COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Micky 32

Jaysus that Lorraine Nolan ever smile? Must be fun at xmas in her house. Doesn’t seem too happy about the upcoming vaccines either. Do these people just revell in doom and gloom or what.

AutoTuning

namloc1980 wrote: »

Sure but it undermines the whole idea of the EU-wide procurement process. To be honest our government should be out there doing the same thing as Germany. No point in being left behind.

That's the problem. If you end up with say France doing a deal with Sanofi or other companies, Sweden perhaps demanding easier access to the AstraZenica vaccine and so on.

Or, you get countries just cutting deals with large amounts of money up front, the result will be overall higher prices in Europe and serious damage to trust in EU institutions.

Doc07

Seweryn wrote: »

"The purpose of this thread is baked into the title - COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures".

The link shows post vac. testing results. However, if Moderators believe this is against the rules, please feel free to remove my post.

The doc you shared is US data not UK.
The 2.8 % side effects with impact you equated to ‘100,000’ becoming ill here if we vaccinated is nonsense.
There will always be side effects in any mass vaccination campaign, some rare more serious ones but most of them are mild and even most of those reported as serious relate to a day off work or college etc.

Water John

Micky 32 wrote: »

Jaysus that Lorraine Nolan ever smile? Must be fun at xmas in her house. Doesn’t seem too happy about the upcoming vaccines either. Do these people just revell in doom and gloom or what.

Are you not concerned that the three lads don't smile either?

AutoTuning

AutoTuning wrote: »

Better again, here's an open article

"Germany Looks Beyond EU Deal to Secure Covid Vaccine Doses
Germany is conducting direct negotiations with domestic Covid-19 vaccine developers to obtain more doses than would be allocated through the shared European Union plan, Health Minister Jens Spahn said.
...
The country is in talks with BioNTech SE, Pfizer Inc.’s partner on the first vaccine approved in a Western country against the virus, as well as CureVac NV and IDT Biologika GmbH, Spahn said Wednesday. All three German companies received funding through a government program to support Covid vaccine development."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-02/germany-seeks-covid-vaccine-doses-beyond-eu-deal-allocation

There's a bit of disquiet in Germany about the EU procurement process, slow to conclude deals and turned down an early option for 500m doses of Pfizer as didn't want it to look like favoring a German option over the French one (Sanofi). The 100m option for extra Pfizer doses will be executed but won't be available til July 2021.

ACitizenErased

Micky 32 wrote: »

Jaysus that Lorraine Nolan ever smile? Must be fun at xmas in her house. Doesn’t seem too happy about the upcoming vaccines either. Do these people just revell in doom and gloom or what.

They seem intent on downplaying the vaccine as much as possible, it really is a bizarre mindset/tactic.

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

They seem intent on downplaying the vaccine as much as possible, it really is a bizarre mindset/tactic.

Really is strange. Its way down the list on the likes of rte now as well. Strange for a country that's about to get its first set of vaccines

Micky 32

Water John wrote: »

Are you not concerned that the three lads don't smile either?

I gave up on them long ago

antiskeptic

Doc07 wrote: »

The doc you shared is US data not UK.
The 2.8 % side effects with impact you equated to ‘100,000’ becoming ill here if we vaccinated is nonsense.
There will always be side effects in any mass vaccination campaign, some rare more serious ones but most of them are mild and even most of those reported as serious relate to a day off work or college etc.

I think many folk would be as concerned about long term consequence (which are much harder to pin on a particular vaccine) as they are about shorter term affects. Mercury and aluminium adjuvants would be the kind of thing that would have anything thinking person at least consider before deciding to have them injected into their bodies.

Remember those aluminium saucepans that were once so common? Scratched to bits from scraping scrambled eggs off of the bottom of them with a steel spoon. Yummy!

You don't really see them around much anymore.

hmmm

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a bit of disquiet in Germany about the EU procurement process, slow to conclude deals and turned down an early option for 500m doses of Pfizer as didn't want it to look like favoring a German option over the French one (Sanofi). The 100m option for extra Pfizer doses will be executed but won't be available til July 2021.

Is this based on reports like the Spiegel article?

I thought that article was a bit captain hindsight. No-one believed the mRNA vaccines would get the spectacular results they did, and they had a high risk of failure, so blaming the EU for not pre-purchasing hundreds of millions of doses I thought was a bit unfair. We could be sitting here with a couple of billion committed to vaccines which no-one really wanted.

