Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

namloc1980

Love this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tvcf_pgBBA

BrentMused

The Russian F1 commentator, Alexey Popov, is pretty close to Bottas and is reporting that he is increasingly feeling like an outcast at Mercedes.

Ignore the imperfect translation as it's translated from a Russian article about Popov stating the below on a podcast:

The wing is not right, the tires cannot warm up, there is no trust in the chassis. He even began to hint that it might be necessary to change the chassis. But Toto said, “No, no. Lewis is faster because he believes more in the car, even if it's weak. "

Here, in general, they began to laugh at Wolf directly. And it’s really very funny that after Monaco, the first thing he said was that Bottas did not get up at the pit stop and therefore the mechanics were chamfering from the nut. Then it turned out that he got up almost better than all the other riders, turned out to be one of the most accurate. But this is not so bad.

When Hamilton missed [ at the restart ], Toto said , “No, no, it's not a mistake. He was forced by Perez, who began to shift towards him. Lewis was forced to hijack the car, so he accidentally pressed the button. " Everyone has already begun to laugh at this.

Everyone is funny, but Bottas is not, because he really feels like an outcast in the team more and more. Whatever he did, it was his fault. If everything goes well, it is, of course, thanks to the team. If it’s bad, it means that Valtteri couldn’t."

El_Duderino 09

BrentMused wrote: »

The Russian F1 commentator, Alexey Popov, is pretty close to Bottas and is reporting that he is increasingly feeling like an outcast at Mercedes.

Ignore the imperfect translation as it's translated from a Russian article about Popov stating the below on a podcast:

That could be a pretty accurate reading of the situation.

Wolff went too far out of his way to pretend Lewis didn't make a mistake on the Baku restart. It was just a small mistake but it contrasted with the way he said Bottas contributed to the wheel nut mistake in Monaco.

If there's that kind of double think going on then it could be a pretty uncomfortable work environment for Bottas.

Frank Bullitt

If you were Bottas, you would have to be looking elsewhere now.

flazio

I thought he might have been top of Aston Martins hit list if it looked like Vettel wouldn't come back next year but things are looking up for him so I reckon he's staying.
Can't see him going to the likes of Sauber-Alfa Romeo or Williams just in order to stay in Formula 1. I wouldn't rule out a move to Formula E. Susie Wolff's Venturi team most likely.

El_Duderino 09

flazio wrote: »

I thought he might have been top of Aston Martins hit list if it looked like Vettel wouldn't come back next year but things are looking up for him so I reckon he's staying.
Can't see him going to the likes of Sauber-Alfa Romeo or Williams just in order to stay in Formula 1. I wouldn't rule out a move to Formula E. Susie Wolff's Venturi team most likely.

I don't pretend to have a clue what he will do (assuming he is replaced next year). He might be tempted to go to Williams as part of the Williams resurgence under the new ownership. They have Mercedes engines which means that if they can get the chassis in order they could make steps forward.

Anywhere he goes would be a step backward. The only way he could look at it as a promotion is to be the explicit no.1 at a smaller team.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don't pretend to have a clue what he will do (assuming he is replaced next year). He might be tempted to go to Williams as part of the Williams resurgence under the new ownership. They have Mercedes engines which means that if they can get the chassis in order they could make steps forward.

Anywhere he goes would be a step backward. The only way he could look at it as a promotion is to be the explicit no.1 at a smaller team.

To him though, if he was treated equally and not thrown under the bus by his boss, it might be a step forward.

eviltimeban

That's the problem though, in Bottas' mind he is equal. He's the only one who can't see that he's not.

El_Duderino 09

eviltimeban wrote: »

That's the problem though, in Bottas' mind he is equal. He's the only one who can't see that he's not.

I really doubt that's true. I'd say he's acutely aware of the situation.

El_Duderino 09

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

To him though, if he was treated equally and not thrown under the bus by his boss, it might be a step forward.

