Is anyone paying tax?

wonski

It's done all over the world.

For ages.

Italy has been fighting it with revenue inspectors checking receipts. I doubt they will ever get that under control.

They will catch few dodging 5k a year and miss the ones on top dodging millions.


The easiest way was to heavily tax so called high earners (because at 50k a year you are considered "high earner" lol) so they can sit down and see 30-40% of your salary landing in the Revenue account every month. Easy money.

beauf

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

This is the theory behind it, but the reality is not the case.
you've to meet certain criteria before you're even eligible to tender, so naturally that eliminates a lot of smaller operators who wouldn't be up to speed with the e-tender process, and you can be sure that anyone who does tender is pumping up the costs because the state is footing the bill.

My wife went to regional management about it - she couldn't in good conscience, give €800 to move two couches - an hours work for 2 men and a van, when that would have paid a weeks wages for a full time worker with a degree. She was met with a shrug.

The public sector is riddled with this kind of craic, and no ones held accountable. At least in the private sector, its not coming out of the public purse.

It is the reality for the majority I've seen. You get a small % that gets manipulated, and a certain amount of fraud. But in general it works. It's just more expensive as is anything that's regulated.

beauf

screamer wrote: »

Cash work is not just about tax avoidance. You’d be shocked to know the number of people who get in trades to do something and think it’s fine to haggle with them over the price at the end cause they spent too much on something during the work, or worse, never pay them. It’s nigh on impossible to get paid, the trades people have no recourse and can’t enter the property and remove work. Cheques take time to clear, and people won’t pay upfront, it’s a catch 22.

Works both ways. People not paying but also trades doing a runner or botched work.

sbsquarepants

sdanseo wrote: »

That's short term gain for long term pain and hurts everyone in the long run.

It's not all about this - the tax system needs dramatic reform and I won't begrudge you the attitude. But it doesn't help. And it's rampant.

I'm like most people i suspect - annoyed at constant examples of tax payers money being flung around like confetti, so when the (rare enough) opportunity to get something back arrives, i'm perfectly willing and happy to take it.

The public service in this country would conspire to píss away any amount of money that was thrown at them, make no mistake about it. And that's not public sector bashing, it's just a stone cold fact, there's no accountability. If i priced up something in work and it ended up costing multiples of my price, you may bet your ass i'd be fired for incompetence. If i bought a machine that wouldn't fit in the building, i'd be fired and so on and so forth.

Anything you can keep for yourself, keep for yourself - unless you're hoarding it away, or sending it abroad, it all goes back into the system eventually anyway, you may as well get as much of the benefit as possible for yourself.

Mr. teddywinkles

thebourke wrote: »

if everybody paid the proper level of tax in this country...maybe we could have money for the things we need...like proper infrastructure..hospitals.. water supply...flooding defences...environment.etc..etc....

Like the money pit that is the new children's hospital.

GarIT

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'm like most people i suspect - annoyed at constant examples of tax payers money being flung around like confetti, so when the (rare enough) opportunity to get something back arrives, i'm perfectly willing and happy to take it.

The public service in this country would conspire to píss away any amount of money that was thrown at them, make no mistake about it. And that's not public sector bashing, it's just a stone cold fact, there's no accountability. If i priced up something in work and it ended up costing multiples of my price, you may bet your ass i'd be fired for incompetence. If i bought a machine that wouldn't fit in the building, i'd be fired and so on and so forth.

Anything you can keep for yourself, keep for yourself - unless you're hoarding it away, or sending it abroad, it all goes back into the system eventually anyway, you may as well get as much of the benefit as possible for yourself.

There's quite a lot of accountability. A paper trail for everything. For every decision all the bids made and the reasons a certain bid were selected are recorded.

Often there can be one bid made on a tendering process and the rules require it to be accepted if it fits the criteria set out.

We could abandon the tendering process but then we have individual civil service pricing up things and will be accused whether rightly or wrongly or giving jobs to their mates and/or brown envelopes.

Nobody in the civil service is pricing up a job. They produce a document of the job needing to be done. Publish it online and private companies bid on it.

ElJeffe

Augeo wrote: »

Over the 12 years how much rent did you pay?
And what were you earning as you were working your ass off?

I drove coaches and trucks all over Europe. What i earn is my business.

You pay a percentage weekly of your earnings based on your year ends P60. Was it less than the average rent for the area i lived in yes but high rents aren't my problem that's a result of successive governments failings in regards house/apartment building. I paid a fair share of my wages to provide a roof over my families head and im glad for the social housing made available to us.

