COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Le Bruise

caveat emptor wrote: »

Ok sure but that's not as much as our neighbour.

I realise that. But you said Ireland weren’t doing as well with administering the vaccine. I refuted this by saying we’ve administered 90% (possibly more) of the vaccines received into the country. I’m not disputing the fact that the U.K. have far more supply than we have (at this present moment).

Wolf359f

McGiver wrote: »

Why Ireland needs to compare itself with the UK?

Is not a fair comparison even if we do it per capita. UK is a huge country with massive resource, financial, administrative, infrastructure possibilities etc. Also, UK ruled a Global Empire just 100 years.

Good comparator for Ireland is Finland, Denmark, and maybe Belgium or Austria.

Note: your graph doesn't show fully vaccinated. With 2 doses. Ireland is double the UK figure per capita in fully vaccinated. And with a more efficacious vaccine (more to come Moderna, AZ, J&J, Novavax, Curevac in that order).

The graph is also using outdated figures for Ireland also.
Can't have Ireland up close to the top when you want to bash them for what ever reason he wants to.

caveat emptor

Wolf359f wrote: »

The graph is also using outdated figures for Ireland also.
Can't have Ireland up close to the top when you want to bash them for what ever reason he wants to.

It's not just Ireland. As I understand the president of the EU commission herself said "we got some things wrong" in relation to this. I'd tend to agree with her. On a personal level I have one sister in a hospital in UK who works as a nurse who has received 2 doses of Pfizer. I've another sister who works in a hospital in Ireland who hasn't received one dose of any vaccine yet. Both work with Covid patients. I know anecdotal is the gold standard around here but it's True hence my questioning.

I realise these issues are down to supply but it was entirely predictable. 100% gonna happen. Of course you got labelled a doom monger or worse still Anthony Staines if you raised it at the time. The fact it came to pass is irrelevant to most and we should focus on being positive instead of reviewing what went wrong.

As for data freshness. Please don't cast dispersions about me. It's from our world in data which is a great reference. I imagine putting together such disparate and different datasets creates issues. Given how long it took our own gov to start counting properly I'd suggest that you are coming across a little bit judgey.

Of course UK strategy of getting at least one dose in as many people as possible is different to Ireland's and EUs and that distorts numbers. In most measures they are far exceeding what we are doing. Fully vaccinated we have done more. Denmark who is a smaller EU country more similar to ourselves has dosed 50% more of their population as a percentage of total. i.e [2.63 vs 1.76] so not perfect.

gally74

caveat emptor wrote: »

It's not just Ireland. As I understand the president of the EU commission herself said "we got some things wrong" in relation to this. I'd tend to agree with her. On a personal level I have one sister in a hospital in UK who works as a nurse who has received 2 doses of Pfizer. I've another sister who works in a hospital in Ireland who hasn't received one dose of any vaccine yet. Both work with Covid patients. I know anecdotal is the gold standard around here but it's True hence my questioning.

I realise these issues are down to supply but it was entirely predictable. 100% gonna happen. Of course you got labelled a doom monger or worse still Anthony Staines if you raised it at the time. The fact it came to pass is irrelevant to most and we should focus on being positive instead of reviewing what went wrong.

As for data freshness. Please don't cast dispersions about me. It's from our world in data which is a great reference. I imagine putting together such disparate and different datasets creates issues. Given how long it took our own gov to start counting properly I'd suggest that you are coming across a little bit judgey.

Of course UK strategy of getting at least one dose in as many people as possible is different to Ireland's and EUs and that distorts numbers. In most measures they are far exceeding what we are doing. Fully vaccinated we have done more. Denmark who is a smaller EU country more similar to ourselves has dosed 50% more of their population as a percentage of total. i.e [2.63 vs 1.76] so not perfect.

If Ireland recieved more, we would have injected more,

If we were outside of Europe , we probably would be in the same situation as were a small country.

Every one is frustrated, but i feel paul reid and co are diung a good job

caveat emptor

gally74 wrote: »

If Ireland recieved more, we would have injected more,

If we were outside of Europe , we probably would be in the same situation as were a small country.

