Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Jordan 199

I always like the Canadian GP as it starts in the evening here. EJ's team always did very well there too.

El_Duderino 09

Story here suggesting AM is lobbying to have the FIA rule to make the gap smaller between high and low rake cars.

Motorsport.com: Aston pushing FIA to cut gap between high, low-rake F1 cars.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/aston-fia-low-high-rake-cars/6294638/amp/

They feel they are unfairly penalised because they run a low rake car and it turns out that the aero changes are bad for low rake cars.

I think they can fcuk off. If they don't like the low rake car that Mercedes designed for them then maybe they should focus on designing a higher rake car for themselves for next year. Their issue should be with Mercedes who designed their car for them, not the FIA for changing the rules.

El_Duderino 09

OSI wrote: »

The rules meant that a change in rake philosophy for the car is impossible, so anyone running a low rake has no way to alter the car to mitigate the losses caused. There is the other issue here as to whether F1 itself pushed for the change and should the commercial rights holder have such influence.

That's the way it is. And it looks like it has made the championship competitive this year. I'm fine with that.

There's something very snivelling about Mercedes using AM to be it's attack dog. It wants to appear above the politics and wanting to win the championship at at canyer by rule changes. But they also want to win another boring championship by rule changes.

mickdw

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's the way it is. And it looks like it has made the championship competitive this year. I'm fine with that.

There's something very snivelling about Mercedes using AM to be it's attack dog. It wants to appear above the politics and wanting to win the championship at at canyer by rule changes. But they also want to win another boring championship by rule changes.

There is surely a valid case though when you are token limited and a rule change means you have to alter you entire design philosophy.
It pretty much guarantees to penalise. A rule change such as this should be outside the token system.

El_Duderino 09

mickdw wrote: »

There is surely a valid case though when you are token limited and a rule change means you have to alter you entire design philosophy.
It pretty much guarantees to penalise. A rule change such as this should be outside the token system.

It's the same as any other rule change. They design their cars and then live with the consequences.

This is Mercedes asking the FIA to hand them another title without a fight. They've been fine with tokens making it harder for opponents to catch up when they were ahead. I don't think I have any tissues to mop up Mercedes tears about teams having a baked-in advantage.

El_Duderino 09

From the race thread...

eviltimeban wrote: »

Who's better, Stroll or Bottas?

Bottas. People talk about how terrible Bottas is but it's mostly due to disappointment that he can only beat Hamilton occasionally.

He's teammates with one of the best drivers ever and he does alright against him - but not genuinely competitive. Stroll is only known to us because he's a unique kind of pay driver. He's had time to become a passable driver but bottas is in f1 on merit. He's very lucky to be in a Mercedes due to the fact that he's good but not good enough to challenge Hamilton over a season.

But stroll is a bit of a joke with a great PR job and a neck like a jocky's ballocks. He's had his few great performances and even squeeked a couple of podiums but let's not pretend he's actually good.

waynescales1

Seemed harsh at the time but looks like Vettel forcing Perez out of Racing Point was the best thing that could have happened to him.

AMKC

waynescales1 wrote: »

Seemed harsh at the time but looks like Vettel forcing Perez out of Racing Point was the best thing that could have happened to him.

Yep it looks like that alright and if Stroll keeps beating Vettel it could be the worst thing that ever happened to Vettel.
Vettel needs to do better than Stroll tomorrow or it will look bad. I know only the second race of the season but he needs to do better than Stroll in more races than Stroll.

El_Duderino 09

AMKC wrote: »

Yep it looks like that alright and if Stroll keeps beating Vettel it could be the worst thing that ever happened to Vettel.
Vettel needs to do better than Stroll tomorrow or it will look bad. I know only the second race of the season but he needs to do better than Stroll in more races than Stroll.

It would be great for Stroll's reputation. Some people will make out that Stroll is a tip-top driver and that's why he's beating Vettel - not because Vettel is, and has been on a run of very poor form for a few years now.

duploelabs

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It would be great for Stroll's reputation. Some people will make out that Stroll is a tip-top driver and that's why he's beating Vettel - not because Vettel is, and has been on a run of very poor form for a few years now.

Stroll is the best of the gentlemens' drivers

quokula

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

From the race thread...



Bottas. People talk about how terrible Bottas is but it's mostly due to disappointment that he can only beat Hamilton occasionally.

