Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Harika

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This was posted in the race thread but responding here because i think it will be an ongoing issue over the next batch of races.

They're sayin the cur to Lewis tyre was also on the rear left - the same as Max and Lance. And he said the rear left isn't the most stressed tyres on the car around the circuit. That suggests it was more likely a stationary object cutting the tyres rather free floating debris which could cut any tyre.

We likely won't know what the story was but they're likely to err on the side of making the tyres harder from here on. There were a spate of tyre failures a few years ago (they teams were switching left and right tyres for the camber difference I think) and they responded by making the tyres a bit harder.

Sky said they had made the tyres softer for this race this year than last year so that might have contributed. In any case, they don't need the reputational risk of another fluke tyre failure in the coming races, so they will likely try to make the tyres a bit harder.

Problem with this is, that the tyres in Baku that failed were the medium tires or hardness 3 on a scale between 1 and 5.
The issue didn´t happen on the 1s or 2s only on the hardest of the available compounds.

Harika

On the Bottas struggle.
Funny how the tides turn. Two races ago, he did everything perfect for Mercedes. Monaco and Baku now nowhere to be seen. As in Imola.
He won´t be replaced mid season, that´s for sure.
Next year Mercedes might want to look into their talent pool and see if they want to move one of their juniors up.
Perez on the on the hand came alive

Frank Bullitt

Harika wrote: »

On the Bottas struggle.
Funny how the tides turn. Two races ago, he did everything perfect for Mercedes. Monaco and Baku now nowhere to be seen. As in Imola.
He won´t be replaced mid season, that´s for sure.
Next year Mercedes might want to look into their talent pool and see if they want to move one of their juniors up.
Perez on the on the hand came alive

Tides have turned now for Merc in that regard, they used to have him as a rear gunner. But performance wise, he isn't there, and I can only imagine his morale is shot as well, so that is a double whammy.

Perez, as you rightly point out, has come alive at the right time for RB. He was literally the perfect wingman yesterday and sealed up the table for RB when they needed him. I hope they give him another year at the team, he is proving to be a great signing.

El_Duderino 09

Harika wrote: »

Problem with this is, that the tyres in Baku that failed were the medium tires or hardness 3 on a scale between 1 and 5.
The issue didn´t happen on the 1s or 2s only on the hardest of the available compounds.

That's true. They did happen when they tyres were a similar age towards the end of their stints suggesting tyre failure.

I'd still think the fact that it happened on the same tyre, which isn't the tyre that experiences the most stress, suggests it was cuts from something like a kerb, but we'll have to wait and see if we ever find out.

El_Duderino 09

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

Tides have turned now for Merc in that regard, they used to have him as a rear gunner. But performance wise, he isn't there, and I can only imagine his morale is shot as well, so that is a double whammy.

Perez, as you rightly point out, has come alive at the right time for RB. He was literally the perfect wingman yesterday and sealed up the table for RB when they needed him. I hope they give him another year at the team, he is proving to be a great signing.

Far too early to say he's a great signing. He had some poor races at the start and 2 good weekends. We can only wait and see how it goes. He looks to have settled in better than the last 2 RB drivers, that's for sure. Neither of them looked to be able to be place behind Max in quali and the race as Perez did this weekend

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Far too early to say he's a great signing. He had some poor races at the start and 2 good weekends. We can only wait and see how it goes. He looks to have settled in better than the last 2 RB drivers, that's for sure. Neither of them looked to be able to be place behind Max in quali and the race as Perez did this weekend

You are right, might be early but I think the signs are good so far.

MadYaker

Perez was asked by a journo post race if he feels he's fully gotten to grips with the car now and he said he thought there was more pace to find but he probably would have said that anyway.

Nonoperational

I think he’s a class act Perez. Had a great week this week and hopefully more to come.

I read that's the first time since America 2012 that Merc got no points in a race. Insane reliability.

Glico Man

Deleted User wrote: »

I read that's the first time since America 2012 that Merc got no points in a race. Insane reliability.

Surely at least the Spanish GP 2016 when Rosberg and Hamilton took each other out?

TheQ_Man

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I read that's the first time since America 2012 that Merc got no points in a race. Insane reliability.

Austria 2018 was the last time (Double retirement). Maybe 2012 was when the 2 Merc’s last finished outside the points having done the full race?

quokula

Harika wrote: »

On the Bottas struggle.
Funny how the tides turn. Two races ago, he did everything perfect for Mercedes. Monaco and Baku now nowhere to be seen. As in Imola.
He won´t be replaced mid season, that´s for sure.
Next year Mercedes might want to look into their talent pool and see if they want to move one of their juniors up.
Perez on the on the hand came alive

I wouldn’t say it’s entirely accurate to say Bottas was nowhere in Monaco and Baku. In Monaco he was very comfortably the better Mercedes driver and he easily outclassed Hamilton, only for the team to cost him at the pit stop. At Baku he was slow of course, but he did actually beat Hamilton again by making fewer mistakes.

