Government flip flops / school closures

notwhoyouthink

I would assume most school principals would be already implementing online-based solutions. It shouldn't be necessary to wait for a decision. Put in place the solutions now, and you will be ready for whatever happens next week.
To reason that schools can't get online from Wednesday so as to keep the show on the road.

wirelessdude01

Norma needs to be asked to resign if schools aren't all fully open. She really is rubbish.

rainbowtrout

Icsics wrote: »

Norma & the ‘spokespeople’ having a tele conference re schools....says it all

They should have it in a school, then they'd be safe.

rainbowtrout

scrubs33 wrote: »

But she didn't make the cut for the meeting tomorrow about actually making the decision to open/close schools. finance, health, public expenditure, NPHET and HSE will all be there. Morto for her.

Wow. That says it all really.

rainbowtrout

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Norma is in Knock, praying for a massive snow storm so that she can claim that's the reasons school buildings aren't open.

I'd say all of NPHET are with her, it's the only thing that will keep people indoors.

rainbowtrout

Minister no longer expecting schools to fully reopen

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/ministers-no-longer-expect-schools-to-fully-reopen-on-january-11-39930326.html

notwhoyouthink

You know it should be possible to get kids back to school on the 11th if it was done on a phase and rotational basis. Certainly it should be the priority to get senior cycle students back even on a rotational basis. For example, divide class into cohorts and cohorts attend on an alternating basis.

lulublue22

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Minister no longer expecting schools to fully reopen

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/ministers-no-longer-expect-schools-to-fully-reopen-on-january-11-39930326.html

My issue with this is that it is too late in the day - this is one of the areas that should have formed part of contingency plans. Have high risk teachers been collated so a system can be put in place whereby high risk teachers wfh and provide online while schools open for front line workers and I presume special schools. Given the wide definition of essential workers it could mean quite a lot of children in school. A logistical nightmare to implement in such a short time frame. Will it be let up to schools to try and cater for both groups. If this had been flagged in September as a possibility and potential children identified - schools would be in a much better position to have it sorted.

km79

lulublue22 wrote: »

My issue with this is that it is too late in the day - this is one of the areas that should have formed part of contingency plans. Have high risk teachers been collated so a system can be put in place whereby high risk teachers wfh and provide online while schools open for front line workers and I presume special schools. Given the wide definition of essential workers it means quite a lot of children in school. A logistical nightmare to implement in such a short time frame. Will it be let up to schools to try and cater for both groups.

It’s unworkable

lulublue22

km79 wrote: »

It’s unworkable

At this point - far far to messy to implement at this late stage. If this gies ahead then it will create huge issues for access to education.

mosii

Leave them off for 2 weeks,and get the time back at Easter.

Rosita

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Norma needs to be asked to resign if schools aren't all fully open. She really is rubbish.

Totally agree. She was taking the kudos when they were open and declaring it a success (rather than just thanking caretakers for fcuking everything bar tables and chairs our). Therefore not reopening is failure and she should step down.

rainbowtrout

Just got an email from the TUI area rep that said TUI have recommended reopening on Jan 18th

Dempo1

Jesus wept what a day if mixed messages, he said, she said and utter ineptitude from government ministers. Seems the instructions from the powers that be is "we are guided by public health advice", no they are not, no they haven't, if they had, this mess would not have been allowed to be created in the first place. What utterly shocking is Leaky Leo & Co have been saying for months, Government make decisions, not these buffoons are saying it should be a NPHET decision. Mother of God is there no end to this appalling incompetence.

3 weeks of Christmas chaos, as I type 6000 new cases, just appalling.

Rosita

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

You know it should be possible to get kids back to school on the 11th if it was done on a phase and rotational basis. Certainly it should be the priority to get senior cycle students back even on a rotational basis. For example, divide class into cohorts and cohorts attend on an alternating basis.

I'd disagree. If they are going to shut, just shut them for the duration of the restrictions and we all know where we stand. Partial opening for many students who probably wouldn't come in anyway is just an exercise in optics. The LCs as far as I'm concerned anyway have plenty to occupy them with mocks coming up. The problem here is just fear of making a decision.