The EU took big bets on Sanofi & GSK, which made lots of sense as they looked like a banker with decades of vaccine experience, and they screwed up. They also took a big bet on Astra Zeneca/Oxford, which was new technology but which looked more solid than the mRNA stuff. That bet will still pay off in January hopefully. And another big bet with J&J because, well, they're J&J and know what they're doing.

Where the Americans seem to be doing better on their Operation Warp Speed is that they are providing logistical help to the manufacturers. If Pfizer says they're short on glass vials, the US military will go get them. Europe is lacking this at the moment, and I don't think the EU has the power - individual countries will have to do this.

plodder

antiskeptic wrote: »

I think many folk would be as concerned about long term consequence (which are much harder to pin on a particular vaccine) as they are about shorter term affects. Mercury and aluminium adjuvants would be the kind of thing that would have anything thinking person at least consider before deciding to have them injected into their bodies.

Remember those aluminium saucepans that were once so common? Scratched to bits from scraping scrambled eggs off of the bottom of them with a steel spoon. Yummy!

You don't really see them around much anymore.

Neither the Pfizer nor the Moderna vaccines have mercury or aluminium in them. Don't know about the others.

Necro

antiskeptic wrote: »

I think many folk would be as concerned about long term consequence (which are much harder to pin on a particular vaccine) as they are about shorter term affects. Mercury and aluminium adjuvants would be the kind of thing that would have anything thinking person at least consider before deciding to have them injected into their bodies.

Remember those aluminium saucepans that were once so common? Scratched to bits from scraping scrambled eggs off of the bottom of them with a steel spoon. Yummy!

You don't really see them around much anymore.

Mod:

Please read the OP before posting again and stay on topic.

I'm not posting any more warnings in relation to this.

afatbollix

Uk has vaccinated 500k so far.

That is a fantastic amount in 2 weeks!

We may give out about the Brits but fair play.

namloc1980

afatbollix wrote: »

Uk has vaccinated 500k so far.

That is a fantastic amount in 2 weeks!

We may give out about the Brits but fair play.

EU hasn't covered itself in glory with this vaccine approval and rollout. US and UK approved earlier and are rolling out large scale vaccinations already. Meanwhile we got approval today and looking at tiny numbers vaccinated over the next couple of weeks. EU bureaucracy hard at work.

hmmm

Good to see. I think we'll see a far more active US response from inauguration day (anything would be better than the current response).

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1341122566174384128

MerlinSouthDub

I would have expected final readout from the AstraZeneca trial by now. Would be good if efficacy had crept upwards since the interim data.

J & J vaccine should read out very soon too, given how high infection rates are in the US.

landofthetree

https://mobile.twitter.com/Coronavirusgoo1/status/1340046698505244680


200,000 to be vaccinated a day in the UK by next week.

Oxford vaccine approval very soon (latest by 29th Dec).

Millions of people to be vaccinated a week by January.

AdamD

landofthetree wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/Coronavirusgoo1/status/1340046698505244680


200,000 to be vaccinated a day in the UK by next week.

Oxford vaccine approval very soon (latest by 29th Dec).

Millions of people to be vaccinated a week by January.

They may have bungled up in other areas but they're going to be miles ahead in terms of vaccinating their population.

Gile_na_gile

namloc1980 wrote: »

EU hasn't covered itself in glory with this vaccine approval and rollout. US and UK approved earlier and are rolling out large scale vaccinations already. Meanwhile we got approval today and looking at tiny numbers vaccinated over the next couple of weeks. EU bureaucracy hard at work.

Yes, too slow, and now we may fall well behind US and UK. We would be waiting another week with our amazing solidarity were it not for pressure from Germany and Spain. That said, the joint procurement is a good thing.

ixoy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Really is strange. Its way down the list on the likes of rte now as well. Strange for a country that's about to get its first set of vaccines

Bugged me earlier. In big capitals is "Third Wave", "Cases above 700" and, buried more, is the fact we've now the greenlight to begin stopping this damn thing.

namloc1980

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Yes, too slow, and now we may fall well behind US and UK. We would be waiting another week with our amazing solidarity were it not for pressure from Germany and Spain. That said, the joint procurement is a good thing.