He was completely compromised at Baku by the team deciding to fit a barn door to his rear wing to maximise the tow he would give Lewis in qualifying, without him getting to do a proper qualifying run of his own after his tow-truck lap.

Obviously he’s a poor driver as he has been for years, but there’s been some mitigating circumstances for those bad results of late, I don’t think it’s anything out of character compared to previous seasons.

Glico Man

Glico Man wrote: »

Surely at least the Spanish GP 2016 when Rosberg and Hamilton took each other out?

TheQ_Man wrote: »

Austria 2018 was the last time (Double retirement). Maybe 2012 was when the 2 Merc’s last finished outside the points having done the full race?

Could be alright. Didn't have the full ring of truth to it hence me prefacing it. :P May well have said "Both Mercedes finished outside the points" which for the top 4 teams would be very rare I suppose.:o

El_Duderino 09

quokula wrote: »

I wouldn’t say it’s entirely accurate to say Bottas was nowhere in Monaco and Baku. In Monaco he was very comfortably the better Mercedes driver and he easily outclassed Hamilton, only for the team to cost him at the pit stop. At Baku he was slow of course, but he did actually beat Hamilton again by making fewer mistakes.

He was completely compromised at Baku by the team deciding to fit a barn door to his rear wing to maximise the tow he would give Lewis in qualifying, without him getting to do a proper qualifying run of his own after his tow-truck lap.

Obviously he’s a poor driver as he has been for years, but there’s been some mitigating circumstances for those bad results of late, I don’t think it’s anything out of character compared to previous seasons.

Bottas' Monaco drive was absolutely not terrible, as you said. Incredible that Monaco has been misremembered as a terrible race for Bottas after only 2 weeks.

But is that true about his rear wing? Was it really done to maximise Lewis' tow? That pretty shocking treatment for a driver who is notionally on equal status. Couldn't they strip some down force out of the wing or was it an entirely higher downforce wing which they couldn't change after quali?

quokula

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Bottas' Monaco drive was absolutely not terrible, as you said. Incredible that Monaco has been misremembered as a terrible race for Bottas after only 2 weeks.

But is that true about his rear wing? Was it really done to maximise Lewis' tow? That pretty shocking treatment for a driver who is notionally on equal status. Couldn't they strip some down force out of the wing or was it an entirely higher downforce wing which they couldn't change after quali?

They won't admit it of course and the UK media never question Mercedes' "equal treatment", but his wing was visibly much thicker than anyone else's, and it would be a pretty odd decision for Mercedes to go in such a drastically different downforce direction to everyone else, and to only do it with one of their cars.

Simple physics dictates that Bottas' larger wing would give a much stronger tow, and of course the team very blatantly choreographed the positions of the two drivers to maximise that tow in qualifying.

Without the red flag, Valterri might have had an opportunity to do a qualifying lap of his own and started slightly further up, but given that he didn't, and given the wing's effect on straight line speed destroyed his ability to overtake, it's not surprising that he couldn't move forward in the race.

TheQ_Man

Gaoth Laidir

Toto said that this week it was Lewis' turn to choose whether to go out first or second in quali. He chose second, behind Bottas. Apparently it'll be Bottas' choice next time and presumably it was last time too, though I don't remember ever seeing Lewis giving him a tow every second race.

It's more convenient to just bash Bottas again and put it down to being completely his own fault. The same people were notably quiet after he outqualified Lewis in Monaco and Portugal, Abu Dhabi, Sakhir, ...).

El_Duderino 09

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Toto said that this week it was Lewis' turn to choose whether to go out first or second in quali. He chose second, behind Bottas. Apparently it'll be Bottas' choice next time and presumably it was last time too, though I don't remember ever seeing Lewis giving him a tow every second race.

It's more convenient to just bash Bottas again and put it down to being completely his own fault. The same people were notably quiet after he outqualified Lewis in Monaco and Portugal, Abu Dhabi, Sakhir, ...).

The tow probably wouldn't be any advantage in most races (E.g. the last race in Monaco). Finding clear air is the biggest problem in most races. It's rare that the tow is useful. Baku is the race where the tow has clearest advantage. Teams often try it in Monza and sometimes end up ballsing it up.

But i would be very surprised if Hamilton actually sacrifices his quali in Monza to give Bottas a tow. It should be 50:50 but I would bet the house that it will be Botas "turn" to give the tow at any race where it makes a difference.

quokula

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Toto said that this week it was Lewis' turn to choose whether to go out first or second in quali. He chose second, behind Bottas. Apparently it'll be Bottas' choice next time and presumably it was last time too, though I don't remember ever seeing Lewis giving him a tow every second race.

