as normal when safe.

This must be stuck in her office
https://twitter.com/caitriona_hand/status/1351665700566405123

Mrsmum

threescompany wrote: »

I watched the prime time programme last night and I cannot believe that a mother would advocate sending her child to school under the current situation. Although being at home is FAR from ideal. Their situation is very difficult & It’s hard work all day I’m sure, but while Covid is rampant in this country, how can it even be contemplated? I was gobsmacked. Families are primary caregivers.

In the present situation, education has to come second (even if that means regression for a few months) and primary care and health takes presence in my opinion.

I think that is very unfair on some parents. Clearly they judge the positives would outweigh the negatives. And in truth probably the little bit of respite they get helps them to be better parents. It's impossible to be on duty 24-7. Also they may have other children to consider . There was a doctor on some news programme yesterday saying her child with special needs physically hurts her other child. I wouldn't like to make a judgement call for a parent in that situation. Tough as tough can be to be in that situation.

Stateofyou

jrosen wrote: »

Cant speak for secondary but primary the kids are not allowed go to the teachers desk. I know he enforces it but he does go desk to desk when needed to help and then mask and visor is used. Some classroom rules are obviously needed.

Yes, that's all in an ideal world here. We are talking about young children. They're not perfectly behaved robots who never forget new rules.

paddyirish23

History Queen wrote: »

But lots of teachers across Europe are not working in classes. I think teachers working in higher risk settings such as SNAs and staff of special schools and those with underlying conditions should be prioritised. I can wait, but I work in mainstream and have no underlying conditions or people living with me who are vulnerable.

And if they have underlying conditions then they will still be priority so I'm not sure where you going with that?