Rosita

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Just got an email from the TUI area rep that said TUI have recommended reopening on Jan 18th

I'm not sure unions are really in a position to recommend the specifics of actions in the middle of a pandemic, unless they are employing independent and top quality medical advice. By all means look for evidence, assurances etc. but I'd stand back and avoid being part of any train crash.

notwhoyouthink

I think people are being a little harsh on the government. The message is pretty clear - a decision will be made on Wednesday based on an analysis by NPET as to whether it is safe for schools to resume. The government are taking a nuanced, evidence-based approach rather than pre-supposing schools are not safe.

If the evidence suggests that schools are safe, then it is perfectly reasonable that schools should resume on Monday 11th. We need to make decisions based on the science not on popular perceptions of what is safe and what isn't.

A decision will be made on Wednesday - end of.

TheValeyard

Be interesting to see if it's full educational closure or 3rd level continues as usual online. Or will creches and primary close or partial opening? Will secondary go online or some blended learning option.

amacca

Rosita wrote: »

I'm not sure unions are really in a position to recommend the specifics of actions in the middle of a pandemic, unless they are employing independent and top quality medical advice. By all means look for evidence, assurances etc. but I'd stand back and avoid being part of any train crash.

I agree, how did they come up with the 18th would be my first question ?

Desperately looking like they are trying to do something or appear somehow relevant......my next question would be how is this suggestion in their rank n file/ordinary members best interests.......do they recommend this for all (especially given they represent 3rd level) ...one would imagine a one size fits all policy doesn't work across 3rd and second etc

rainbowtrout

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

I think people are being a little harsh on the government. The message is pretty clear - a decision will be made on Wednesday based on an analysis by NPET as to whether it is safe for schools to resume. The government are taking a nuanced, evidence-based approach rather than pre-supposing schools are not safe.

If the evidence suggests that schools are safe, then it is perfectly reasonable that schools should resume on Monday 11th. We need to make decisions based on the science not on popular perceptions of what is safe and what isn't.

A decision will be made on Wednesday - end of.

We have no idea how many of the people that have been diagnosed with covid in the last week are teachers and students. If we are going to be seeing numbers like this evening for the next week or so, then there's only so much we can do in schools.

rainbowtrout

amacca wrote: »

I agree, how did they come up with the 18th would be my first question ?

Desperately looking like they are trying to do something or appear somehow relevant...

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest to stay closed for another week (whether that's closed in the holiday sense or move to online teaching) to see if there is any decrease in the number of cases.

The general vibe on the thread here for the last few days is that there is no way schools can open on the 11th. Not sure why its so surprising then that one of the teaching unions have recommended just that.

Rosita

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

The government are taking a nuanced, evidence-based approach rather than pre-supposing schools are not safe.

/QUOTE]

To be fair, I don't think any of us thought they were just going to guess. We would probably assume that evidence would come into play.

The disrepute occurs when you have someone like Josepha Madigan going on the radio today saying that schools are safe and that they will open on Monday. All she has to say is acknowledge the reality that is now widespread gossip and say "it's under review in the circumstances and we'll communicate a decision in good time". A government spokesperson blatantly saying stuff we know to be a holding position with probably little truth is what makes people go hard on the government.

Same sh*te as last March when it was "schools won't close, schools won't close, schools won't close" and then suddenly not only were schools closing but were closing that day and you didn't even get until the following day to get organised.

Rosita

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest to stay closed for another week (whether that's closed in the holiday sense or move to online teaching) to see if there is any decrease in the number of cases.

.

Not unreasonable maybe but why bother? What will they do on the 18th - start giving weekly updates on what they think? It's a bit weird for a union to make a comment like that on the eve of a government announcement, and especially in the teeth of such infection spread of which, I would assume, they have no expertise. Unless of course they know that the government are going to announce "nothing to see here, full steam ahead in schools on Monday" and they think it shouldn't happen.

notwhoyouthink

Rosita wrote: »

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

The government are taking a nuanced, evidence-based approach rather than pre-supposing schools are not safe.

/QUOTE]

To be fair, I don't think any of us thought they were just going to guess. We would probably assume that evidence would come into play.

The disrepute occurs when you have someone like Josepha Madigan going on the radio today saying that schools are safe and that they will open on Monday. All she has to say is acknowledge the reality that us now widespread gossip and say "it's under review in the circumstances and we'll communicate a decision in good time". A government spokesperson blatantly saying stuff we know to be a holding position with probably little truth is what makes people go hard on the government.