They've been rolling out that line for years. On most tracks the tow makes no difference and they don't follow eachother closely because it just hurts downforce. On the rare tracks where tow has a big effect, such as Baku or Monza, it always coincidentally happens to be Lewis' "turn" that week.

quokula

Love this

Adamocovic

quokula wrote: »

Love this

Just seeing all the drivers congratulating Seb and hearing from them shows how much they respect him.

I won't lie, when he first broke out I thought he was cocky and wasn't the biggest fan, but turned into one as the years went by.

Nice to see him enjoying himself.
Hope last two races weren't just two blips and he can continue to score points this season regularly, rather than fall back to the 11-15th positions.

eviltimeban

Like anyone dominating, it got a bit tiring after a while, and fans began to resent "the finger" every time Vettel won. Remember the 2014 testing, when he was being booed by the spectators, and when the car had problems they cheered?

But everyone likes an underdog, and his experience through the Ferrari mill endeared him to fans again. That and the fact that he is actually a funny and self-deprecating kind of guy. I think many fans would be happy to see "the finger" again.

Above video shows that Mick is a classy guy.

On a related and unrelated note, maybe this is how they'll get rid of Mazepin! https://www.planetf1.com/news/nikita-mazepin-military-service/

flazio

Team Principal Simon Roberts leaving Williams.

https://straighttothegrid.com/simon-roberts-announces-departure-from-williams-team/

Not quite seeing the McLaren esque style recovery from Williams are we?

El_Duderino 09

eviltimeban wrote: »

Like anyone dominating, it got a bit tiring after a while, and fans began to resent "the finger" every time Vettel won. Remember the 2014 testing, when he was being booed by the spectators, and when the car had problems they cheered?

But everyone likes an underdog, and his experience through the Ferrari mill endeared him to fans again. That and the fact that he is actually a funny and self-deprecating kind of guy. I think many fans would be happy to see "the finger" again.

...

Yeah I was always a fan of Seb and I'd say he's one of the drivers who would be good conversation and one of the few you's actually want to hang out with. But I think even his biggest fan had difficulty reconciling "Multi 21" with Seb being a good guy. But, people can do contradictory things. I'd say even the harshest critic of "the finger" would be happy to see it once more given his poor form over the last few years.

El_Duderino 09

flazio wrote: »

Team Principal Simon Roberts leaving Williams.

https://straighttothegrid.com/simon-roberts-announces-departure-from-williams-team/

Not quite seeing the McLaren esque style recovery from Williams are we?

Oh i think any kind of recovery would take time. The team was only taken over at the end of last season so this year's car was already started. Next year is the rule change so I would expect them to focus on next year, not this year.

Something that I overlooked this weekend was that Schumacher finished 13th in Baku so Haas moved ahead of Williams in the championship. They'll be delighted with that given they were pretty clear that they didn't develop the car for this year

BrentMused

Can anyone recommend some good F1 books please?

Mainly I'm looking for something with as much juicy behind the scenes insight as possible :pac:

I recently read Jenson Button's 2017 autobiography. Really enjoyed it especially detailing how he got the Williams drive for his F1 debut and his dealings with Ralf Schumacher, and also his time with Lewis at McLaren, but felt he held a lot back. That's just his character I suppose, he's not the type that will be revealing much.

I've been told Mark Webber's autobiography shares a lot about his battles with Vettel and Red Bull politics?

Dont be at yourself

No Angel, a biography on Bernie, is a great behind-the-scenes read, bringing us right up through the history of involvement in the sport.

Not a book, but the Beyond the Grid podcast series also has some incredible episodes, particularly when they have drivers from the 70s and 80s.

Bigus

Race without end , about early Jordan was good at the time , I don’t know how it’s aged.

Harika

Cannot recommend the Ross brawn book

Lawlesz

BrentMused wrote: »

Can anyone recommend some good F1 books please?

Mainly I'm looking for something with as much juicy behind the scenes insight as possible :pac:

I recently read Jenson Button's 2017 autobiography. Really enjoyed it especially detailing how he got the Williams drive for his F1 debut and his dealings with Ralf Schumacher, and also his time with Lewis at McLaren, but felt he held a lot back. That's just his character I suppose, he's not the type that will be revealing much.

I've been told Mark Webber's autobiography shares a lot about his battles with Vettel and Red Bull politics?

For the behind the scenes stuff, there's a couple of books written by a former Benetton mechanic, I think his name is Steve Machett. His first book was a season diary, I think 1994,and his second was more of a run down on his career.

Another by Mark Priestley, a former McLaren mechanic. It's been a while but I think Machetts was a more serious effort whereas Priestleys contained a lot of after hours stories with Kimi and DC :pac:

Eddie Jordan's one is good too, and probably the best I've read was Damon Hills, think it was called Watching the Wheels, very honest. I had no idea how hard he had to work to get to f1 and then the confidence issues and self doubt he had once he got there. Very honest and actually made me quite like him after 20-something years of indifference to him.