Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Mrsmum

Locotastic wrote: »

Vaccinating all teachers does not equal schools all reopening.

You are of course absolutely correct. I was looking at it way too narrowly. Thank you for the calm, cool and collected overview.

PoolDude

km79 wrote: »

No leaks in sunday papers so I assume nothing happening this side of the mid term

Regarding the ISSU........I watched most of the link posted earlier (skipped ahead the intro and a few other bits) . I did not hear one mention of special needs students ? Do they only represent mainstream students ..........
I still maintain as I did last year that they only represent a very vocal minority who have a desired outcome that suits them only. Maybe things have changed but last year they were roaring to cancel the LC and use predicted grades as that’s what all students wanted. When predicted grades were announced it became apparent that this was not the case. Student voice needs to be heard in these talks but one that represents all students . I’m not sure they do . That video has circa 7k views . The survey has approx 20k responses .There are approx 370k secondary school students . 60k in leaving cert.

In terms of case numbers the real picture will become clearer over the next week and I now think no students will return before mid term. They are probably taking the correct cautious approach before commuting to a timescale but need to communicate this if this is the case

http://twitter.com/Stephen_Murphy5/status/1355835892645175298

Agree on the numbers.

On your ISSU comments - the survey was targeted at LC students primarily. Statistically it is an above average response to a survey based on the data set so it’s reasonable to say the results are highly representative of the views of that population. No doubt to your point there is a minority who are very vocal but they do seem to be representing the majority, albeit the mainstream students

km79

PoolDude wrote: »

Agree on the numbers.

On your ISSU comments - the survey was targeted at LC students primarily. Statistically it is an above average response to a survey based on the data set so it’s reasonable to say the results are highly representative of the views of that population. No doubt to your point there is a minority who are very vocal but they do seem to be representing the majority, albeit the mainstream students

My main problem is how are the officers etc elected ?
I’ve never seen or heard of anything in this regard in the schools I’ve worked in . They are purporting to speak for all students across the country so this is an issue for me .

I think a far better way of garnering student voice would be the DES to survey students in all schools by means of student councils for example . But that would require the DES to actually be forward thinking .

TTLF

These 2 tweets are very interesting from Sandra Hurley.

https://twitter.com/sandra_hurley/status/1355869325383643136

https://twitter.com/sandra_hurley/status/1355869575859101697


Phased reopening starting with Primary schools first? I've they're not back before Midterm then there isn't a hope Secondary or LC would be back until some time in March considering it's a phased reopening.

If this is right, which I would doubt a little since things MM has said do change, (LC clarity "last week" for example :rolleyes: ) then we'll have to see what happens.

Also hopefully we get LC clarity this week, bit of a joke we've been asking for it for over a month now.

km79

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0131/1194151-covid-19-ireland/

Professor Philip Nolan said the country could reach 200 to 400 new cases of Covid-19 a day by the end of February.

He said that in such a scenario, certain "high priority and low risk" opening up could happen without a significant increase in transmission of the virus, including in education and other priority areas in the Living with Covid plan.

I think it’s safe to say nobody will be back this side of mid term

PoolDude

km79 wrote: »

My main problem is how are the officers etc elected ?
I’ve never seen or heard of anything in this regard in the schools I’ve worked in . They are purporting to speak for all students across the country so this is an issue for me .

I think a far better way of garnering student voice would be the DES to survey students in all schools by means of student councils for example . But that would require the DES to actually be forward thinking .

In my sons school there voice has been represented by the head of the student council, a sixth year and they all got the survey. Seems fair but it seems your experience has been different which is good context

PoolDude

km79 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0131/1194151-covid-19-ireland/

Professor Philip Nolan said the country could reach 200 to 400 new cases of Covid-19 a day by the end of February.

He said that in such a scenario, certain "high priority and low risk" opening up could happen without a significant increase in transmission of the virus, including in education and other priority areas in the Living with Covid plan.

I think it’s safe to say nobody will be back this side of mid term

It’s starting to look like March earliest as rumoured on Friday

Mrsmum

km79 wrote: »

My main problem is how are the officers etc elected ?
I’ve never seen or heard of anything in this regard in the schools I’ve worked in . They are purporting to speak for all students across the country so this is an issue for me .

I think a far better way of garnering student voice would be the DES to survey students in all schools by means of student councils for example . But that would require the DES to actually be forward thinking .

First I heard of them was last year. Just had a look at their website and it looks quite professional. Most school student councils seem to be members of ISSU from a quick look at their map of membership(unless I'm reading it all wrong !).

