Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

OSI

OSI wrote: »

Hulkenberg is treated like some deity and never managed a single podium, yet the much derided Stroll got a podium and pole in his debut season. Many thought the potential loss of Perez was some great travesty and waste of talent, but in the races they both finished in the last season they both finished ahead of the other 3 times.

I’m sure he got a leg up because of his dad’s money, but he’s far from the least deserving driver on the grid.

Deity? Most people think of him as a solid to very good driver. Actually most people think of him as a meme.

Before F1 he won A1GP as 19 year old, Formula 3 EuroSeries and the GP2 series. I always bring it up about him but I remember him racing in F3 at the Norisring and being a few seconds a lap faster than the field on a 1 minute lap. He was massively talented but it looked like he might not get into F1 because he's tall for a racing driver and at the time weight made a big difference. Unfortunately he started with Williams and just didn't develop as he should.
When you look at drivers who have switched teams in the last decade and how hard it was for them to adjust. Fisichella went from almost winning the Belgian GP to being 0.5-1.5 seconds a lap off Kimi at Ferrari and he wasn't exactly pulling up trees that season.
Last season when Nico jumped in with no notice he was within a tenth of Stroll for the British Grand Prix, outqualified and finished one position behind Stroll at the 70th Anniversary GP. Qualifying for Eifel was a disaster but he still got into the points in the race.

Is he elite tier? No, he never made it that high. Is he at least as good as half of the current grid? Yeah probably. He's somewhere below the absolute elite level and a lot of people wish he'd had more of a shot to prove himself after the promise he showed when he was young.

But yeah, people like him, he's likeable and talented and has become a meme and seems fine with it. He's not a GOAT but I'd rather see him in Mercedes than Bottas for one example.

El_Duderino 09

mickdw wrote: »

I dont agree.
Its a strange one. Generally wet conditions are regarded as the great leveller and those who excel in the wet regard as tier one drivers.
Lance comes to the fore in the wet yet gets slated.
I think he is worth his f1 seat.
If he gets blown away by vettel i will change that opinion.

The wet weather rule is a good indicator of a good driver, but the test of how good they are comes week in, week out. Wet weather can’t be the only place where he looks good if you’re going to make the case that he’s good. He’s a generally poor driver who is surprisingly good in the wet.

I feel pretty confident saying Stroll wouldn’t still be in f1 if he weren’t a special category of pay driver.

klose

Who would people say out of current F2 drivers can feel most hard done by being out of an F1 seat due to "pay drivers"?

Or, who was the the most prestigious F2 driver to not get an F1 seat ever? Still very much a newbie to the sport so I'd be interested to hear.

muckwarrior

OSI wrote: »

How many podiums does Hulkenberg have again?

Podiums are more a measure of a car's performance, and sometimes circumstance. I prefer to measure a driver on how they perform against their team mate week in week out, and in that regard Hulk is miles ahead of Stroll. Most of Stroll's best results have come when his team mate was out of the race, e.g. his often lauded Williams podium, where Massa would most likely have won but for a mechanical.

That said, Stroll did actually seem to improve a lot last season, managing to beat his middling team mate more than once.

quokula

klose wrote: »

Who would people say out of current F2 drivers can feel most hard done by being out of an F1 seat due to "pay drivers"?

Or, who was the the most prestigious F2 driver to not get an F1 seat ever? Still very much a newbie to the sport so I'd be interested to hear.

You never quite know how a rookie will step up, but rather than look at F2 you can look at a pretty long list of F1 drivers who performed well but were cast aside even though they had been showing they belonged on the grid.

As mentioned, Hulkenberg turned up at a moments notice to replace Perez when he had covid and surprised nobody by outperforming Stroll in the same car despite a complete lack of preparation time. Then you've got someone like Ocon who ended up sitting out for a season when Stroll replaced him, effectively killing his career momentum which had been looking very decent at that point as he was in prime position for a Mercedes seat, but a year away from the sport left him getting rusty while Russell became the new heir to that particular throne and Ocon ultimately got dropped and had to start building himself up again in a very tough environment alongside Ricciardo (and soon Alonso) at Renault.

