Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

TTLF

Stateofyou wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/news/the-questions-every-parent-has-about-the-reopening-of-schools-but-the-department-of-education-wont-answer-40030136.html?fbclid=IwAR1C0D1NR66mENU8ukXLm_OEKNt5hD-c7uqdU_tNN3LgQJ0G9SKROK24mwc

The Irish Independent sent a list of questions to the Department earlier this week in an attempt to obtain clarity on schools.
The questions every parent has about the reopening of schools - but the Department of Education won’t answer.

Labour education spokesperson Aodhán Ó Ríordáin hit out at the department saying “there was no sense of drive” to resolve the issue and said “it’s as if the department has almost given up”.

The Irish Independent sent a list of questions to the Department earlier this week in an attempt to obtain clarity on the current state of play surrounding the opening of schools, but received answers to none.

The department did not respond to the specific questions but said “confidential talks” with unions and other education stakeholders were ongoing.

Below are the questions that every parent has about the re-opening of schools, but that the Department didn’t answer:

Has the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) been asked for any advice around the phased return of education?


Dr Tony Holohan has said Nphet have provided advice around the safe reopening of schools but did not specifically confirm whether it was around the phased reopening of the sector.

Have Nphet provided advice in relation to the promised imminent return of special needs education and then Leaving Cert students?

The department did not answer this question but Dr Holohan did say “it is up to the education sector to plan the resumption of activities”.

What criteria need to be met for Nphet to recommend the return to education to start?

This was not addressed by the Department.

What criteria need to be met for the full one million members of the school community to be fully returned?

This was not addressed by the Department.

Is there a date when the phased return will begin?

The only indication given so far was by Tánaiste Leo Varadkar when he disclosed the phased reopening was likely to begin “in the second half of February and in March”. There have been no dates provided for any students as of yet.

Can they specify the order of this return - special education, then Leaving Cert, then who - and the time between each phase of the return?

This was not addressed by the Department.

Will primary students all go back together or will it be further broken down by class?

This was not addressed by the Department.

Will students return on a five-day basis or blended learning?

Before the proposed reopening of schools in January was scrapped, Leaving Cert students were slated to return to school three days per week, on a rotational basis to minimise close contacts. It is unclear whether this will be the approach taken initially or whether all students will attend school five days per week.

Are there any plans to adjust school holidays - midterm breaks, Easter holidays, summer holidays?

Again, this was not addressed by the Department.

That's quite abysmal. :eek:

Think this part really got me.

"Labour education spokesperson Aodhán Ó Ríordáin hit out at the department saying “there was no sense of drive” to resolve the issue and said “it’s as if the department has almost given up”."

km79

I wonder what the Sunday papers will have in store for us

wirelessdude01

TTLF wrote: »

That's quite abysmal. :eek:

Think this part really got me.

"Labour education spokesperson Aodhán Ó Ríordáin hit out at the department saying “there was no sense of drive” to resolve the issue and said “it’s as if the department has almost given up”."

Aodhan is a bit of a flip flopper. He has been known to be very adamant on a story on Monday and will change his mind on Tuesday based on the reaction on twitter. In no way defending the DES.

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote: »

I wonder what the Sunday papers will have in store for us

Hopefully no more #MayoGAA retirements or another slice and dice from the obsessed man.

TTLF

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Aodhan is a bit of a flip flopper. He has been known to be very adamant on a story on Monday and will change his mind on Tuesday based on the reaction on twitter. In no way defending the DES.

If he is correct though that is concerning. Tbh though, I had an idea in me he was being a bit over the top/dramatic, a lot of politicians are when calling someone out.

wirelessdude01

TTLF wrote: »

If he is correct though that is concerning. Tbh though, I had an idea in me he was being a bit over the top/dramatic, a lot of politicians are when calling someone out.

Apart from the COB article there has been pretty minimal stories regarding the talks. That is the way to have it. Let them do their talking to each other rather than all sides having swipes at each other in the media and online. Get a plan in place that is workable and then release it and get us back to the school buildings in an organised and safe fashion. I don't want to hear rubbish about "schools are safe places". Schools are part of society. Societal behaviours are the determining factor in all of this. The very people breaking the rules are the ones shouting loudest and moaning online about things.

