Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

History Queen

Lillyfae wrote: »

The teachers are adults, and adults who's futures and careers are safe. The students are children, who have had nothing but uncertainty for the last year, and they're getting no certainty for the foreseeable future. Whatever they need to do to get by, or get ahead, I'm happy for them to do- do you think a C3 Biology student is going to be gaming the system to get in to Medicine in Trinity or something?? It doesn't come down to honest or dishonest on the part of the students, they are under pressures we can't even imagine, whether they were a straight A student or scraping by before all this.

With respect, teachers will understand the gaming of the system that goes on better than someone outside the system. It as a separate issue to students being stressed. Many of the students in LC are adults and I don't think that they should have a free pass on doing whatever they like which is what I interpreted your meaning in "whatever they need to do to get ahead".

Lillyfae

History Queen wrote: »

With respect, teachers will understand the gaming of the system that goes on better than someone outside the system. It as a separate issue to students being stressed.

But what system is there? There's no system! They're not in school, they don't know if they're doing exams this year, don't know if they can go on to further education or what it even looks like.

penny piper

Mrsmum wrote: »

And where would you put all these children ? You are relying on care homes and foster homes of which there is a shortage and must be kept for the most extreme cases. Outside of the extreme there are thousands of children in damaged and damaging families. Unfortunately to take them out of these families can be equally damaging. School is part of the care product for these children. That doesn't mean schools should be open if it isn't safe but it is just an acknowledgement of the importance of school is these children's lives.

If the situation is as bad as you suggest we should have more social workers
more care homes/government do it's upmost to supply these..

Teachers aren't social workers nor should they be used as childminders...
School should not be used as as "care product"....
I actually know of when teachers have referred children to TUSLA in the past nothing has happened at all....

What do you think should happen you continue to send abused children to school 9-5 and forget about them the rest of the time...

Social services is lacking in this country.
It has nothing to do with whether schools are opened or closed.

jrosen

What’s the situation with teachers/sna’s going to homes?
I just heard from a friend that on Saturdays a staff member from her daughters school is going to come to their home to do work with their daughter. She is support only in school not support plus.

surely this is not allowed

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

What’s the situation with teachers/sna’s going to homes?
I just heard from a friend that on Saturdays a staff member from her daughters school is going to come to their home to do work with their daughter. She is support only in school not support plus.

surely this is not allowed

This sounds like something our principal would pull. When the initial reopening was meant to be happening and none of the parents were letting their children go back, they essentially were trying to coerce other parents to send their children in.

byhookorbycrook

jrosen wrote: »

What’s the situation with teachers/sna’s going to homes?
I just heard from a friend that on Saturdays a staff member from her daughters school is going to come to their home to do work with their daughter. She is support only in school not support plus.

surely this is not allowed

If a child doesn’t have “ complex needs ,” ie those who would once have “ resource hours “ they don’t qualify . Most school staff aren’t taking these hours up as they are following public health guidance not to mix households / go into another house hold.

Piehead

Cases back over 1,000 today. Mainstream schools will probably stay closed til after the Easter hols

swim2

Not sure uploading this screenshot will work...From department of education website. In house support, not in the school setting. I would have thought it safer to have children attend 5 hours a week in school rather than teacher going to multiple houses.

wirelessdude01

swim2 wrote: »

Not sure uploading this screenshot will work...From department of education website. In house support, not in the school setting. I would have thought it safer to have children attend 5 hours a week in school rather than teacher going to multiple houses.

Makes an absolute mockery of the public health guidance.

You really would have to question how this was given the okay given the prevailing circumstances.

C__MC

Piehead wrote: »

Cases back over 1,000 today. Mainstream schools will probably stay closed til after the Easter hols

Absolutely no doubt about
Government have not a notion of opening up

CruelSummer

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

If a child doesn’t have “ complex needs ,” ie those who would once have “ resource hours “ they don’t qualify . Most school staff aren’t taking these hours up as they are following public health guidance not to mix households / go into another house hold.