CapriciousOne

They’re obviously having second thoughts regarding how and when to reopen, possibly due to the new strains and their effects. That’s quite evident from the noises that have come out this past week and reports from other countries.
Surely Norma should be held accountable for trying to force through a reopening based on out-dated information a few weeks back?

km79

PoolDude wrote: »

In my sons school there voice has been represented by the head of the student council, a sixth year and they all got the survey. Seems fair but it seems your experience has been different which is good context

Yes but it doesn’t answer how the ISSU officers etc are elected ?
Are all schools sent information asking for students to put themselves forward?
I’ve never seen or heard anything like that .
They have grown in public recognition and influence over the past 12 months so I think it’s important that we all consider /know how democratic it is etc etc
If they have a seat at the table for such important meetings along with everyone else then it’s fair to hope/expect they are a properly structured and organized union who represent the entire student body

jimmytwotimes 2013

CapriciousOne wrote: »

They’re obviously having second thoughts regarding how and when to reopen, possibly due to the new strains and their effects. That’s quite evident from the noises that have come out this past week and reports from other countries.
Surely Norma should be held accountable for trying to force through a reopening based on out-dated information a few weeks back?

I'd agree with this. New strain seems to have brought with it a new reality when compared to Sept-Dec run.

Norma was willing to fire us into her "safe" environment when it looks like they're far from safe.

wirelessdude01

Anyone following 'Dimmy Tooleys' twitter yesterday? Very funny the comments under his tweet of that Norwegian study. He obviously hadn't read the actual study and the parameters and conditions under which it had taken place and had only read the headline.

billy_beckham

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I'd agree with this. New strain seems to have brought with it a new reality when compared to Sept-Dec run.

Norma was willing to fire us into her "safe" environment when it looks like they're far from safe.

Luke O'Neill
@laoneill111
Important study from Norway- limited transmission of Covid19 in primary schools: ‘minimal child-to-child and child-to-adult transmission in primary schools...limited role of children in transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in school settings’

scooby77

PoolDude wrote: »

It’s starting to look like March earliest as rumoured on Friday

Yeah had thought be earlier, but unfortunately signs pointing in last few days to 22nd February for some pupils with additional needs then 8th March full return. I'm referring to primary. Had thought,and hoped, maybe 8th February for SET teachers returning....then the rest 22nd. Know my colleagues were thinking likewise.

Locotastic

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I'd agree with this. New strain seems to have brought with it a new reality when compared to Sept-Dec run.

Norma was willing to fire us into her "safe" environment when it looks like they're far from safe.

The UK strain has been here since at least September and we've been told the South African strain is considered to have been contained.

mohawk

Murple wrote: »

Funerals where limits haven’t been followed have apparently led to a number of large outbreaks.

Was talking to a relation of mine recently who recently lost their grandparent. I apologised saying how weird it was not to call to the house before the funeral. My relative was saying that plenty of people called to the house. Now this person has several health issues present since birth and is hoping to be a priority for the vaccine and gave up work in October when the cases started to climb.
Yet there were different people calling into their home every day for last two weeks.

Str8outtaWuhan

So

Monday 22nd 1st day after midterm
3 full weeks

March 17th Paddys day 4 day week

then

1 week teaching

Easter Holidays 2 week off

April 12th 1st day of last term

3 weeks full teaching

May bank holiday long weekend 3/4 day week depending if schools are taking extra day

4 full weeks til summer holidays

not exactly a long stretch for the LC to get orals, projects and practicals done all assuming LC back full time on the 22nd Feb( snowballs chance!!)

Stateofyou

Locotastic wrote: »

The UK strain has been here since at least September and we've been told the South African strain is considered to have been contained.

Would you not agree there's a world of difference to a strain being detected here and then months later becoming the dominant one?

That reality obviously changes things. As I heard today MM saying as such on radio interview.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0131/1194151-covid-19-ireland/?fbclid=IwAR2Uf6WKcCJkf0QBNvFRzg28JAdTmZhp5mpeRZgcsbvtmdSNjbBR96SdGTI

scrubs33

km79 wrote: »

Yes but it doesn’t answer how the ISSU officers etc are elected ?
Are all schools sent information asking for students to put themselves forward?
I’ve never seen or heard anything like that .
They have grown in public recognition and influence over the past 12 months so I think it’s important that we all consider /know how democratic it is etc etc
If they have a seat at the table for such important meetings along with everyone else then it’s fair to hope/expect they are a properly structured and organized union who represent the entire student body

On their recent back to school/exams survey the survey form was on their website and they requested that people only vote once. So I’m just wondering how accurate are their numbers given that these are the figures they will be using in talks with the SEC, Dept etc? Did everyone vote only once?

km79

scrubs33 wrote: »

On their recent back to school/exams survey the survey form was on their website and they requested that people only vote once. So I’m just wondering how accurate are their numbers given that these are the figures they will be using in talks with the SEC, Dept etc? Did everyone vote only once?