He's teammates with one of the best drivers ever and he does alright against him - but not genuinely competitive. Stroll is only known to us because he's a unique kind of pay driver. He's had time to become a passable driver but bottas is in f1 on merit. He's very lucky to be in a Mercedes due to the fact that he's good but not good enough to challenge Hamilton over a season.

But stroll is a bit of a joke with a great PR job and a neck like a jocky's ballocks. He's had his few great performances and even squeeked a couple of podiums but let's not pretend he's actually good.

There is really nothing about Bottas pre-F1 career that makes him stand out as more deserving of a place in F1 than Stroll. Neither made it to GP 2, both have lower level championship wins when there was no competition who made it anywhere near F1, but both were also beaten in championships by other drivers who did later make it to F1 but never progressed far.

Bottas then ended up at Williams next to a post-eye-injury, fit for retirement Massa, where he barely outperformed him. Luckily he was the perfect man for the job when an above average journeyman like Rosberg proved too much for Hamilton to handle and Mercedes needed someone to reliably come second in an extremely dominant car without ever risking rocking the boat, and Bottas was just the man.

Stroll is obviously nothing special but he has been improving year in and year out and I’d struggle to say he’s not a better driver than Bottas by now. The only driver on the grid you could genuinely say with some assurance is worse than Bottas right now would be Mazepin.

Glico Man

Tbf to Bottas, when he was at Williams, the car performed better than expected and he and Massa took great advantage of that. He was certainly the best of a difficult bunch to fill Rosberg's seat at the last minute due to Toto being his manager.

He's done what's been expected of him. Win a few races when Lewis is off the boil, and challenge top 3 when Lewis is on it. He's got his fair share of podiums.

Can't expect much more from him.

He's a decent racer at the end of the day, but I don't ever think he'll challenge for the title unless Hamilton does a '99 Schumacher and injure himself.

That's nothing against Valterri. He seems like a nice guy, but has his place, and that's enough for Merc atm.

Harika

https://mobile.twitter.com/F1/status/1383723463064449032

Miami gp confirmation

Glico Man

Harika wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/F1/status/1383723463064449032

Miami gp confirmation

A circuit around a stadium carpark sounds a bit less scenic than the one they'd planned with the bridge.

Also goes in an anti-clockwise direction, so maybe a decent chance of overtaking down towards Turn 11 if they get a good run out of the 6,7,8 sequence. Not overly fanatical about that massive back straight, but I suppose it can't all be fast, flowing corners.

flazio

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant anti clockwise as the rest of your point still made sense. Either that or your house must have got a bargain on ex barbershop clocks.

Glico Man

flazio wrote: »

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant anti clockwise as the rest of your point still made sense. Either that or your house must have got a bargain on ex barbershop clocks.

Ah for... yes.

For the record, I do love a good barbershop clock!

donspeekinglesh

Glico Man wrote: »

A circuit around a stadium carpark sounds a bit less scenic than the one they'd planned with the bridge.

Hopefully it'll be better then the races around a casino carpark.

klose

So two entertaining races in and looks like we have a tussle for both championships this season, let's hope it continues. Up next Portugal, and which iirc had some pretty OP DRS last year.

It's not just because of Hamilton today (though it's brought it back to mind :P ) but I really think they could/should get rid of DRS now. It's too effective in certain cases and there's an inevitability to most passes.
It kinda reminds me of football where they keep changing formats and adding extra ways for teams to qualify for tournaments, they're all about keeping the advantage for the top teams and removing risk for them. With DRS it means that teams can run to their delta and pick a strategy and that's that. At least there used to be risk to certain strategies with track position being crucial.

SureYWouldntYa

Its needed cause of dirty air

Maybe with the new cars that will have less it could be looked at, but it's necessary evil atm

But if we just want the fastest cars at the front and not to be held up then why not just do time trials? There's far too little risk in giving up track position now.

SureYWouldntYa

Then it would become a race for the undercut since cars, despite being able to go faster, often cant overtake

I think Crofty said you'd needed was it a 1.4 second advantage to be able to pass someone without DRS, which on a circuit with laps coming in under 1.15 in quali is a bit mad

barryribs

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Then it would become a race for the undercut since cars, despite being able to go faster, often cant overtake

I think Crofty said you'd needed was it a 1.4 second advantage to be able to pass someone without DRS, which on a circuit with laps coming in under 1.15 in quali is a bit mad

'Crofty' talks out of his hole a lot, I wouldn't take anything he says as truth. The extra 200 metres added onto the DRS zone for the race this year meant that almost all the passing was done before braking. Lando was the only driver capable of defending for more than a lap from Hamilton as far as I recall

Killinator

I may be wrong going by comments here and elsewhere online but was DRS not available for all drivers both in this race and every race for the last several years?
Also it is a thing where lapped cars are allowed unlap themselves under safety car, another thing that has been around for yonks.

