Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Stateofyou

jrosen wrote: »

I don’t know if I believe peoples mental health is the reason school work is not being done. I think there is more to it. I think for many parents they see it as the schools job.

I see from friends some kids simply won’t do as they need too at home. There are a lot of kids ruling the roost right now.

I'm sure you're right in many cases. I said I was firm with my kids from the start the reality of it. The day my kids rule the roost is the day they've grown up and moved out.

Crazy though, that they won't get their kids to engage so that their teacher can actually do the job for them that they're there to do...

Lillyfae

jrosen wrote: »

I don’t know if I believe peoples mental health is the reason school work is not being done. I think there is more to it. I think for many parents they see it as the schools job.

I see from friends some kids simply won’t do as they need too at home. There are a lot of kids ruling the roost right now.

Maybe parents see it as the schools job, maybe there are mental health issues, maybe their are differing abilities in parents as well as children, maybe parents don't give a sh*t, maybe they are frontline workers, maybe there are drug and/or alcohol issues, maybe there is domestic violence. Maybe some parents are brilliant and can work full time while their amazing children do everything, maybe there is a stay at home parent who can help them with everything.

Teachers are above reproach across the board yet it's open season on parents and even children now. In the last couple of days here I've seen comments along the lines of "Leaving Cert students will try to capitalize unfairly on whatever grading system eventually ends up being set". What do you expect them to do? They are still children and their lives have been turned upside-down this year.

mloc123

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

The amount of grand parents/extended family dying at the moment in my school is absolutely heartbreaking

Hope all those "meaningful Christmas" dinners were worth it.

CapriciousOne

BTownB wrote: »

Now it's wait till vaccinations increase... Goalposts shifting.

Children falling behind will fall further.

People were very concerned about mink in Denmark, nothing came of it. Scientists are very confident vaccines will work on this variant.

Children won't be vaccinated for months, yet due to the UK variant, there were more cases recorded among them in January in Israel than any other month of the pandemic.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n383?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage

mloc123

CapriciousOne wrote: »

Children won't be vaccinated for months, yet due to the UK variant, there were more cases recorded among them in January in Israel than any other month of the pandemic.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n383?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage

Hanukkah had nothing to do with this right?

Icyseanfitz

mloc123 wrote: »

Hope all those "meaningful Christmas" dinners were worth it.

I don't know any of the circumstances around these poor people passing, all I know is their grandchildren are left "meaningfully" heartbroken after.

Stateofyou

Lillyfae wrote: »

Maybe parents see it as the schools job, maybe there are mental health issues, maybe their are differing abilities in parents as well as children, maybe parents don't give a sh*t, maybe they are frontline workers, maybe there are drug and/or alcohol issues, maybe there is domestic violence. Maybe some parents are brilliant and can work full time while their amazing children do everything, maybe there is a stay at home parent who can help them with everything.

Teachers are above reproach across the board yet it's open season on parents and even children now. In the last couple of days here I've seen comments along the lines of "Leaving Cert students will try to capitalize unfairly on whatever grading system eventually ends up being set". What do you expect them to do? They are still children and their lives have been turned upside-down this year.

I'm sure there's literally everything going on across the board. Yes, obviously everyone's lives have been turned upside down.
You seem a little snarky there about the 'amazing children doing everything' comment, not sure if you're trying to get a dig in at me?

It's not "open season" to discuss the issues going on with homeschooling. Your comment in bold did seem to fall in the "open season" on parents and children category though.

Lillyfae

Stateofyou wrote: »

I'm sure there's literally everything going on across the board. Yes, obviously everyone's lives have been turned upside down.
You seem a little snarky there about the 'amazing children doing everything' comment, not sure if you're trying to get a dig in at me?

It's not "open season" to discuss the issues going on with homeschooling. Your comment in bold did seem to fall in the "open season" on parents and children category though.

Sorry if it seems that way. I'm really very happy for people who are able to get on with everything- I mean this sincerely. I'm just sure they're very much in the minority.

jrosen

You sound the opposite of happy.