Stone Deaf 4evr

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'm like most people i suspect - annoyed at constant examples of tax payers money being flung around like confetti, so when the (rare enough) opportunity to get something back arrives, i'm perfectly willing and happy to take it.

The public service in this country would conspire to píss away any amount of money that was thrown at them, make no mistake about it. And that's not public sector bashing, it's just a stone cold fact, there's no accountability. If i priced up something in work and it ended up costing multiples of my price, you may bet your ass i'd be fired for incompetence. If i bought a machine that wouldn't fit in the building, i'd be fired and so on and so forth.

Anything you can keep for yourself, keep for yourself - unless you're hoarding it away, or sending it abroad, it all goes back into the system eventually anyway, you may as well get as much of the benefit as possible for yourself.

The one thing that absolutley curdles my sh1t in this country, is that, as soon as anything is highlighted in the media or otherwise, the response is to set up an 'action group' or an 'investigative committee' - its f@cking nonsense, nothing ever gets sorted or improved, just more waffle until the public mindset drifts on to the next catastrophe.

GarIT

ElJeffe wrote: »

I drove coaches and trucks all over Europe. What i earn is my business.

You pay a percentage weekly of your earnings based on your year ends P60. Was it less than the average rent for the area i lived in yes but high rents aren't my problem that's a result of successive governments failings in regards house/apartment building. I paid a fair share of my wages to provide a roof over my families head and im glad for the social housing made available to us.

If the price of rent wasn't the problem how is it fair other people are paying most of your rent for you?

Allinall

Allinall wrote: »

Knowingly facilitating tax evasion is as bad as tax evasion itself.

"knowingly facilitating tax evasion" by paying legal tender (cash) is as bad as tax evasion itself?

Of course it's not.

ElJeffe

GarIT wrote: »

I wish I had that luxury. In a similar situation but had to move back in with parents as I couldn't afford 60-70% of my net income going on rent.

I'm not against social housing but the sharp divide in the quality of life between someone just over and someone just under the threshold is depressing.

If I earned €5k less I'd be €10-15k better off a year but that would destroy my future career prospects.

The problem with social housing isn't social housing, it's the squeezed middle and the people just above the thresholds.

And sure it's not free but you're no worse off than I am and you're paying at most 1/4 of what I'd be paying.

Sorry to hear that. It's a governance issue that is at the heart of the problem. Lack of affordable housing and rent has been an issue for decades now going back to the 90's. It's no more your fault than it is those in social housing.

Antares35

GarIT wrote: »

There's quite a lot of accountability. A paper trail for everything. For every decision all the bids made and the reasons a certain bid were selected are recorded.

Often there can be one bid made on a tendering process and the rules require it to be accepted if it fits the criteria set out.

We could abandon the tendering process but then we have individual civil service pricing up things and will be accused whether rightly or wrongly or giving jobs to their mates and/or brown envelopes.

Nobody in the civil service is pricing up a job. They produce a document of the job needing to be done. Publish it online and private companies bid on it.

How come there have been so many fúck ups then?

GarIT

ElJeffe wrote: »

Sorry to hear that. It's a governance issue that is at the heart of the problem. Lack of affordable housing and rent has been an issue for decades now going back to the 90's. It's no more your fault than it is those in social housing.

I do think there is some person responsibility on those who can't afford to house of feed themselves and then have kids anyway. Or those who don't make a genuine attempt to upskill and/or find work.

ElJeffe

GarIT wrote: »

If the price of rent wasn't the problem how is it fair other people are paying most of your rent for you?

Nobody paid my rent except me. If you want to go down the "hard pressed PAYE worker" route then maybe you should take into consideration im one of those tax payers.

Antares35

ElJeffe wrote: »

I drove coaches and trucks all over Europe. What i earn is my business.

You pay a percentage weekly of your earnings based on your year ends P60. Was it less than the average rent for the area i lived in yes but high rents aren't my problem that's a result of successive governments failings in regards house/apartment building. I paid a fair share of my wages to provide a roof over my families head and im glad for the social housing made available to us.

Other workers also pay a fair share of their wages to provide a roof over other families heads...

John Doe1

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Fúck the moralising - if i can get the work done cheaper for cash, i'm fine with that!

Im alright Jack

Antares35

ElJeffe wrote: »

Nobody paid my rent except me. If you want to go down the "hard pressed PAYE worker" route then maybe you should take into consideration im one of those tax payers.

If you weren't paying the market rent then it is a statement of fact that someone other than you was paying your rent, indirectly or otherwise.

GarIT

Antares35 wrote: »

How come there have been so many fúck ups then?