Locotastic

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The very people breaking the rules are the ones shouting loudest and moaning online about things.

How do you know this?

Murple

Mrsmum wrote: »

What's happening out there. We are a month on from Christmas, in level 5 lockdown, most people are WFH or at home on PUP, schools and colleges are closed, hospitality is closed down. Where is all this transmission happening ?

Funerals where limits haven’t been followed have apparently led to a number of large outbreaks.

copeyhagen

helpful wrote: »

A girl across the road from us has had her boyfriend down from Dublin this weekend. No idea how he travelled from Dublin to Munster without being stopped when they can stop people going to work 20 minutes away. No big deal to me because I won’t have any dealings with him but I did see him coming back from the local shop today so he’s out and about interacting. It’s very frustrating when I can’t go to work because of this sort of behaviour.

fookin bastrd. can we just presume he has covid and call the police or something? surely theres soemthign we can do.

how fooking dare they be in love.

TTLF

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Apart from the COB article there has been pretty minimal stories regarding the talks. That is the way to have it. Let them do their talking to each other rather than all sides having swipes at each other in the media and online. Get a plan in place that is workable and then release it and get us back to the school buildings in an organised and safe fashion. I don't want to hear rubbish about "schools are safe places". Schools are part of society. Societal behaviours are the determining factor in all of this. The very people breaking the rules are the ones shouting loudest and moaning online about things.

Yeah, that's true to an extent, I am happy they are doing talks of course, making a real effort towards fixing previous issues and they clearly acknowledge we cannot just return to school over time and act like it's all normal, maybe an American approach will have to occur, in some days, some online. Seems reasonable considering it'll be too unsafe to do a full opening with the new variant as of right now, and probably the rest of the academic year.

My only issue was the fact we were told we would be given clarity on LC last week. Don't get me wrong, I'd say "the wait is worth it" in this context considering well, hearing the ISSU update showed the traditional exam is basically out the window at this point, and other options are being discussed which hopefully can be clarified with a real plan instead of a wishy washy answer here and there. But it is unfair on those and It's really starting to toll on me now, feeling as unmotivated as ever the last 2-3 days, and I don't even know why... just feel like sh1te everyday since I'm stuck in loop, but in turn, makes me not want to work passed homework, even when I clearly have the time to do it....

I really hope we're back in school sooner than later, but of course I also want to feel safe. School really gets me fired up to learn and do well because of the routine and feeling of hard effort around me in study sessions etc. When you're in an environment alone, you just feel like it's not the same and you can't do as good. Lack of social interaction beyond online calls can also lead to this issue too.

I know I'm not alone here but I think I'm starting to be really hard on myself because I have no motivation, and it makes me feel like a lazy git who doesn't deserve to do well since I'm not feeling like putting the effort in since I'm horribly demotivated...

Also think the lack of clarity of mocks are an issue from my school, in my opinion I don't see LC back before midterm break simply because they're still doing discussions all this week coming and, it seems pointless to get LC's in for a week and then you're on break again. My mocks are due for the 22nd and I'm sure my school might hold them in some form, but if that is the case, then we miss out on 2 weeks of class time we could be using to catch up in courses where its harder to learn and comprehend the material needed to cover over Zoom.

Hopefully this week we can be given some clarity, if it was continuous assessment with projects and extra work you could hand in for extra credit I think that would really fire me up.

One thing they did say from the ISSU update was with orals, they're trying to make it that your project you did for the oral can go towards your assessment grade, which I worked hard on in TY for German. Interesting and new concept's being thrown around are pretty entertaining.

Link to that ISSU update if curious. Really well done/explained imo.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKpCzewJ2h7/

Thanks for reading

Lillyfae

giveitholly wrote: »

Wouldn't this be great and at least primary school children could get back to school

https://twitter.com/laoneill111/status/1355497536983732232?s=19

Very interesting.

grind gremlin

Lillyfae wrote: »

Very interesting.

If you read the study, it is based on data from 13 cases of covid identified in schools..... it not exactly a huge sample size...

CruelSummer

Quite a number of States in the US have started vaccinating their teachers and educators. It seems the US & U.K. have a much more plentiful supply of vaccine than the EU currently. Teachers position on the vaccine list here needs to be looked at.

https://twitter.com/ccpsinfo/status/1354867097613066251?s=21

grind gremlin

Lillyfae wrote: »

Very interesting.

