COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Necro

So the approval of the vaccine is almost upon us, indeed approved in some countries already (and the old thread was nearing 10k posts)

Threadbans carry over from the first thread as below


Mod: The purpose of this thread is baked into the title - COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures - it's not a platform to push an anti vaccination agenda. If posters wish to discuss the perceived cons of vaccinations, or push various theories regarding 'the agenda' (whatever that is supposed to mean), open a thread elsewhere on it.

Necro wrote: »

Mod:

Folks, if you are not discussing the vaccine rollout or testing procedures then you shouldn't be posting here. There are a multitude of threads to discuss the competency/incompetency of the HSE (in relation to Covid-19) in this forum.

Don't do it here or you'll be threadbanned going forward.

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ACitizenErased

Am I right in saying the first EMA meeting is Monday? Does anyone know if it will be approved there and then?

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Am I right in saying the first EMA meeting is Monday? Does anyone know if it will be approved there and then?

I could have this wrong but I believe the approval process i read the other day was EMA give the green light and EU commission is the one that then signs off on it shortly after. Much like the FDA get the advisory committee first, they recommend approval then FDA signs off.

ACitizenErased

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I could have this wrong but I believe the approval process i read the other day was EMA give the green light and EU commission is the one that then signs off on it shortly after. Much like the FDA get the advisory committee first, they recommend approval then FDA signs off.

I assume the commission plan to meet Tuesday or Wednesday hopefully

alchemist33

I got the vaccine earlier in NI and someone asked about the rollout. It's carehome staff and residents first, then the next round is staff in high risk hospital wards (ICU, respiratory wards), staff in primary care centres dealing with covid, staff in mental health inpatient units, other staff who are vulnerable including BAME folks.

Marhay70

I can't remember but has there been any instances of vaccine being given to people who had already contracted Covid and what was the result?

Necro

Marhay70 wrote: »

I can't remember but has there been any instances of vaccine being given to people who had already contracted Covid and what was the result?

Hoping to find that out myself

Cork2021

Necro wrote: »

Hoping to find that out myself

Should people who’ve had confirmed COVID be at the back of the queue?

nommm

Marhay70 wrote: »

I can't remember but has there been any instances of vaccine being given to people who had already contracted Covid and what was the result?

The Pfizer trial included people who had already been infected. No adverse impact. The others probably did aswell.

Micky 32

To qoute Dr Fauci today regarding the vaccines “ Come January, February, March, that light at the end of the tunnel will get brighter and brighter...”

Marhay70

nommm wrote: »

The Pfizer trial included people who had already been infected. No adverse impact. The others probably did aswell.

But did it have any beneficial effect?

Necro

Cork2021 wrote: »

Should people who’ve had confirmed COVID be at the back of the queue?

I'd say no personally, but some might consider me selfish. Just stick to the groups as already assigned imo, trying to break them into 'have had Covid' and 'have not had Covid' would over-complicate things.

aziz

How will we know the vaccine is working, will the survival rate go from 99.7% to 99.8%

Ce he sin

aziz wrote: »

How will we know the vaccine is working, will the survival rate go from 99.7% to 99.8%

Ask the families and friends of the 2,000 plus people who have died of Covid in Ireland.

odyssey06

Ce he sin wrote: »

Ask the families and friends of the 2,000 plus people who have died of Covid in Ireland.

Or the thousands saved in ICU.

Gael23

Micky 32 wrote: »

To qoute Dr Fauci today regarding the vaccines “ Come January, February, March, that light at the end of the tunnel will get brighter and brighter...”

But not in Ireland

Polar101

Cork2021 wrote: »

Should people who’ve had confirmed COVID be at the back of the queue?

I'd say no, they could still be in a vulnerable group - and it's probably more trouble than it's worth to separate people into even more groups. Not sure if there are enough "already had it" -people to make a big difference in the speed of the vaccinations, anyway.

Micky 32

Gael23 wrote: »

But not in Ireland

Where did i say Ireland? :rolleyes: it was about a general comment regarding vaccines.

Stormyteacup

odyssey06 wrote: »

Or the thousands saved in ICU.

Do you mean people saved in ICU who were Covid positive, or non-Covid related admittances to ICU? There were approx 650 people who tested positive for Covid admitted to ICU.

odyssey06

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Do you mean people saved in ICU who were Covid positive, or non-Covid related admittances to ICU? There were approx 650 people who tested positive for Covid admitted to ICU.