Germany has gone outside the EU procurement process and is negotiating to order doses directly for itself because the EU wide process is just too slow and won't deliver enough vaccine quickly.

Professor Moriarty

namloc1980 wrote: »

Germany has gone outside the EU procurement process and is negotiating to order doses directly for itself because the EU wide process is just too slow and won't deliver enough vaccine quickly.

That's surprising. Would you have a link to that please?

dominatinMC

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Really is strange. Its way down the list on the likes of rte now as well. Strange for a country that's about to get its first set of vaccines

Nothing strange about it at all. As we've all learned during this pandemic, the primary agenda of RTE is not to inform or educate, but to scare and frighten the populace. Now maybe a behavioural scientists can comment on the effectiveness of this approach but in my opinion, all it does is breed resentment of the perpetrator.

namloc1980

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's surprising. Would you have a link to that please?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-02/germany-seeks-covid-vaccine-doses-beyond-eu-deal-allocation

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-planning-disaster-germany-and-europe-could-fall-short-on-vaccine-supplies-a-3db4702d-ae23-4e85-85b7-20145a898abd-amp

The EU procurement process has been a bit a shambles so far. Too slow and too bureaucratic.

Gile_na_gile

namloc1980 wrote: »

The EU procurement process has been a bit a shambles so far. Too slow and too bureaucratic.

Bit of an exaggerated story, rehashed since early Dec, but there is the danger there that we may have a slow lane of Health Ministers doing SFA and standing in for photo ops and others like Spahn who are knocking heads and getting things done. Would like to hear what Donnelly says on the matter, and it is one of those situations where we would generally club in with the UK for support on a common position pre-Brexit.


This is why the 'not a silver bullet' tag lines and anti-vac nonsense talk are a waste of airspace if we are not discussing how much production capacity is there and what are WE doing do improve it. Sitting on ones hands and calling on or waiting on 'Brussels' is the definition of burocracy.


I read the Spiegel piece and feel that frustration as they state it, watching the US vaccinate and ramp up while we are making declarations about how amazing it is to get authorisation but no-one outside of the EU really cares. They are also already vaccinating in the Middle-East. Ireland is a big pharma country too relative to its size and should be making some noise on this.

The HorsesMouth

landofthetree wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/Coronavirusgoo1/status/1340046698505244680


200,000 to be vaccinated a day in the UK by next week.

Oxford vaccine approval very soon (latest by 29th Dec).

Millions of people to be vaccinated a week by January.

If this is the case then this is over in March/April.

namloc1980

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

If this is the case then this is over in March/April.

I think your being extremely optimistic saying this will be all over by March or April. It takes 28 days for the vaccines to be fully effective after the first dose and we're only getting very small numbers of doses initially. It'll be a good while yet before we see widespread vaccination to even come close to this being over.

Dickie10

thats the Uk ireland will be bungling around in June with 100k vaccinated. 2021 is going full restrictions as well. Vaccine was passed today why not have been a step ahead and in the hope it was passed and have lorries rolling at 5 am with vaccine hitting gps and chemist by 8am and start vaccinating 12 hr a day 8-8, 7 days a week , take off xmas day only . keep going 12 hrs /day , 7 days a week, how many would we get through

namloc1980

Dickie10 wrote: »

thats the Uk ireland will be bungling around in June with 100k vaccinated. 2021 is going full restrictions as well. Vaccine was passed today why not have been a step ahead and in the hope it was passed and have lorries rolling at 5 am with vaccine hitting gps and chemist by 8am and start vaccinating 12 hr a day 8-8, 7 days a week , take off xmas day only . keep going 12 hrs /day , 7 days a week, how many would we get through

We only have 9,750 doses secured at the moment which will arrive in the next week. It'll be weeks before we have any decent amount of vaccine. The EU procurement process for the vaccine has been a bit of a shambles. It'll take weeks/months to ramp up.

Professor Moriarty

namloc1980 wrote: »

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-02/germany-seeks-covid-vaccine-doses-beyond-eu-deal-allocation

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-planning-disaster-germany-and-europe-could-fall-short-on-vaccine-supplies-a-3db4702d-ae23-4e85-85b7-20145a898abd-amp

The EU procurement process has been a bit a shambles so far. Too slow and too bureaucratic.

Thanks, but it seems as if Germany hasn't actually gone out on its own on this.