Ah no. Moving to anywhere, from Mercedes, is a step backwards (possible exception of Red Bull this year). He has had the best car (by some margin) for the last few years. Anywhere else would be a step backwards from that situation, particularly when you look at the available seats. He could challenge for wins over the last few years and none of the available seats will afford him that opportunity.

Where are the available seats for next year? Haas, Alfa, Williams, They're all a step back unless you view explicit no.1 status as a promotion.

Vicxas

Im assuming its gonna be some time before we see any feedback on Pirelli's performance last weekend

El_Duderino 09

Vicxas wrote: »

Im assuming its gonna be some time before we see any feedback on Pirelli's performance last weekend

Yeah I'd say you're right, it's unlikely they will ever publicly admit it was all their fault, even if they find out it was all their fault. There's no need for them to publicly admit it anyway. All they need to do is get to the bottom of whatever caused the failures and fix it if i was their own fault, or suggest the solutions if it was a sharp kerb or whatever else.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah no. Moving to anywhere, from Mercedes, is a step backwards (possible exception of Red Bull this year). He has had the best car (by some margin) for the last few years. Anywhere else would be a step backwards from that situation, particularly when you look at the available seats. He could challenge for wins over the last few years and none of the available seats will afford him that opportunity.

Where are the available seats for next year? Haas, Alfa, Williams, They're all a step back unless you view explicit no.1 status as a promotion.

I see what you mean. I agree that any car aside from a Merc or RB is a step back in terms of competitiveness. He could take a shot like Vettel did moving to AM, although Bottas doesn't have high stock like he did.

I would like to see him stick around on the grid, he has speed but he has his wings clipped where he is right now. Williams might work, swap him for Russell. That sounds like the logical move for all parties.

El_Duderino 09

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

I see what you mean. I agree that any car aside from a Merc or RB is a step back in terms of competitiveness. He could take a shot like Vettel did moving to AM, although Bottas doesn't have high stock like he did.

I would like to see him stick around on the grid, he has speed but he has his wings clipped where he is right now. Williams might work, swap him for Russell. That sounds like the logical move for all parties.

Yeah Williams might be the most likely swap (if Williams are paying drivers rather than looking for drivers to bring money as they have in the recent past). I doubt AM are looking to drop Vettel so I doubt that's an option.

eviltimeban

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I really doubt that's true. I'd say he's acutely aware of the situation.

Well maybe more he feels he *should* be equal. I believe he thinks, like all drivers probably do about themselves, that he's as good as Hamilton.

duploelabs

eviltimeban wrote: »

Well maybe more he feels he *should* be equal. I believe he thinks, like all drivers probably do about themselves, that he's as good as Hamilton.

You believe he thinks???

Well that's me convinced

AMKC

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah Williams might be the most likely swap (if Williams are paying drivers rather than looking for drivers to bring money as they have in the recent past). I doubt AM are looking to drop Vettel so I doubt that's an option.

Certainly not now anyway after Vettel got them there best ever podium position although Vettel and Bottas together would be interesting and Lance could go to Mercedes or to William's and Russell to Mercedes.

El_Duderino 09

AMKC wrote: »

Certainly not now anyway after Vettel got them there best ever podium position although Vettel and Bottas together would be interesting and Lance could go to Mercedes or to William's and Russell to Mercedes.

It would be interesting but I don't see lance going anywhere.

I also don't really buy into the hype about Aston's best ever result. It's technically ture but not really instructive in reality. Aston is just a sponsor. The car has nothing to do with AM except the colour scheme. Perez won a race in that car last year. But Vettel certainly had a good result last weekend.

El_Duderino 09

eviltimeban wrote: »

Well maybe more he feels he *should* be equal. I believe he thinks, like all drivers probably do about themselves, that he's as good as Hamilton.

If his contract says he should be treated the same as Hamilton then he would be absolutely correct to think he should be treated equally. I don't know what his contract says BTW.

Regarding how drivers view themselves, I remember Coulthard saying he was offered a ferrari drive instead of Irvine and he refused because they wanted him as no.2 to Schumacher. He said he believed he could beat Michael and joked that that was pretty clearly not as fast as Michael. I wondered if he realised that at the time or it just became clear to him in later years after he retired.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah Williams might be the most likely swap (if Williams are paying drivers rather than looking for drivers to bring money as they have in the recent past). I doubt AM are looking to drop Vettel so I doubt that's an option.