As in the cost of the hospital? People manipulate the system. Stuff like saying they can build a hospital for X, and managing to leave certain bits out of the contract on purpose and then coming back and billing for them later.

GarIT

ElJeffe wrote: »

Nobody paid my rent except me. If you want to go down the "hard pressed PAYE worker" route then maybe you should take into consideration im one of those tax payers.

Houses aren't free. If you weren't paying market rates then someone else was making up the difference.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Antares35 wrote: »

How come there have been so many fúck ups then?

because the investigative committee does their thing, finds the root of the problem and nothing happens, no one gets fired, they resign with full pensions and no one goes to jail.

Its mad, it seems like almost daily, there are stories in the papers about huge awards being made in the courts for medical malpractice, but you don't ever hear of any reprecussions for the teams involved.

John Doe1

All these tax dodgers who think they are rebels on here showing the government whose boss

In reality they are stealing money from a the pooled money pot of 2 million tax payers and trying to justify it to themselves.

Antares35

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

because the investigative committee does their thing, finds the root of the problem and nothing happens, no one gets fired, they resign with full pensions and no one goes to jail.

Its mad, it seems like almost daily, there are stories in the papers about huge awards being made in the courts for medical malpractice, but you don't ever hear of any reprecussions for the teams involved.

I worked in the PS for a couple of years. What always amazed me was when someone went on mat leave, her replacement would be brought in then when she came back, the replacement would be kept and a job "found" for him/ her. Amazing!

ElJeffe

GarIT wrote: »

I do think there is some person responsibility on those who can't afford to house of feed themselves and then have kids anyway. Or those who don't make a genuine attempt to upskill and/or find work.

Maybe people should stop having kids altogether because successive governments haven't addressed the high rent/lack of affordable housing issue?

We could just have everyone living in those shoe box multi use yokes FG have been promoting the building of the last few years and not have kids at all.

We've two kids btw and then i got the snip as it's all we could afford.

GarIT

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

because the investigative committee does their thing, finds the root of the problem and nothing happens, no one gets fired, they resign with full pensions and no one goes to jail.

Its mad, it seems like almost daily, there are stories in the papers about huge awards being made in the courts for medical malpractice, but you don't ever hear of any reprecussions for the teams involved.

I don't think that would be the type of thing they would publish whether it happens or not.

Usually and often in situations like that people face a salary reduction. Often they can't be fired legally, some companies don't follow the laws but the state has to.

ElJeffe

ElJeffe wrote: »

I drove coaches and trucks all over Europe. What i earn is my business.

You pay a percentage weekly of your earnings based on your year ends P60. Was it less than the average rent for the area i lived in yes but high rents aren't my problem that's a result of successive governments failings in regards house/apartment building. I paid a fair share of my wages to provide a roof over my families head and im glad for the social housing made available to us.

Ah yes ............ folk never detail the figures when asked. Yet sh1te on about paying their share etc.

ElJeffe wrote: »

Nobody paid my rent except me. If you want to go down the "hard pressed PAYE worker" route then maybe you should take into consideration im one of those tax payers.

Pay a fiver in, but get a tenner back sort of payer

Antares35

ElJeffe wrote: »

Maybe people should stop having kids altogether because successive governments haven't addressed the high rent/lack of affordable housing issue?

We could just have everyone living in those shoe box multi use yokes FG have been promoting the building of the last few years.

We've two kids btw and then i got the snip as it's all we could afford.

People should stop having kids if they can't afford to actually rear them, irrespective of any housing issues which exist.

ElJeffe

GarIT wrote: »

Houses aren't free. If you weren't paying market rates then someone else was making up the difference.

I never said they where free. I'm a PAYE worker, it comes out of my wages. You are arguing my point for me.

ELM327

GarIT wrote: »

Houses aren't free. If you weren't paying market rates then someone else was making up the difference.

I also love how he claims to be a hard pressed PAYE worker yet is actually a net gainer from the tax system.

GarIT

Antares35 wrote: »

I worked in the PS for a couple of years. What always amazed me was when someone went on mat leave, her replacement would be brought in then when she came back, the replacement would be kept and a job "found" for him/ her. Amazing!

Yeah it's amazing that in an organisation of 10s of thousands of employees there might be a few jobs going.

Antares35

Augeo wrote: »

Ah yes ............ folk never detail the figures when asked. Yet sh1te on about paying their share etc.

Happens all the time. Someone will say "92 percent of the market rent is paid by the LA, and 8 percent is paid by the tenant" then a tenant or former tenant will come on and dispute that, but refuse to divulge what percentage they actually pay/ paid.