But teachers can’t be in school and for now parents have to do more. It’s really that simple and in cases where teachers are not doing what they should be then that’s even more reason as a parent to step up your game. At the end of the day the real losers are the kids.

Of course there will be leaving cert kids who are trying to wriggle out do exams. Probably would have been one of them myself and my own JC kid is hanging onto the hope his exams will be cancelled.

Give people an easier way and often they will take it

The Wordress

insullation wrote: »

I'm involved in social services in a fairly deprived area and this lockdown is ruining what little chance so many of these great young children had of getting a decent chance of making it out of their unpleasant environment. Their home environment can be so toxic and school is their only escape. We will all pay a big price for this in years to come.

I am so glad that the children have you to look out for their needs.

From my varied experience of SS, on many occasions they were not there for our children when they needed it most.

We had to make a serious report of alleged abuse among pupils in a school a few years ago. Tusla never looked at the report and because the report was never investigated, it caused a serious feud in the local area which is still simmering to this day.

Yes, school is an absolute sanctuary for our pupils but only because many staff go above and beyond their duties when other services have failed our most vulnerable.

rob316

jrosen wrote: »

You sound the opposite of happy.

But teachers can’t be in school and for now parents have to do more. It’s really that simple and in cases where teachers are not doing what they should be then that’s even more reason as a parent to step up your game. At the end of the day the real losers are the kids.

Of course there will be leaving cert kids who are trying to wriggle out do exams. Probably would have been one of them myself and my own JC kid is hanging onto the hope his exams will be cancelled.

Give people an easier way and often they will take it

I should apply that logic to my job, my customers should step up if I'm not doing my job sure.

Lillyfae

jrosen wrote: »

You sound the opposite of happy.

But teachers can’t be in school and for now parents have to do more. It’s really that simple and in cases where teachers are not doing what they should be then that’s even more reason as a parent to step up your game. At the end of the day the real losers are the kids.

Of course there will be leaving cert kids who are trying to wriggle out do exams. Probably would have been one of them myself and my own JC kid is hanging onto the hope his exams will be cancelled.

Give people an easier way and often they will take it

I'm happy because where I am the engagement from schools has been fantastic and luckily my two are back as normal this week. The unions are of course not happy but public health advice trumps union advice at all times. My family and friends at home in Ireland have not been so lucky.

The two parts in bold- tell me how you think this years 6th year cohort are supposed to sit an exam?? What is easy about what they face over the coming months and years, or what they have had to deal with for the last year???

Edit: I really hope you're not suggesting that parents should just keep shtum if teachers aren't engaging, by the way.

lawred2

jrosen wrote: »

You sound the opposite of happy.

But teachers can’t be in school and for now parents have to do more. It’s really that simple and in cases where teachers are not doing what they should be then that’s even more reason as a parent to step up your game. At the end of the day the real losers are the kids.

Of course there will be leaving cert kids who are trying to wriggle out do exams. Probably would have been one of them myself and my own JC kid is hanging onto the hope his exams will be cancelled.

Give people an easier way and often they will take it

there'll always be foolish enablers

rob316

I cant begin to describe my anger with this whole mess, they thought it was fine for my special needs son to go back to school for one day this friday and then take a week off. I explained this to the teacher on the phone yesterday, when they asked is he coming back. Does anyone not realize what the disruption of routine is doing to him as is and then to tell him your going back but after 1 day your off for another 10 days?:mad:

wirelessdude01

rob316 wrote: »

I cant begin to describe my anger with this whole mess, they thought it was fine for my special needs son to go back to school for one day this friday and then take a week off. I explained this to the teacher on the phone yesterday, when they asked is he coming back. Does anyone not realize what the disruption of routine is doing to him as is and then to tell him your going back but after 1 day your off for another 10 days?:mad:

Not the teachers fault. This is the DES trying to look like they are doing something.