This study of 13 cases was undertaken when community infection rates were at 150 per 100,000. We are well above that number now.

Lillyfae

grind gremlin wrote: »

If you read the study, it is based on data from 13 cases of covid identified in schools..... it not exactly a huge sample size...

It’s qualitative research, not quantitative.

thomasdylan

CruelSummer wrote: »

Quite a number of States in the US have started vaccinating their teachers and educators. It seems the US & U.K. have a much more plentiful supply of vaccine than the EU currently. Teachers position on the vaccine list here needs to be looked at.

What group do you move teachers ahead of?

PoolDude

Lillyfae wrote: »

It’s qualitative research, not quantitative.

Does it not also pre-date the new variants given the dates of August to November?

Lillyfae

PoolDude wrote: »

Does it not also pre-date the new variants given the dates of August to November?

We know that the UK variant was circulating as far back as September.

PoolDude

Stateofyou wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/news/the-questions-every-parent-has-about-the-reopening-of-schools-but-the-department-of-education-wont-answer-40030136.html?fbclid=IwAR1C0D1NR66mENU8ukXLm_OEKNt5hD-c7uqdU_tNN3LgQJ0G9SKROK24mwc

The Irish Independent sent a list of questions to the Department earlier this week in an attempt to obtain clarity on schools.
The questions every parent has about the reopening of schools - but the Department of Education won’t answer.

Labour education spokesperson Aodhán Ó Ríordáin hit out at the department saying “there was no sense of drive” to resolve the issue and said “it’s as if the department has almost given up”.

The Irish Independent sent a list of questions to the Department earlier this week in an attempt to obtain clarity on the current state of play surrounding the opening of schools, but received answers to none.

The department did not respond to the specific questions but said “confidential talks” with unions and other education stakeholders were ongoing.

Below are the questions that every parent has about the re-opening of schools, but that the Department didn’t answer:

Has the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) been asked for any advice around the phased return of education?


Dr Tony Holohan has said Nphet have provided advice around the safe reopening of schools but did not specifically confirm whether it was around the phased reopening of the sector.

Have Nphet provided advice in relation to the promised imminent return of special needs education and then Leaving Cert students?

The department did not answer this question but Dr Holohan did say “it is up to the education sector to plan the resumption of activities”.

What criteria need to be met for Nphet to recommend the return to education to start?

This was not addressed by the Department.

What criteria need to be met for the full one million members of the school community to be fully returned?

This was not addressed by the Department.

Is there a date when the phased return will begin?

The only indication given so far was by Tánaiste Leo Varadkar when he disclosed the phased reopening was likely to begin “in the second half of February and in March”. There have been no dates provided for any students as of yet.

Can they specify the order of this return - special education, then Leaving Cert, then who - and the time between each phase of the return?

This was not addressed by the Department.

Will primary students all go back together or will it be further broken down by class?

This was not addressed by the Department.

Will students return on a five-day basis or blended learning?

Before the proposed reopening of schools in January was scrapped, Leaving Cert students were slated to return to school three days per week, on a rotational basis to minimise close contacts. It is unclear whether this will be the approach taken initially or whether all students will attend school five days per week.

Are there any plans to adjust school holidays - midterm breaks, Easter holidays, summer holidays?

Again, this was not addressed by the Department.

Some of the indicators are there but are also changing:

Nphet did say cases in the low hundreds (with close contact testing)

Nphet have said schools were save but the challenge was mobilisation around them

Nphet are now calling out a concern that we can’t keep suppression levels at the low levels achieved this month

Nphet shared that 59% of yesterday’s cases were from the under 45 age group. It is believed the average of teachers are also in this group and previously Nohet shared the highest transmission group is 18 - 24 year olds

Uk variant is now above 60% of cases and confirmed as more transmissable with greater impact

These are all disparate points that along with others need to be considered together as collective answers and discussed as such

PoolDude

Lillyfae wrote: »

We know that the UK variant was circulating as far back as September.

But at low levels and was it detected in this very small sample size of 13. If so great

Mrsmum

thomasdylan wrote: »

What group do you move teachers ahead of?