Both. The battle against covid is to keep our hospitals functioning without being overwhelmed with covid patients... so vaccines have a clear role there.

daydorunrun

I’ve been trawling the old thread looking for a link to a nasal spray that supposedly offers some protection against Covid, can anybody help me out? Can’t remember the name of it.

https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/moderna-ends-frozen-requirements-for-vaccine-easing-logistics-of-shipping-1.5237239

Moderna have said their vaccine is no longer required to be kept frozen when shipped locally. It can be kept refrigerated between 2-8°C. That will make a huge difference logistically.

noserider

daydorunrun wrote: »

I’ve been trawling the old thread looking for a link to a nasal spray that supposedly offers some protection against Covid, can anybody help me out? Can’t remember the name of it.

Taffix

stephenjmcd

Hardyn wrote: »

https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/moderna-ends-frozen-requirements-for-vaccine-easing-logistics-of-shipping-1.5237239

Moderna have said their vaccine is no longer required to be kept frozen when shipped locally. It can be kept refrigerated between 2-8°C. That will make a huge difference logistically.

Excellent news, will make rollout very easy

Polar101

Belgian minister reveals how much the EU is paying for vaccines.. she wasn't supposed to.

Oxford/AstraZeneca: €1.78
Johnson & Johnson: $8.50
Sanofi/GSK: €7.56
Pfizer/BioNTech: €12
CureVac: €10
Moderna: $18

USA paying $4 for the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, but $15 for Moderna.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/18/belgian-minister-accidentally-tweets-eus-covid-vaccine-price-list

ACitizenErased

That 1.78 for Oxford's vaccine is unreal. The majority of people will be getting that one by the looks.

Cork2021

Looks like vaccine no 2 for the UK before year Is out!!

https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/1340039267171639297?s=21

Doc07

Marhay70 wrote: »

But did it have any beneficial effect?

Yes but the numbers who had Covid were small. The vaccine will likely be recommended for people who have had previous Covid

stephenjmcd

Cork2021 wrote: »

Looks like vaccine no 2 for the UK before year Is out!!

https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/1340039267171639297?s=21

No surprise they're looking to approve it ahead of Moderna, they hadn't even a deal done with them a few weeks ago, scrambled to get one when the efficency data was released.

As per Martin today we're looking Moderna and Oxford/AZ in January

Azatadine

Is this a concern in terms of vaccines (or just scaremongering)?

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1340055216239030274?s=19

Goldengirl

Doc07 wrote: »

Yes but the numbers who had Covid were small. The vaccine will likely be recommended for people who have had previous Covid

And no guarantee of sustained immunity regardless of previous infection ( sorry Necro) so all should get it .

stephenjmcd

Azatadine wrote: »

Is this a concern in terms of vaccines (or just scaremongering)?

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1340055216239030274?s=19

Multiple mutains have been reported and this one isn't that new. The UK wasn't the first to report it

https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1338535621636333569?s=19

Azatadine

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Multiple mutains have been reported and this one isn't that new. The UK wasn't the first to report it

https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1338535621636333569?s=19

Thanks. The fact that the new strain had mutations in the spike concerned me.

Goldengirl

Azatadine wrote: »

Thanks. The fact that the new strain had mutations in the spike concerned me.

From reading of that article sounds like a more virulent strain , even in younger people.
Let's hope it doesn't turn up here too soon.

stephenjmcd

Azatadine wrote: »

Thanks. The fact that the new strain had mutations in the spike concerned me.

Yeah can see how it would cause concern to people. See tweet below with link to BMJ. Vaccines aren't just targeting one area of spike, if they were then it would be a concern.

https://twitter.com/RolandBakerIII/status/1340054618445737984?s=19

hmmm

Azatadine wrote: »

Thanks. The fact that the new strain had mutations in the spike concerned me.

A UK scientist quoted this week said they had seen around 4,000 spike mutations already. We just haven't heard about the previous 3,998.

Great news on the Oxford vaccine if it's to be approved. Themselves and J&J are the ones that have the production capacity to possibly get out of this by Summer.

stephenjmcd

hmmm wrote: »

A UK scientist quoted this week said they had seen around 4,000 spike mutations already. We just haven't heard about the previous 3,998.

Great news on the Oxford vaccine if it's to be approved. Themselves and J&J are the ones that have the production capacity to possibly get out of this by Summer.