There was definitely multiple voting on their one last year
This is my point
They have an important seat at the table but is poor like to have a little more confidence in their whole organization than I do. It just seems to have gained huge momentum over Twitter and instagram over the last 12 months and I am not sure they represent as many students as they purport to. There was certainly a backlash against them when the reality of predicted grades/cancelling the LC dawned on many LC students last summer . They certainly felt their voice was not being heard !

jimmytwotimes 2013

billy_beckham wrote: »

Luke O'Neill
@laoneill111
Important study from Norway- limited transmission of Covid19 in primary schools: ‘minimal child-to-child and child-to-adult transmission in primary schools...limited role of children in transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in school settings’

I'm not primary

jimmytwotimes 2013

Locotastic wrote: »

The UK strain has been here since at least September and we've been told the South African strain is considered to have been contained.

And?

We hit a record peak after people socialising at Xmas so if it's the dominant strain now and people go back to mingling, we prob see another spike.

Mrsmum

km79 wrote: »

There was definitely multiple voting on their one last year
This is my point
They have an important seat at the table but is poor like to have a little more confidence in their whole organization than I do. It just seems to have gained huge momentum over Twitter and instagram over the last 12 months and I am not sure they represent as many students as they purport to. There was certainly a backlash against them when the reality of predicted grades/cancelling the LC dawned on many LC students last summer . They certainly felt their voice was not being heard !

Who knows if there was multiple voting last year but could one not see the proof being in the pudding in that the reality was that most students opted for P G . Maybe some didn't like how that worked out for them but that doesn't mean they were a larger cohort than those who were happy.

km79

Mrsmum wrote: »

Who knows if there was multiple voting last year but could one not see the proof being in the pudding in that the reality was that most students opted for P G . Maybe some didn't like how that worked out for them but that doesn't mean they were a larger cohort than those who were happy.

This was before the results of PG were known
It seemed like they shouted loudest but did no real consultation with the majority of students around the country

Anyways this is all an aside but I’m very very wary of a group that has come from nowhere to become a very influential group in the eye of Minister Foley .

Locotastic

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

And?

We hit a record peak after people socialising at Xmas so if it's the dominant strain now and people go back to mingling, we prob see another spike.

People need to not be mingling unnecessarily until main priority groups have been vaccinated.

The very reason for restrictions is so that our hospitals are not overrun. Another good reason is to allow children to go to school.

We've heard this many times, it's not that difficult but as we saw at Xmas there are a fair few who can't seem to help themselves.

I mean when you see the crowd coming back into the airport from holidays the other day you'd wonder about people's ability to understand the situation.

Locotastic

Taoiseach Micheál Martin said today that a prolonged suppression of the virus would see primary schools reopened on a phased basis and construction reopening when cases drop below 1,000 a day.

Professor Philip Nolan said that Ireland is progressing towards a place where the phased reopening of education can be considered.

https://www.thejournal.ie/reopening-economy-society-5341065-Jan2021/

TTLF

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

So

Monday 22nd 1st day after midterm
3 full weeks

March 17th Paddys day 4 day week

then

1 week teaching

Easter Holidays 2 week off

April 12th 1st day of last term

3 weeks full teaching

May bank holiday long weekend 3/4 day week depending if schools are taking extra day

4 full weeks til summer holidays

not exactly a long stretch for the LC to get orals, projects and practicals done all assuming LC back full time on the 22nd Feb( snowballs chance!!)

You forgot to factor in the 2 weeks mocks for schools still doing them
Even more time lost there

km79

TTLF wrote: »

You forgot to factor in the 2 weeks mocks for schools still doing them
Even more time lost there

I don’t see mocks going ahead in a lot of schools

jimmytwotimes 2013

km79 wrote: »

I don’t see mocks going ahead in a lot of schools

Some kind of mock is advisable as they'd get some shock if faced with full papers for first time ever if they get to sit LC, which is looking unlikely

km79

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Some kind of mock is advisable as they'd get some shock if faced with full papers for first time ever if they get to sit LC, which is looking unlikely

I don’t see this either which Is why I don’t see mocks taking place