Same sh*te as last March when it was "schools won't close, schools won't close, schools won't close" and then suddenly not only were schools closing but were closing that day and you didn't even get until the following day to get organised.

I disagree. The position as of right now is that schools are schedule to reopen on January 11th. Minister Madigan was simply affirming the policy that schools reopen. That is the position, and that is what she outlined.

If she were to say the decision was under review, it would create even more uncertainty as it would be unclear when schools are reopening.

Everyone has certainty at the moment - plan for January 11th return to school. If there is a change in policy, then at least everyone will have been prepared.

acequion

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

I think people are being a little harsh on the government. The message is pretty clear - a decision will be made on Wednesday based on an analysis by NPET as to whether it is safe for schools to resume. The government are taking a nuanced, evidence-based approach rather than pre-supposing schools are not safe.

If the evidence suggests that schools are safe, then it is perfectly reasonable that schools should resume on Monday 11th. We need to make decisions based on the science not on popular perceptions of what is safe and what isn't.

A decision will be made on Wednesday - end of.

I think people aren't being harsh enough on the Govt. And given the situation we're in, being a Govt apologist is rather absurd.

This has been going on for 10 long months. The LC of 2020 turned into a major fiasco because the then Minister made it up as he went along. Aided and abetted by his overlords in the Dail. The LC will go ahead "by hook or by crook" anyone?? And we won't even go into the cock up they made of the calculated grades process.

And in every other aspect of the management of this crisis the Govt, particularly the current administration, have been less than impressive. And I'm actually being kind. Poor communication all round, enormous amounts of scaremongering and finger wagging at the general population and despite it all look where we are now! And it's a bit simplistic to go blaming Joe Public.

No way would I have your blind faith in what the "evidence suggests" or your blind faith in their meeting on Wednesday. We've been down that road before. And we've been duped before.

peckerhead

If Josepha Madigan said it was a nice day outside I'd bring an umbrella. Seldom seen a more brazen liar to hold public office. And that's saying something.

notwhoyouthink

rainbowtrout wrote: »

We have no idea how many of the people that have been diagnosed with covid in the last week are teachers and students. If we are going to be seeing numbers like this evening for the next week or so, then there's only so much we can do in schools.

It doesn't actually matter how many are diagnosed, the procedures that applied and worked well in October and November will work in January. The cases are artificially high due to lags in reporting, and I expect they will even out soon.

amacca

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

Rosita wrote: »

I disagree. The position as of right now is that schools are schedule to reopen on January 11th. Minister Madigan was simply affirming the policy that schools reopen. That is the position, and that is what she outlined.

If she were to say the decision was under review, it would create even more uncertainty as it would be unclear when schools are reopening.

Everyone has certainty at the moment - plan for January 11th return to school. If there is a change in policy, then at least everyone will have been prepared.

no one has certainty because the policy is deny deny deny...until you are forced not to

I take your point however she has to toe the line in the moment.....cant help thinking if they had a plan for this eventuality they wouldnt need to be denying the obvious up until they cant....while its an uncertain situation this to me shows they are not handling it very well and havent really improved since last march

amacca

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest to stay closed for another week (whether that's closed in the holiday sense or move to online teaching) to see if there is any decrease in the number of cases.

The general vibe on the thread here for the last few days is that there is no way schools can open on the 11th. Not sure why its so surprising then that one of the teaching unions have recommended just that.

Oh given the numbers I dont think its unreasonable they stay shut for longer tbh but given those numbers why would it be any better to reopen on the 18th than the 11th?....................I dont have much faith in dates pulled out of holes....

Where did they come up with that?...Id like to have seen the process.........

Rosita

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

Rosita wrote: »

I disagree. The position as of right now is that schools are schedule to reopen on January 11th. Minister Madigan was simply affirming the policy that schools reopen. That is the position, and that is what she outlined.

If she were to say the decision was under review, it would create even more uncertainty as it would be unclear when schools are reopening.

Everyone has certainty at the moment - plan for January 11th return to school. If there is a change in policy, then at least everyone will have been prepared.

The uncertainty is there already. The government had lost control of that when you have journalists on last night's news saying that Ministers are privately conceding schools will close. The next challenge is to not look like a liar or a buffer and that you gave some semblance of control of the message and you're not just a talking press release.