Sorry, just to clarify. I didn't mean Bottas would go to AM, just that he would do a move like Vettel in leaving a big team for a smaller one in the hopes of being happier and being a better fit.

AMKC

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah Williams might be the most likely swap (if Williams are paying drivers rather than looking for drivers to bring money as they have in the recent past). I doubt AM are looking to drop Vettel so I doubt that's an option.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It would be interesting but I don't see lance going anywhere.

I also don't really buy into the hype about Aston's best ever result. It's technically ture but not really instructive in reality. Aston is just a sponsor. The car has nothing to do with AM except the colour scheme. Perez won a race in that car last year. But Vettel certainly had a good result last weekend.

Yes good points.

Why do you think Lance might not move? Is it because of his father? Surely a move to Mercedes if he got the opportunity would be a good move and a move up the grid. He could get 2nd place maybe then most weekends and the odd win too.
Then if Hamilton retires at the end of this year or in the next couple of years sometime they could get Russell in and Russell + Lance would not be a bad team at Mercedes. Who knows they might even let them compete with each other for wins.

El_Duderino 09

I think lance isn't even in the conversation at Mercedes. He's average at best. Mercedes have Russell and Ocon on the roster and they're both well ahead of Lance.

I think Lance is only at a good team because of his father. There's no way a mclaren or ferrari or red bull would be interested in Lance. Let alone Mercedes who already has 2 better options.

mickdw

Lance is holding his own though and good enough to be in f1

chicorytip

Vettel, if he has rediscovered his mojo, would be a perfect fit for Mercedes should Hamilton quit next year. Verstappen would be the front runner for the job should he decide to leave Red Bull. Merc would never appoint Russell as No.1 driver. They want a big beast - a proven winner.

El_Duderino 09

mickdw wrote: »

Lance is holding his own though and good enough to be in f1

People say that as if its good. I think we all know the story with stroll. He was a pay driver and got years to develop into an average driver who can hold his own due to his sponsorship and his dad buying a team. Its not really a fairytale story.

flazio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

People say that as if its good. I think we all know the story with stroll. He was a pay driver and got years to develop into an average driver who can hold his own due to his sponsorship and his dad buying a team. Its not really a fairytale story.

I'm still very impressed with his performance in Turkey last year, he also did well in the lower formulae. He's no World Champion but he's holding his own.

Burkie1203

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

People say that as if its good. I think we all know the story with stroll. He was a pay driver and got years to develop into an average driver who can hold his own due to his sponsorship and his dad buying a team. Its not really a fairytale story.

A pole position, several podiums and a decent Junior career. He is well above average.

El_Duderino 09

Burkie1203 wrote: »

A pole position, several podiums and a decent Junior career. He is well above average.

He's not well above average in the 1 field. He's bang average at best. But has had some excellent results you could count them on one hand (and a lot of stinkers which you'd probably need both hands and your socks off to count).

Marginally beaten by an aging Massa in his first season. Marginally beat pay driver and an absolute nobody Sirotkin in his second and beaten out the gate by perez in the next 2 seasons.

Faugheen

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think lance isn't even in the conversation at Mercedes. He's average at best. Mercedes have Russell and Ocon on the roster and they're both well ahead of Lance.

I think Lance is only at a good team because of his father. There's no way a mclaren or ferrari or red bull would be interested in Lance. Let alone Mercedes who already has 2 better options.

I've seen you say this before about Ocon but I'm 95% sure he's been released from Mercedes.

The only drivers they have in F1 and feeder series are Russell and Vesti in F3

pjohnson

Faugheen wrote: »

I've seen you say this before about Ocon but I'm 95% sure he's been released from Mercedes.

Technically yes he has no contracted ties with Mercedes or their affiliates.

His agent however is Toto Wolff so hes not exactly banished from their camp completely.