Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

wirelessdude01

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

Yeah during a once in a lifetime pandemic with 4 months to the exams is definitely the time to do that.

Well if it results in a better option being considered then it was the correct call. We are all aware that Norma and The DES can be quite entrenched in their views.

Ashbourne hoop

amacca wrote: »

I don't know I'm not so sure they wouldn't go for that over predicted grades alone.

They say govt side wasn't seriously engaging with any other options except PG and just stringing people along

PGs ate not the panacea a surprising number of people think they are

If it was me though and I didn't have to award them If give the baying mob what they wanted knowing full well that wouldn't satisfy them either

Tbh I think govt just want to string this along for long enough that there is no other option and the choice is easy for them and it will be the one requires the least planning and organisation ....I wouldn't be surprised if they think the Dept simply wouldn't be up to it

I agree, particularly as I said, for this year's group there's so little to even begin to accurately assess them. Walking away does nothing but delay things even further.

History Queen

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

Yeah during a once in a lifetime pandemic with 4 months to the exams is definitely the time to do that.

You do realise that the Department created this mess by having no contingency measures of any description prepared? Zero. I don't personally think ASTI should have walked away, however, the Department are beyond incompetent, there should be no talks taking place because there should have been contingency measures drawn up last summer.

wirelessdude01

amacca wrote: »

I don't know I'm not so sure they wouldn't go for that over predicted grades alone.

They say govt side wasn't seriously engaging with any other options except PG and just stringing people along

PGs ate not the panacea a surprising number of people think they are

If it was me though and I didn't have to award them If give the baying mob what they wanted knowing full well that wouldn't satisfy them either

Tbh I think govt just want to string this along for long enough that there is no other option and the choice is easy for them and it will be the one requires the least planning and organisation ....I wouldn't be surprised if they think the Dept simply wouldn't be up to it

As pointed out yesterday, no recruitment has occurred yet so it would indicate that perhaps those elements aren't going to be a factor in whatever is decided upon.

Ashbourne hoop

History Queen wrote: »

You do realise that the Department created this mess by having no contingency measures of any description prepared? Zero. I don't personally think ASTI should have walked away, however, the Department are beyond incompetent, there should be no talks taking place because there should have been contingency measures drawn up last summer.

Couldn't agree more, I think the Minister is completely out of her depth, but walking away is not the answer.

wirelessdude01

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

I agree, particularly as I said, for this year's group there's so little to even begin to accurately assess them. Walking away does nothing but delay things even further.

All reports are that the talks were just going around in circles anyway and always arriving back at what The DES are trying to dictate, calculated grades. No indication how they were to be arrived at or what data was to be used.

amacca

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

I agree, particularly as I said, for this year's group there's so little to even begin to accurately assess them. Walking away does nothing but delay things even further.

Walking away might achieve a number things

1) union can point clearly to where they objected to this if it goes PG alone and no doubt a whole host of people blame them for this down the line (no doubt they will still be blamed no matter what they do but it's worth something to have it on the record)

Selfish reason yes but they are paid by members and have to try look out for their interests like any organisation

2) it demonstrates they aren't there to roll over and have their bellies tickled by the other side which have proven themselves to be untrustworthy disingenuous liars with no word for as long as I can remember and whose recent form is very poor .......this might have the effect of opening up a serious dialogue about the alternative options rather than just let the clock wind down and end up with PG

To me when the other side claims to have consulted you but hasn't leaks stories in advance of agreements and flat out goes back on agreements (and that's just the recent past) what choice do they have if they want to have a negotiation rather than simply show up as window dressing and let whatever sleveens and apparatchiks are thet ride roughshod over them

If Govt side had negotiated in good faith at some stage over the last decade we probably wouldn't be witnessing this tbh

Ashbourne hoop

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well if it results in a better option being considered then it was the correct call. We are all aware that Norma and The DES can be quite entrenched in their views.

And ASTI can't be ? A text message from my daughter's school states "our main union TUI are generally speaking positively (sic) about re-opening schools." Speaks volumes. I can't see how walking from talks achieves anything at this stage other than delaying things and stressing students more. And I'd say the same if the department walked away.

Rosalita

Mrsmum wrote: »

Rosalieta, as a parent I very much value your post and would like to see more of these kind of posts.
I asked the question earlier about teachers returning corrected work so not sure if you are referring to that in your post. I do see that teachers are likely swamped with work but I hope teachers see it from the students' pov also.

Thanks Mrsmum. I absolutely do see it from a student's point of view and I cannot begin to think about the stress and anxiety they must be experiencing. It just hit a nerve earlier when a "vocal minority" seem to purposely log on to diminish the efforts of teachers as a group. Your son will do great because he's got a mum who will support him. Just tell him to put the head down and perhaps turn off social media for a while to get a break from everything!:pac:

wirelessdude01

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

And ASTI can't be ? A text message from my daughter's school states "our main union TUI are generally speaking positively (sic) about re-opening schools." Speaks volumes. I can't see how walking from talks achieves anything at this stage other than delaying things are stressing students morer. And I'd say the same if the department walked away.