Every one is frustrated, but i feel paul reid and co are diung a good job

Totally agree with all of that. I don't know what the EU were doing. It's a pity but can only get better. I remember at the time people saying it would be great because we are part of the bloc. The solidarity and cost aspect is important and appealing but the added bureaucratic and time delay probably created the situation we see now. Not agile enough.

Also there was very little solidarity shown from EU to Ireland when article 16 was implemented without the consent of anyone on the Island of Ireland.

This is a race and more so now with variants etc.

Szero

The US have agreed to purchase 100 million more Moderna & 100 million more Pfizer vaccines. Also, 100 million previously slated for late June will now be delivered in late May.

Are the EU actively trying to purchase more Moderna and Pfizer vaccines?

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1359992797202423808

quartz1

There was. Reuters piece earlier this week that Johnson and Johnson proposed to ship all EU made vaccine to the US to be bottled. If that the case we may have the same issue of a poorly constructed purchase agreement and the US getting all the early production.. UK and US will have vaccinated everyone and the EU Commission will be left making excuses

JacksonHeightsOwn

quartz1 wrote: »

There was. Reuters piece earlier this week that Johnson and Johnson proposed to ship all EU made vaccine to the US to be bottled. If that the case we may have the same issue of a poorly constructed purchase agreement and the US getting all the early production.. UK and US will have vaccinated everyone and the EU Commission will be left making excuses

Wouldn't shock you if that was the case.

We've learned plenty of things throughout this pandemic, and one of them is that Von Der leyen and some of her snobby old number cohorts'heads should roll.

All these vaccines being made by European companies yet we're last to the table.

It's inexcusable

quartz1

Donnolly was outlining the expected end dates for the over 70s and one suspects they haven't a clue what deliveries to expect from the EU contracts.. it was an epic failure by Ursula and the EU Commission ....it will become even more epic as time passes and we see other Countries miles ahead in vaccination rates. Michael & Leo won't achieve much by been the most obedient boys in the EU Class on this matter and she should be called out on it

quartz1

quartz1 wrote: »

There was. Reuters piece earlier this week that Johnson and Johnson proposed to ship all EU made vaccine to the US to be bottled. If that the case we may have the same issue of a poorly constructed purchase agreement and the US getting all the early production.. UK and US will have vaccinated everyone and the EU Commission will be left making excuses

Bloomberg said it was some, not all. Part of the contract with the US. Do you have any source for it being all? I can't find it on Reuters.

titan18

caveat emptor wrote: »

Ok sure but that's not as much as our neighbour.

What I find interesting there isn't so much UK but Serbia. Similar sized country outside the EU and in Europe and they're well ahead of us.

dominatinMC

Azatadine wrote: »

Some positive news.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/11/pfizer-vaccine-strong-response-new-covid-variants

Brilliant news, some of the posters on here perpetually citing variants/strains will be crying into their cornflakes this morning.

quartz1

https://www.reuters.com/article/healthcoronavirus-eu-johnsonjohnson/update-1-four-eu-states-urge-eu-to-safeguard-johnson-johnson-vaccine-supply-idUSL1N2KB1CW

Sky King

titan18 wrote: »

What I find interesting there isn't so much UK but Serbia. Similar sized country outside the EU and in Europe and they're well ahead of us.

Aren't they using Sputnik V though?

JacksonHeightsOwn

Sky King wrote: »

Aren't they using Sputnik V though?

Something we should be doing to.

But as stated above, our "leaders" are too obedient to walk their own path.

titan18

Sky King wrote: »

Aren't they using Sputnik V though?

If it works, good for them tbf.

is_that_so

Piece on the numbers of vaccines on order - about 10bn.



https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03370-6

Ficheall

Apogee wrote: »

From tomorrow's Times (UK).

Resolution isn't great on my machine - is there a decimal point I'm not seeing, or does that say it prevents 1 in 25 deaths (4%)?

Ficheall

dominatinMC wrote: »

Brilliant news, some of the posters on here perpetually citing variants/strains will be crying into their cornflakes this morning.

Why would they be crying into their cornflakes? I'm going to credit you with the intelligence not to actually believe people want the vaccines to fail, so are you just lying to try be funny?