Mrsmum

rob316 wrote: »

I cant begin to describe my anger with this whole mess, they thought it was fine for my special needs son to go back to school for one day this friday and then take a week off. I explained this to the teacher on the phone yesterday, when they asked is he coming back. Does anyone not realize what the disruption of routine is doing to him as is and then to tell him your going back but after 1 day your off for another 10 days?:mad:

That really was a daft policy and a hurtful, fury inducing policy for families directly affected. Done only so the dates look better. Whatever genius came up with that must have no clue.

Stateofyou

rob316 wrote: »

I should apply that logic to my job, my customers should step up if I'm not doing my job sure.

At my work we have been told to do and think for ourselves before going to IT to sort out every last issue for us. They released a funny statistic showing just how many issues resolved once a computer was restarted. My work also expects me to bring my skills and support to the table. And if there's something that threw a wrench in our plans I'm expected to rise to the challenge not throw in the towel. In fact those are the moments in my career that taught me the most when I was challenged the most.

The teachers cannot physically be in the home to enforce the kids are doing the work. They're going to have to be met halfway. Same as with homework in normal times..

lawred2

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Not the teachers fault. This is the DES trying to look like they are doing something.

Mrsmum wrote: »

That really was a daft policy and a hurtful, fury inducing policy for families directly affected. Done only so the dates look better. Whatever genius came up with that must have no clue.

the government have been woeful

honestly; the country gets what it deserves going back to vote FF in such numbers again... landing us with indecisive spoofers like MM, SD and NF in such important briefs in the middle of a national emergency

Stateofyou

Lillyfae wrote: »

I'm happy because where I am the engagement from schools has been fantastic and luckily my two are back as normal this week. The unions are of course not happy but public health advice trumps union advice at all times. My family and friends at home in Ireland have not been so lucky.

The two parts in bold- tell me how you think this years 6th year cohort are supposed to sit an exam?? What is easy about what they face over the coming months and years, or what they have had to deal with for the last year???

Edit: I really hope you're not suggesting that parents should just keep shtum if teachers aren't engaging, by the way.

Exactly, we haven't been as lucky. Public health advice was not sought and NF's one woman show trumped everything. Luckily, the unions stepped in, because they were forced to then made scapegoats.

wirelessdude01

Stateofyou wrote: »

At my work we have been told to do and think for ourselves before going to IT to sort out every last issue for us. They released a funny statistic showing just how many issues resolved once a computer was restarted. My work also expects me to bring my skills and support to the table. And if there's something that threw a wrench in our plans I'm expected to rise to the challenge not throw in the towel. In fact those are the moments in my career that taught me the most when I was challenged the most.

The teachers cannot physically be in the home to enforce the kids are doing the work. They're going to have to be met halfway. Same as with homework in normal times..

I know of teachers who have been contacted by parents asking them to ring their kids as they are being unruly at home. Nothing to do with schools at all. Just do your job and be the parent.

Too many parents also trying to be their kids best friend.

jrosen

I never implied parents should keep quiet if a teacher wasn’t doing their job. My main point was parents that I know seem to have kids at home who won’t do their work, who won’t engage, who will do anything other than school work. Parents who are doing 30 mins a day and claiming that’s enough.
What goes on in the home is a parent’s responsibility. Teachers are not there so in the situation we are all in it takes more commitment from parents. That’s the bottom line for now.

Mrsmum

lawred2 wrote: »

the government have been woeful

honestly; the country gets what it deserves going back to vote FF in such numbers again... landing us with indecisive spoofers like MM, SD and NF in such important briefs in the middle of a national emergency

I guess on that one, we all bear some responsibility. How many of us bring up special needs necessities at the doorstep with politicians. If you're not directly involved, probably very few do. And yet who wouldn't like major improvements in this area so note to self I think for the next time they come to the door seeking votes.