Hamilton benefits from the same rules that are there for everyone else and everyone goes crazy!

DRS has helped Lando, Max, Charles,etc.. in many occasion with few complaints.
Same for the overtaking to unlap themselves.
Perez and Gasly won last year with plenty of DRS assistance but nobody bemoaned them that!

When the rules punish Hamilton people are delighted and it's justified but when they favour him it's an outrage and everything that's wrong with the sport

I get it, plenty of people don't like, nay, even hate Hamilton, but it doesn't hurt to occasionally looked at things from a slightly less biased view against him.

klose

barryribs wrote: »

'Crofty' talks out of his hole a lot, I wouldn't take anything he says as truth. The extra 200 metres added onto the DRS zone for the race this year meant that almost all the passing was done before braking. Lando was the only driver capable of defending for more than a lap from Hamilton as far as I recall

They were saying DRS is designed to get the driver into position to overtake in the braking zone, then Lewis proceeded to blitz everyone before they even got to the breaking zone when he had DRS on then. Props to lando though, kept him at bay for 3 to 4 laps with, but its kind of sad that with DRS being so powerful that it was always a matter of when Lewis would pass lando instead of it

Killinator

Killinator wrote: »

I may be wrong going by comments here and elsewhere online but was DRS not available for all drivers both in this race and every race for the last several years?
Also it is a thing where lapped cars are allowed unlap themselves under safety car, another thing that has been around for yonks.

Hamilton benefits from the same rules that are there for everyone else and everyone goes crazy!

DRS has helped Lando, Max, Charles,etc.. in many occasion with few complaints.
Same for the overtaking to unlap themselves.
Perez and Gasly won last year with plenty of DRS assistance but nobody bemoaned them that!

When the rules punish Hamilton people are delighted and it's justified but when they favour him it's an outrage and everything that's wrong with the sport

I get it, plenty of people don't like, nay, even hate Hamilton, but it doesn't hurt to occasionally looked at things from a slightly less biased view against him.

"Everyone goes crazy"? Talk about hyperbole.

I've been saying for about 18 months at least that DRS should be gotten rid of. It's not just because Hamilton benefitted today.

As for unlapping oneself, I've also been criticising this for years and years.
When it was first introduced Brundle pointed out that it meant not only did a 20 second gap that was fought for and earned disappeared as before but any lapped cars in between would be gone, further reducing the advantage the leader had earned.

Sorry for going crazy, I'll try to take a deep breath. I hope I haven't scared you.

Killinator

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"Everyone goes crazy"? Talk about hyperbole.

I've been saying for about 18 months at least that DRS should be gotten rid of. It's not just because Hamilton benefitted today.

As for unlapping oneself, I've also been criticising this for years and years.
When it was first introduced Brundle pointed out that it meant not only did a 20 second gap that was fought for and earned disappeared as before but any lapped cars in between would be gone, further reducing the advantage the leader had earned.

Sorry for going crazy, I'll try to take a deep breath. I hope I haven't scared you.

Who said anything about scaring? What a weird comment

Killinator

Killinator wrote: »

Who said anything about scaring? What a weird comment

Well I'm just going so crazy like surely it would be making you wonder what I might do next!? Since I'm going oh so crazy. What with my repeating my consistent opinions that I've held for years and all.
I'm going so crazy who knows what I'm gonna do!?

Killinator

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well I'm just going so crazy like surely it would be making you wonder what I might do next!? Since I'm going oh so crazy. What with my repeating my consistent opinions that I've held for years and all.
I'm going so crazy who knows what I'm gonna do!?

Riiiight, don't take everything so literally maybe.
I won't engage any further because you appear to possibly be having a stroke

Killinator

Killinator wrote: »

Riiiight, don't take everything so literally maybe.
I won't engage any further because you appear to possibly be having a stroke

I dunno, you're the one with repeating key presses, I'd be more worried about yourself having a stroke.

Come along posting plain incorrect hyperbole, get shown that you're wrong with some sarcastic out-doing hyperbole, refuse to engage. Classic.