On that heres a good thread with paper attached, 12,706 mutations.
"We developed a framework to analyse the contribution of #SARSCoV2 mutations to the virus' transmissibility. We applied it to nearly 50k genomes and we found none (zero, zilch, nada) that increases transmission"

https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1331669107062747137?s=19

Denny61

Its not looking good..these mutations are developing rapidly..and one vaccine is only enough to deal with a strain ..full stop ..the full force of whats waiting for is isn't too far away ..god help us all....scientists will not tell us the truth as economies will fall...be prepared..and pray

stephenjmcd

Denny61 wrote: »

Its not looking good..these mutations are developing rapidly..and one vaccine is only enough to deal with a strain ..full stop ..the full force of whats waiting for is isn't too far away ..god help us all....scientists will not tell us the truth as economies will fall...be prepared..and pray

So much wrong with this post not even worth a dignified reply

Sconsey

Denny61 wrote: »

Its not looking good..these mutations are developing rapidly..and one vaccine is only enough to deal with a strain ..full stop ..the full force of whats waiting for is isn't too far away ..god help us all....scientists will not tell us the truth as economies will fall...be prepared..and pray

How much wrong can you get in single short post? See above for the answer.

Azatadine

Denny61 wrote: »

Its not looking good..these mutations are developing rapidly..and one vaccine is only enough to deal with a strain ..full stop ..the full force of whats waiting for is isn't too far away ..god help us all....scientists will not tell us the truth as economies will fall...be prepared..and pray

I was hesitant to ask about the spike mutation for exactly this reason.....people jump on genuine questions and run with it like its doomsday......

See posts above explaining why this is not a huge concern.

Hmmzis

Azatadine wrote: »

Thanks. The fact that the new strain had mutations in the spike concerned me.

The 501 site appears to be not among the conserved ones and the substitution is synonymous, so no expected change to the protein structure. Some mouse studies have found no change in antibody affinity with that change (as would be expected). The deletions in the NTD are more interesting as they appear to shorten a small loop of amino acids on the edge of the NTD. That could impact antibody binding for that site, if it is part of a neutralizing site (I don't know of it is).

This is the reason our antibodies undergo affinity maturation in germinal centers so that single point mutations and trivial deletions can't so easily escape them. In addition to creating lots of them for all the possible sites on the presented antigen surface.

As to regards T cells this would be close to irrelevant. They recognize much larger epitopes and can tolerate quite a bit of point mutations and deletions before they don't bind anynore.

Goldengirl

Hmmzis wrote: »

The 501 site appears to be not among the conserved ones and the substitution is synonymous, so no expected change to the protein structure. Some mouse studies have found no change in antibody affinity with that change (as would be expected). The deletions in the NTD are more interesting as they appear to shorten a small loop of amino acids on the edge of the NTD. That could impact antibody binding for that site, if it is part of a neutralizing site (I don't know of it is).

This is the reason our antibodies undergo affinity maturation in germinal centers so that single point mutations and trivial deletions can't so easily escape them. In addition to creating lots of them for all the possible sites on the presented antigen surface.

As to regards T cells this would be close to irrelevant. They recognize much larger epitopes and can tolerate quite a bit of point mutations a5nd deletions before they don't bind anynore.

I don't understand most of that but love the way you talk
Last paragraph I do get and that is good news, thankyou .

Van.Bosch

Denny61 wrote: »

Its not looking good..these mutations are developing rapidly..and one vaccine is only enough to deal with a strain ..full stop ..the full force of whats waiting for is isn't too far away ..god help us all....scientists will not tell us the truth as economies will fall...be prepared..and pray

If we take your theory as correct, the mutations are developing rapidly so the vaccine is only good against one strain. Yet scientists would give up on science to protect the economy???

Also, why would you pray, if you believe in God, then this is the work of god, so it’s what God wants?

Deeper Blue

Denny61 wrote: »

Its not looking good..these mutations are developing rapidly..and one vaccine is only enough to deal with a strain ..full stop ..the full force of whats waiting for is isn't too far away ..god help us all....scientists will not tell us the truth as economies will fall...be prepared..and pray

I've always wondered if people that post drivel like the above sit at home chuckling to themselves after writing it. What exactly do they get out of it? I find it sad tbh

ACitizenErased

Moderna approved in the US just now

markodaly

"General Population in Ireland will not get Vaccine till August, says MM" as per the Irish Examiner

Goodbye summer 2021 so, if that is the case.

schmoo2k

markodaly wrote: »

"General Population in Ireland will not get Vaccine till August, says MM" as per the Irish Examiner

Goodbye summer 2021 so, if that is the case.

Why? The at risk groups will have been vaccinated by then (the minority) and we saw last year that the infection rates drop during the summer anyway.

Further - once the at risk folks are vaccinated, then the Covid hospital admissions will be insignificant.

nobita88

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Wanderer78

schmoo2k wrote:

Further - once the at risk folks are vaccinated, then the Covid hospital admissions will be insignificant.

So hospital admissions will be done for the Craic?

funnydoggy

Wanderer78 wrote: »

So hospital admissions will be done for the Craic?

That's not what the OP meant.