There are plenty of educational staff taking up these hours too, it’s an essential service and not social visits. It covers Children in mainstream on school support plus who will not be back at school when special schools and classes reopen.

It seems there’s a cohort of teachers out there who want to hide behind nphet and not engage in any face to face teaching until the cows come home. It’s ridiculous and once cases are down all should be back, the damage will be irreparable to many otherwise.

jrosen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Makes an absolute mockery of the public health guidance.

You really would have to question how this was given the okay given the prevailing circumstances.

It’s absolutely insane. I can’t wrap my head around it tbh. The child I know doesn’t have an sna allocated to her in normal times. Are staff being pressured into to?

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

It’s absolutely insane. I can’t wrap my head around it tbh. The child I know doesn’t have an sna allocated to her in normal times. Are staff being pressured into to?

Huge pressure exerted in our school to take it on but no one was willing to be silly and take it on. There is a reason why 1. we aren't in school and 2. we aren't supposed to be visiting other houses.

wirelessdude01

CruelSummer wrote: »

There are plenty of educational staff taking up these hours too, it’s an essential service and not social visits. It covers Children in mainstream on school support plus who will not be back at school when special schools and classes reopen.

It seems there’s a cohort of teachers out there who want to hide behind nphet and not engage in any face to face teaching until the cows come home. It’s ridiculous and once cases are down all should be back, the damage will be irreparable to many otherwise.

Think you might find there is a cohort of teachers who cannot understand how and why something as hairbrained as visiting other peoples homes was actually thought to be a good idea seeing as it goes against public health restrictions that are currently in place.

downthemiddle

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Think you might find there is a cohort of teachers who cannot understand how and why something as hairbrained as visiting other peoples homes was actually thought to be a good idea seeing as it goes against public health restrictions that are currently in place.

Cases back over 1,000 again today.

CruelSummer

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Think you might find there is a cohort of teachers who cannot understand how and why something as hairbrained as visiting other peoples homes was actually thought to be a good idea seeing as it goes against public health restrictions that are currently in place.

Essential services should be maintained, especially as cases stabilise and families have been isolated for weeks. The Department would look for public health advice before announcing the scheme, this was agreed with the unions. It seems certain people just want to say no to everything - thankfully there are many that have come forward to do it for those that need it.

CruelSummer

downthemiddle wrote: »

Cases back over 1,000 again today.

7 day averages in cases the last 5 Wednesdays

Today - 944
3/2 - 1191
27/1 - 1700
20/1 - 2891
13/1 - 5440

wirelessdude01

CruelSummer wrote: »

Essential services should be maintained, especially as cases stabilise and families have been isolated for weeks. The Department would look for public health advice before announcing the scheme, this was agreed with the unions. It seems certain people just want to say no to everything - thankfully there are many that have come forward to do it for those that need it.

Well Norma has been known in the recent current to not think it worthy of her status to have to bow to looking for same.

History Queen

Lillyfae wrote: »

But what system is there? There's no system! They're not in school, they don't know if they're doing exams this year, don't know if they can go on to further education or what it even looks like.

They're anticipating predicted grades of some sort and acting accordingly. They have been told there will be exams and a choice of sonething else.

rob316

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Not the teachers fault. This is the DES trying to look like they are doing something.

Or maybe it's the unions? Government have been trying to open the schools for weeks. Why couldnt the schools have went back Monday gone?

Both sides utterly useless and zero consideration for the children

Locotastic

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Think you might find there is a cohort of teachers who cannot understand how and why something as hairbrained as visiting other peoples homes was actually thought to be a good idea seeing as it goes against public health restrictions that are currently in place.

Because when the government are being sued by 200+ special needs children they have to be seen to be doing something. Which is why we now have a half ar**d offering to those children.

Worked for the government though and the cases seem to be postponed for now.

wirelessdude01

rob316 wrote: »

Or maybe it's the unions? Government have been trying to open the schools for weeks. Why couldnt the schools have went back Monday gone?