Then you've guys like Grosjean and Magnussen, both off the grid this year, both have previously shown themselves to be very good drivers when given a decent cars, which the Haas very much isn't. Even Fernando Alonso, the greatest driver in the world for the past decade or two, has ended up sitting out the last couple of seasons because he chose retirement over trundling around at the back in one of the few seats that were available.

Then there's the drivers who got their foot in the door but never had a chance to even begin to realise their potential. In the last decade or so there's been guys like Vandoorne, Vergne, Bourdais and others who have proven themselves to be absolutely world class in other forms of motorsport but got booted out of F1 after one or two seasons in a mid field team where they performed well but never got a real chance to show what they're capable of. If someone like Stroll had similar treatment to many drivers like that he'd have been out the door a few years ago. Instead he has had the chance to continue to gain experience without any pressure that his career might be on the line, and he has gotten to the point where he is pretty competent now, but others could have done so much more had they been afforded the same opportunities.

Jordan 199

Hi, my season prediction thread will remain open until Thursday. Just letting you know if you want to take part.

wotausername

The 2021 safety cars announced

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.check-out-the-new-mercedes-and-aston-martin-f1-safety-cars-2021.6oPIsF0xEkmJXmwkvrp3Tu.html

Jordan 199

Pre-season testing will be shown live on Sky Sports F1 from this Friday to Sunday.

seamusk84

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Pre-season testing will be shown live on Sky Sports F1 from this Friday to Sunday.

My basic Sky Digital package seems to have lost Sky F1. Anyone else experience this?

Looks like I'll have to upgrade to get the Sky Sports package this week as the only option? €20 extra for the first six months and then €40 thereafter. That seem right to you guys?

Jordan 199

Lovely shade of blue on the Alpine:

AMKC

When do Ferrari unveil there new car?

Pen Rua

AMKC wrote: »

When do Ferrari unveil there new car?

Wednesday.

https://twitter.com/ScuderiaFerrari/status/1367792272998285313

mickdw

seamusk84 wrote: »

My basic Sky Digital package seems to have lost Sky F1. Anyone else experience this?

Looks like I'll have to upgrade to get the Sky Sports package this week as the only option? €20 extra for the first six months and then €40 thereafter. That seem right to you guys?

I have sky sports f1 since sky got the f1 and i have it via the hd pack.
I still have it and have not heard anything about losing it.

Pen Rua

For those relying on NOW TV...

I got an email with an offer for €30 for two months, expiring next weekend.

They also have a "standard" offer of €19.50 per month for three months.

It's my experience that when you go to cancel they will offer you another similar deal to keep you going.

seamusk84

mickdw wrote: »

I have sky sports f1 since sky got the f1 and i have it via the hd pack.
I still have it and have not heard anything about losing it.

Ah maybe because I don't have HD is why I have lost it.

Hmm looks like I'm going to have to upgrade to Sky Sports it seems before testing starts.

mickdw

seamusk84 wrote: »

Ah maybe because I don't have HD is why I have lost it.

Hmm looks like I'm going to have to upgrade to Sky Sports it seems before testing starts.

How did you have it without the hd?

flazio

I'm at work while testing is on. (Medical device factory) and I want to wait and see that they don't stick the early races on Sky One like they did a couple of years ago before I fork out for a Now TV pass.

seamusk84

mickdw wrote: »

How did you have it without the hd?

Always did up to now with the basic Sky Digital package. Sky Sports F1 was always there just not the HD version of the channel.

Anyone else having this issue? Just want to be sure before I flip the switch and buy Sky Sports! Only getting it to have the F1 back, no interest in anything else.

Pen Rua

Haas' team kit for 2021 is suspiciously like a certain flag.

https://twitter.com/PREMA_Team/status/1369222564233494529

barryribs

The irony of it all is that they could have just written Russia on the cars and clothes, instead of the flag, and it would have been ok by WADA's rules. Maybe they just want the publicity

recyclebin

To be fair to Mazepin, he has been accused of many things but doping hasn't been one of them as far as I'm aware, so not allowing him to represent Russia by WADA does not seem fair. Banning a whole country punishes the many innocent people.