PhoenixParker

No it says that for every 25 people given the medicine a life was saved.
It cuts deaths by 30-50%.

According to the article, it's given at the point people require breathing assistance.
A certain number of those people will die but most will recover.

So in a group of 50, if you'd expected 4 people to die before, but give them all this drug, now only 2 will die.
Deaths are cut by 50% and you've saved one life for every 25 people who have received the drug.

Ficheall

PhoenixParker wrote: »

No it says that for every 25 people given the medicine a life was saved.
It cuts deaths by 30-50%.

According to the article, it's given at the point people require breathing assistance.
A certain number of those people will die but most will recover.

So in a group of 50, if you'd expected 4 people to die before, but give them all this drug, now only 2 will die.
Deaths are cut by 50% and you've saved one life for every 25 people who have received the drug.

I'm not long awake, so I'm probably missing something.. I see in a combo with something else it cuts deaths by a reasonable portion, but the 1 in 25 thing, I don't get.
If I give a thousand people smarties and 40 of them survive.. I'm not sure I'd call that a win for smarties. Not that saving the 40 lives isn't worthwhile, but I'm finding it difficult to believe they ran a test on the basis "We reckon these smarties will save 4% of people we give it to, let's test it", and it sounds more like the type of number that would arise from, say, giving the thousand people a mix of various confectionery and finding that, say, people were marginally less likely to die if they had taken a certain brand, which seems like an unrelated correlation. Some confectionery was always going to, statistically, yield better results. I'll look up the study later - thanks for clarifying I wasn't misreading. The combo does sound promising anyway.

Edit: wait, I get it. Thanks. I'm still interested in having a look at the statistical significance of the results, but thanks for clarifying where the numbers are coming from.

dominatinMC

Ficheall wrote: »

Why would they be crying into their cornflakes? I'm going to credit you with the intelligence not to actually believe people want the vaccines to fail, so are you just lying to try be funny?

You don't need to credit me with anything, thanks though. I'm basing my judgement on the posting history and style of some users on here and, in my opinion, it is indeed credible that some want the vaccines to fail. As to the reason why, I can only delve into the realm of speculation.

funnydoggy

To be fair, there *are* some posters (some have been threadbanned) that would rather see us going for a zero covid approach and there are others who just plain benefit from lockdowns and restrictions.

First it was:

"No vaccines for coronaviruses exists",

then

"No vaccine for 18 months"

then

"The vaccines might not be effective"

then

"The vaccine works but what about the variants?" or "The HSE is so slow, we won't be vaccinated for another year or two - here's an online calculator proving that"

What's next?

"The vaccine makes the frogs gay" ?

giveitholly

Luke O'Neill is always good to keep the positivity going

https://twitter.com/laoneill111/status/1360157377484513280?s=19

Mark1916

https://twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1360168899275325443?s=20

is_that_so

Mark1916 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1360168899275325443?s=20

Some more information on the status of that Curevac trial.


https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04652102

Skyfloater

Is the EMA still waiting for J&J to submit their request for approval, and if so, it begs the question why? Surely the data they sent to the American FDA is the exact same for us Europeans. The EMA should be offering to fill out the paperwork for J&J, not passively waiting for the application to arrive in the post.

Turtwig

Skyfloater wrote: »

Is the EMA still waiting for J&J to submit their request for approval, and if so, it begs the question why? Surely the data they sent to the American FDA is the exact same for us Europeans. The EMA should be offering to fill out the paperwork for J&J, not passively waiting for the application to arrive in the post.

No the EMA absolutely should not be filing out the J & J application. There's a reason why these processes exist.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Skyfloater wrote: »

Is the EMA still waiting for J&J to submit their request for approval, and if so, it begs the question why? Surely the data they sent to the American FDA is the exact same for us Europeans. The EMA should be offering to fill out the paperwork for J&J, not passively waiting for the application to arrive in the post.

The Yanks have first dibs until April 1st because of Operation Warp Speed anyway. Apparently the EMA will receive the application near the end of the month, it'll take a couple of weeks to approve so on track for deliveries at the beginning of April.

Water John

One suspects the EMA will be a bit quicker now, having had a fire been lit under them.