Both sides utterly useless and zero consideration for the children

As I keep pointing out, there was absolutely nothing stopping the DES from opening primary and the vast majority of special schools at any time since we were meant to be back after Christmas. Neither Forsa or The INTO can currently tell their members not to comply with a school reopening.

Stateofyou

CruelSummer wrote: »

Essential services should be maintained, especially as cases stabilise and families have been isolated for weeks. The Department would look for public health advice before announcing the scheme, this was agreed with the unions. It seems certain people just want to say no to everything - thankfully there are many that have come forward to do it for those that need it.

Pretty sad that Unions have to get DES/NF to agree to look for public health advice before announcing anything with a million people in the sector.

jrosen

It’s actually mind boggling stupid to ask teachers to go into homes. I can see an argument for the opening of Special schools in a limited capacity because it’s a controlled environment.

But the case I know the student is not support plus and her family have obeyed not a rule. It’s not a home I’d be walking into.

Wombatman

Treppen wrote: »

I'm not promoting it but I'm saying that some students... And yes, some teachers... Have been playing the system since September in preparation for predicted grades.

And that isn't fair for the honest groups, who've also had their lives turned upside down!

So how do u mitigate against that?

Identifying the exploits and executing require effort, foresight and creative thought. Maybe any benefit they accrue is warranted?

khalessi

CruelSummer wrote: »

There are plenty of educational staff taking up these hours too, it’s an essential service and not social visits. It covers Children in mainstream on school support plus who will not be back at school when special schools and classes reopen.

It seems there’s a cohort of teachers out there who want to hide behind nphet and not engage in any face to face teaching until the cows come home. It’s ridiculous and once cases are down all should be back, the damage will be irreparable to many otherwise.

Not hiding just listening to the health advice other occupations who are wfh are listening to.

Hyperbole much

History Queen

Looks like there is movement on getting LC and post-primary special classes back.

https://www.tui.ie/news/tui-members-to-facilitate-re-opening-of-special-classes-in-post-primary-schools-%e2%80%93-union-also-indicates-willingness-to-facilitate-return-of-leaving-cert-students.14037.html

frank8211

rob316 wrote: »

Or maybe it's the unions? Government have been trying to open the schools for weeks. Why couldnt the schools have went back Monday gone?

Both sides utterly useless and zero consideration for the children

They are dangerous activiities to be opening so fast... we have thousands of pepple with the vrus since ;last september

little bit of help

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Hi there

As far as schools know, these support hours will be in place even if schools reopen. It's not a grant, the SNA or support teacher involved will be paid per hour. (Teacher is paid approx €39 per hour before tax and SNA is paid approx €18) You don't have to organise payment, you just need to fill out a form saying when the hours were worked. All registered teachers and SNAs are already vetted. If you have any questions, just get on to your school, they should be able to help you.

As these hours are supposed to happen in the child's home, not all teachers/SNAs will be willing to do this. It's very different to teaching in the neutral ground of the school for both parties.

ETA: Yes you are 100% right about the Department.

Thanks that's a much better explanation than the one in the letter the dept sent, it was quite unhelpful. It made the whole process daunting! I wonder did they do that on purpose so they can say they are offering solutions and parents and teachers/sna are blocking it. I don't trust the dept anymore.

penny piper

History Queen wrote: »

Looks like there is movement on getting LC and post-primary special classes back.

https://www.tui.ie/news/tui-members-to-facilitate-re-opening-of-special-classes-in-post-primary-schools-%e2%80%93-union-also-indicates-willingness-to-facilitate-return-of-leaving-cert-students.14037.html

Apparently according to the TUI phased re-opening of post primary schools guidance doc pdf...states that schools have now reached the level of of case numbers that were the same level as prior to schools closing before the Christmas break....*9th of February cases of 556*

Today the case numbers are 54 deaths and 1006 new cases....still risky..