Charlie-Bravo

Maybe a conversation for another thread/forum - Banning a whole country does seem a bit unfair to an individual, but most countries give sports grants towards development of people, so that's where it comes down to...punish the whole country.

Anyway, back to F1 related topics...this is not the first time that a Livery on a Haas car has caused some controversy...I remember Whyte Bikes inadvertently sponsoring them :pac:.

Anjobe

recyclebin wrote: »

To be fair to Mazepin, he has been accused of many things but doping hasn't been one of them as far as I'm aware, so not allowing him to represent Russia by WADA does not seem fair. Banning a whole country punishes the many innocent people.

WADA's (most recent) case against Russia was that officials falsified data from the Moscow testing laboratory to cover up positive tests that would have indicated systematic doping, so acting against individuals was not possible and banning Russia was the only option until RUSADA can demonstrate it is compliant with the World anti-doping code.

El_Duderino 09

Am I the only one who thinks this isn't a big issue an can't find it in themselves to get worked up about it? If i were WADA then I'd be furious. Bit I'm not WADA, I'm just an F1 fan.

I presume it shows Mazepin is thinking of buying the team from Haas, and I presume that means the FIA won't do anything to pick a fight with him. So unless WADA gets involved, they will go ahead with the livery.

And as liveries go, it's ok, nothing spectacular one way or the other. Blue, white and red are fairly classic racing colours. I think it's just big marketing exercise for a team who has said it isn't going to develop this year's car and will focus on the next year. They won't have broken any rules until they actually race in the colours so this hubbub gives them guaranteed publicity until the first race at which point they could change the livery to something less obvious if they think they'll get done by WADA.

recyclebin

It's not really a big F1 issue. It's preseason so not a lot else to talk about until testing starts!

Infoanon

recyclebin wrote: »

It's not really a big F1 issue. It's preseason so not a lot else to talk about until testing starts!

The FIA will not want to be seen to be going against WADA.

Liberty Media as a quoted company has social responsibilities so it won't want to be seen assisting a perceived two fingers to the WADA ruling.

Throw in some veiled threats by Haas of it quitting F1 - with the assumption that Mazepins father will buy it - and you can see that this is a big F1 issue.

Anjobe

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks this isn't a big issue an can't find it in themselves to get worked up about it? If i were WADA then I'd be furious. Bit I'm not WADA, I'm just an F1 fan.

I presume it shows Mazepin is thinking of buying the team from Haas, and I presume that means the FIA won't do anything to pick a fight with him. So unless WADA gets involved, they will go ahead with the livery.

And as liveries go, it's ok, nothing spectacular one way or the other. Blue, white and red are fairly classic racing colours. I think it's just big marketing exercise for a team who has said it isn't going to develop this year's car and will focus on the next year. They won't have broken any rules until they actually race in the colours so this hubbub gives them guaranteed publicity until the first race at which point they could change the livery to something less obvious if they think they'll get done by WADA.

Doping does not appear to be a big issue for F1, but the FIA are signatories of the World anti-doping code since 2010 (https://www.fia.com/anti-doping) so are obliged to comply with the WADA ruling on Russia as recently upheld by the CAS.

El_Duderino 09

recyclebin wrote: »

It's not really a big F1 issue. It's preseason so not a lot else to talk about until testing starts!

Yeah this is it. There’s little else to chat about for now. Its fine to follow it for the soap opera aspect, but it’s really not a big f1 story. I can’t imagine liking or disliking Haas on account of having Russian flag colours.

barryribs

Infoanon wrote: »

The FIA will not want to be seen to be going against WADA.

Liberty Media as a quoted company has social responsibilities so it won't want to be seen assisting a perceived two fingers to the WADA ruling.

Throw in some veiled threats by Haas of it quitting F1 - with the assumption that Mazepins father will buy it - and you can see that this is a big F1 issue.

I don't think it is at all. The only difference between the Russian GP before and after the WADA ruling was the lack of national athem before the race and they took the flag off the run off on the final corner.


If Liberty media were serious about social responsibilities, they wouldn't be using tracks built on slave labour in UAE.


I wouldn't be surprised if there was a minor adjustment to the sequencing of the colours, thats about it.