Looking at the list, imo, at best, teachers could be moved up one or two spaces so still far off an immediate solution.

thomasdylan

Mrsmum wrote: »

Looking at the list, imo, at best, teachers could be moved up one or two spaces so still far off an immediate solution.

Yeah that's what I think. Maybe 1 space.
There's been lots of complaining about '11th of 14' but not much justification for changing it.

Locotastic

Mrsmum wrote: »

Looking at the list, imo, at best, teachers could be moved up one or two spaces so still far off an immediate solution.

If by some miracle we could have all teachers and school staff vaccinated tomorrow it wouldn't really change a lot.

The reason the schools are closed is to stop interaction between 1 million+ people travelling to and from school each day and the mobility around that while community rates were high and hospitals over capacity.

NPHET are still of the view that that there is very little evidence of transmission in schools and that they are "safe".

We haven't even started vaccinating over 70s group yet, so teachers will be lucky to be done this school year.

khalessi

[QUOTE=Locotastic;116115597

We haven't even started vaccinating over 70s group yet, so teachers will be lucky to be done this school year.[/QUOTE]


Yep in the original guidelines teachers were down for Sept Oct, then this moved to the summer but now with vaccine supply issues and delays I can see if moving back to Autumn.

Mrsmum

For the record, if only for selfish reasons, I would only love for teachers to be vaccinated and therefore schools open again but I just don't see much scope for who you would bump down. Teachers with medical issues would hopefully be caught in other earlier groups.

km79

No leaks in sunday papers so I assume nothing happening this side of the mid term

Regarding the ISSU........I watched most of the link posted earlier (skipped ahead the intro and a few other bits) . I did not hear one mention of special needs students ? Do they only represent mainstream students ..........
I still maintain as I did last year that they only represent a very vocal minority who have a desired outcome that suits them only. Maybe things have changed but last year they were roaring to cancel the LC and use predicted grades as that’s what all students wanted. When predicted grades were announced it became apparent that this was not the case. Student voice needs to be heard in these talks but one that represents all students . I’m not sure they do . That video has circa 7k views . The survey has approx 20k responses .There are approx 370k secondary school students . 60k in leaving cert.

In terms of case numbers the real picture will become clearer over the next week and I now think no students will return before mid term. They are probably taking the correct cautious approach before commuting to a timescale but need to communicate this if this is the case

http://twitter.com/Stephen_Murphy5/status/1355835892645175298

Stateofyou

TTLF wrote: »

If he is correct though that is concerning. Tbh though, I had an idea in me he was being a bit over the top/dramatic, a lot of politicians are when calling someone out.

You'd want to see the video of him in the Dail lifting Norma Foley out of it. Very satisfying.

Locotastic

Mrsmum wrote: »

For the record, if only for selfish reasons, I would only love for teachers to be vaccinated and therefore schools open again but I just don't see much scope for who you would bump down. Teachers with medical issues would hopefully be caught in other earlier groups.

Vaccines should be prioritised for frontline health workers and groups most likely to get serious illness (therefore impacting our health system) and the people who care for those groups.

If teachers fall into an earlier group due to underlying conditions then they will be vaccinated earlier.

Once these groups are completed then the concern over hospital, ICU numbers and deaths will be much less and we'll have made good progress to having our regular lives back.

I think the current schedule is fair and I count myself lucky that I am healthy and young enough probably not to need vaccinating until the very last group.

Vaccinating all teachers does not equal schools all reopening.

Stateofyou

Mrsmum wrote: »

For the record, if only for selfish reasons, I would only love for teachers to be vaccinated and therefore schools open again but I just don't see much scope for who you would bump down. Teachers with medical issues would hopefully be caught in other earlier groups.

Locotastic wrote: »

If by some miracle we could have all teachers and school staff vaccinated tomorrow it wouldn't really change a lot.

The reason the schools are closed is to stop interaction between 1 million+ people travelling to and from school each day and the mobility around that while community rates were high and hospitals over capacity.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but Locotastic makes a good point here.

TTLF

Stateofyou wrote: »

You'd want to see the video of him in the Dail lifting Norma Foley out of it. Very satisfying.

Think I have seen it actually, he starts off very low and civilised explaining the issues and then by the end he’s going A-Wall