They can be as positive as they want. Still no word on when any of us are back. TUI have form for rolling over and getting their belly tickled, same as my union generally does as well.

Just to be clear, I don't think walking out was the correct course of action. Question really has to be asked what were the circumstances that lead to them thinking that they was the only course of action open to them.
Maybe an ASTI member can answer this for me, do the ASTI have a mandate with regards to calculated/predicted grades? I know that the TUI do from their last congress.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

All reports are that the talks were just going around in circles anyway and always arriving back at what The DES are trying to dictate, calculated grades. No indication how they were to be arrived at or what data was to be used.

Calculated grades is not a fair approach as last year showed


1) If somone moves up to a higher level of a subject in the last year they are at a disadvantage


2) Changing school during the leaving cert 2 years


3) Grades given by teachers, got down graded for no reason or feedback given, especially in the private schools. Its like there was an agenda against private schools


Maybe give the choice to the people that matters, ie the kids. Let them decide if they want to sit or not.
The ones that want to sit in June should be allowed

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

Calculated grades is not a fair approach as last year showed


1) If somone moves up to a higher level of a subject in the last year they are at a disadvantage


2) Changing school during the leaving cert 2 years


3) Grades given by teachers, got down graded for no reason or feedback given, especially in the private schools. Its like there was an agenda against private schools

We all know this yet a substantial number of parents and kids are roaring for them.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

We all know this yet a substantial number of parents and kids are roaring for them.

So let the ones roaring for it, have it that way and the others sit the exams.


Not sure why its so hard

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

Maybe give the choice to the people that matters, ie the kids. Let them decide if they want to sit or not.
The ones that want to sit in June should be allowed

Norma doesn't want her beloved "traditional" exam now though.

Seems to hell bent on CG/PG.

Random sample

They walked out of talks that were going nowhere on Thursday evening.

They were back in talks to try to resolve the issues on Friday morning.

I don’t see how it would be better to have them back in the same circular talks on Friday morning instead.

I suppose it’s the difference between thrashing out an argument until you are done and taking a break and coming at it again with fresh eyes. There will be people who take both approaches.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Norma doesn't want her beloved "traditional" exam now though.

Seems to hell bent on CG/PG.

My reply for Norma would be very nice to post here

average_runner

Random sample wrote: »

They walked out of talks that were going nowhere on Thursday evening.

They were back in talks to try to resolve the issues on Friday morning.

I don’t see how it would be better to have them back in the same circular talks on Friday morning instead.

I suppose it’s the difference between thrashing out an argument until you are done and taking a break and coming at it again with fresh eyes. There will be people who take both approaches.

You do wonder why these discussions didn't take place last summer in case something like this would happen.

Forward thinking not the really a quality of the Government

jimmytwotimes 2013

Laptop closed til next Wednesday.

To the teachers here, enjoy break away from screen and I hope the break from school work is a help to the parents and students who post here too.

Deeec

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Laptop closed til next Wednesday.

To the teachers here, enjoy break away from screen and I hope the break from school work is a help to the parents and students who post here too.

Enjoy the midterm Jimmy.:)

History Queen

average_runner wrote: »

So let the ones roaring for it, have it that way and the others sit the exams.


Not sure why its so hard

I think I read somewhere that the issue of giving students a choice is to make sure that one cohort isn't favoured over the other. For example grade inflation in calculated grades vs strict adherence to the bell curve for the ones who sit the exams. Maybe I misunderstood but that was the impression I got.

Warbeastrior

Are people expecting Leaving Certs back in on Monday 22/02?

Millem

Warbeastrior wrote: »

Are people expecting Leaving Certs back in on Monday 22/02?

No

Icyseanfitz

what we have been told is maybe march 1st but who the hell knows

jimmytwotimes 2013

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

what we have been told is maybe march 1st but who the hell knows

Whoever gave that date is pretending they know more than they actually do

History Queen

Friday statement from Dept. Talks to continue over the weekend.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/2912a-statement-from-the-department-of-education/

jimmytwotimes 2013

History Queen wrote: »

Friday statement from Dept. Talks to continue over the weekend.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/2912a-statement-from-the-department-of-education/

Union being ignored. Looks like PGs with option to sit LC if not happy. Decision already made imo

wirelessdude01

Warbeastrior wrote: »

Are people expecting Leaving Certs back in on Monday 22/02?

If it hasn't been announced by now, I highly doubt it. Didn't MM say recently that schools need to get as close to 2 weeks notice as possible or did I just imagine that?

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

Friday statement from Dept. Talks to continue over the weekend.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/2912a-statement-from-the-department-of-education/

Bulldozer all powered up and ready to force through her current opinion. Liable to change though in the coming weeks.

Random sample

Were all stakeholders ever in the same room or is Norma talking to them all separately?

hesaidshesaid

From the mouths of babes...

https://twitter.com/Eintrachtrob/status/1360248313468121091?s=20