Redser87

rob316 wrote: »

I cant begin to describe my anger with this whole mess, they thought it was fine for my special needs son to go back to school for one day this friday and then take a week off. I explained this to the teacher on the phone yesterday, when they asked is he coming back. Does anyone not realize what the disruption of routine is doing to him as is and then to tell him your going back but after 1 day your off for another 10 days?:mad:

I'd be amazed if there is even half attendance over the next couple of days. Take a class of 6 coming back at 50% - given the disruption caused to parents and the unnecessary confusion and upset to children with SEN who will only get one day back before midterm, no way all 3 children will attend. It's all optics for Norma and Josepha, causing far too much unnecessary heartache. I'm sorry to hear that this has been your experience.

jusvi2001

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/please-help-us-parents-write-to-minister-on-special-needs-school-closures-1.4480568


Parents are blaming not only NF but unions too for this mess

jrosen

Mrsmum wrote: »

I guess on that one, we all bear some responsibility. How many of us bring up special needs necessities at the doorstep with politicians. If you're not directly involved, probably very few do. And yet who wouldn't like major improvements in this area so note to self I think for the next time they come to the door seeking votes.

I would agree. I think when something doesn’t knock on your door it’s easy to not consider it.

penny piper

insullation wrote: »

I'm involved in social services in a fairly deprived area and this lockdown is ruining what little chance so many of these great young children had of getting a decent chance of making it out of their unpleasant environment. Their home environment can be so toxic and school is their only escape. We will all pay a big price for this in years to come.

Surely, if you feel a child is in such a toxic environment...you should be doing your best as a social worker to have these children removed from it......

You can't use schools as an "escape" ...these children have to go home at some point.....social services are at fault here...

Mrsmum

penny piper wrote: »

Surely, if you feel a child is in such a toxic environment...you should be doing your best as a social worker to have these children removed from it......

You can't use schools as an "escape" ...these children have to go home at some point.....social services are at fault here...

And where would you put all these children ? You are relying on care homes and foster homes of which there is a shortage and must be kept for the most extreme cases. Outside of the extreme there are thousands of children in damaged and damaging families. Unfortunately to take them out of these families can be equally damaging. School is part of the care product for these children. That doesn't mean schools should be open if it isn't safe but it is just an acknowledgement of the importance of school is these children's lives.

Treppen

Lillyfae wrote: »

Teachers are above reproach across the board yet it's open season on parents and even children now. In the last couple of days here I've seen comments along the lines of "Leaving Cert students will try to capitalize unfairly on whatever grading system eventually ends up being set". What do you expect them to do? They are still children and their lives have been turned upside-down this year.

Well here's the truth of it. If there's a gap in the fence, it will be exploited.
Furthermore some students have being exploiting this since September, no 'will try' about it.

Some students don't want to sit exams but want predicted grades only, quite often they say its because they've missed 6 months of school, that's all well and good but how are teachers expected to award a predicted leaving cert grade on a few minor class tests done last year!
So it'll come down to teachers being overgenerous because of the downgrading the almighty algorithm for last year.
Also they'll have to take into account all the tests particular students sat at home (absent from school that day) and mysteriously go 100% .
Then there's the disparity between the tough grading teacher for the really high achieving class and the easy marker who wants to give students some confidence or keep the parents off their back.

... And don't even talk to me about schools allowing online mocks to go ahead, that's an absolute joke of a decision, and I think the school management are complicit in trying to get an edge on the high grades.

I'm not promoting it but I'm saying that some students... And yes, some teachers... Have been playing the system since September in preparation for predicted grades.

And that isn't fair for the honest groups, who've also had their lives turned upside down!

So how do u mitigate against that?

wirelessdude01

Treppen wrote: »

And that isn't fair for the honest groups, who've also had their lives turned upside down!

So how do u mitigate against that?

I've heard people arguing that university course access should be totally wide open. They get the choice of whatever course they want!!!!!!

Lillyfae

Treppen wrote: »

I'm not promoting it but I'm saying that some students... And yes, some teachers... Have been playing the system since September in preparation for predicted grades.

The teachers are adults, and adults who's futures and careers are safe. The students are children, who have had nothing but uncertainty for the last year, and they're getting no certainty for the foreseeable future. Whatever they need to do to get by, or get ahead, I'm happy for them to do- do you think a C3 Biology student is going to be gaming the system to get in to Medicine in Trinity or something?? It doesn't come down to honest or dishonest on the part of the students, they are under pressures we can't even imagine, whether they were a straight A student or scraping by before all this.