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Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭ quokula

    Because the Mercedes is quite different to the Aston Martin, and the Alpine is quite different to the Alfa - though we saw from their Ferrari days that Alonso was always a cut above Kimi, just as he was always a cut above the entire grid.

    When there's a championship to fight for Seb is on a different level, and he was comfortably better than Hamilton and close to Alonso's level back when they had evenly matched cars. He hasn't lost it so much as circumstances have left him with little to fight for, and he doesn't have that killer instinct of an Alonso to fight tooth and nail whether it's for 1st or 11th. He also has a family life and interests outside of F1 so he doesn't need to take unnecessary risks with little reward.

    Hypothetically if Vettel joined Merc ahead of 2014 he'd currently be fighting for his 12th title (as there's no chance in hell he'd have lost one to Rosberg), but instead he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,797 ✭✭✭✭ AMKC

    Like this time in 2018 at Baku.

    I Doubt many other drivers would have done that. Was something else.

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,078 ✭✭✭✭ Buttonftw

    Psychology plays a part, even subconsciously. Are you going to be consistently at your best knowing 12th is the best you're probably going to get?

    On top of that it's a different formula that's been left in situ for ages now. It's much more technical and subtle purely because of the tyres. No-one could touch Kimi flat-out round a track on average. Whether it was qualifying or a couple of stints on tyres that were like bricks I honestly have Kimi in his first 5 years ahead of anyone I've seen. Not to say others couldn't do it but I have him on his own. It's something Hamilton was pretty good at (though he only had a few years at it), see GP2 Turkey. As I've shitted on about at length before, the tyres and the formula are currently set up that it doesn't suit a lot of drivers. Hamilton through a combination of skill and luck has worked on it and landed at the fastest team. I don't think Kimi would have the right mentality for long-term success like Hamilton has had. Vettel had it for a bit but as with Alonso when he was at Ferrari & challenging Vettel.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,855 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09

    Ah, last year people were saying the same about when he moved to Aston his motivation would rebound and he'd be back to his best. Now it's the same argument but he needs to be in a Red Bull or Mercedes to get his motivation back? What if her was in the Mercedes against Hamilton and was being beaten (which he obviously would be), then I suppose he would be lacking motivation for some other reason.

    If he's slower now because he can't get motivated or focuses more on family or whatever reason, then the salient point is that he's slower now than he used to be. He's bang average most weeks and has an occasional good performance. It's been going on for years now since the second half of the 2018 season (spanning 4 seasons) and still people make excuse after excuse instead of simply reporting the fact that he's not a very good driver anymore.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,791 ✭✭✭ Frank Bullitt

    Kimi leaves F1 with the helmet he started with. Nice touch.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭ teotwawki

    Many drivers have joked that that each child adds a couple of tenths of a second. Obviously it's just a wives tale and not a proven phenomenon BUT there is evidence that fatherhood significantly lowers testosterone. Testosterone has an anti-aging effect.

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,578 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980

    Looking ominous in FP2 unless the Red Bull is carrying a lot of sandbags.

  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭ maconof

    I'm loving this "who can turn down the engine the most" craic in FP1 & FP2. The real proof of where the cars are really at is gonna be in Q3 for sure.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,791 ✭✭✭ Frank Bullitt

    So Merc have a large gap on one lap pace, but RB have a huge gap in race pace.

    They both must have gotten a deal on sandbags.

  • Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭ Lawlesz

    On the Kimi thing, he was on beyond the grid again this week and even his own trainer said he was at his strongest in those McLaren years. His whole persona is as a laid back, couldn't give a fcuk driver, was it simply that he lost motivation after winning a WDC? Or was it a string of bad cars that meant he couldn't be arsed any more?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭ MadYaker

    It goes without saying that they are in different cars, everybody knows this. We've seen what George has managed with that williams. I don't recall any similar heroics from seb or kimi. Having children seems to be the common denominator though.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,298 ✭✭✭ greenspurs

    ABH for me.

    Anyone But Hamilton.

  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭ fe1ki5

    I'd disagree - I would not be a fan of Hamilton's media trained persona and much preferred him in the earlier days but cannot deny his talent.

    It seems to be a typical Irish AND British trait that we turn on people when they become "too" successful.

    Personally I think we can't fully appreciate his achievements because they have happened within our generation but records are made to be broken so good luck to him! I certainly think he has a cleaner driving attitude but if Max prevails, credit where it is due. It has certainly been an interesting season ... Alpine providing a notable contribution too!

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭ kksaints

    Oddly I'm the opposite, I think a lot more of Hamilton now than I did up to around 2017. He went through a spell around 2010-2012 where he was horrendously insufferable and had lots of collisions with Massa if I recall correctly and his behaviour in 2016 when Rosberg was very poor claiming conspiracy when his engine blew up in Malaysia.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭ McFly85

    Hope Max can do it, been the best driver this season and him being dangerous is completely overblown imo. Over on Reddit today there was a tweet digging up an old Hamilton quote when he was questioned on his own aggressive driving style, and he said he needed to drive that way because he didn’t have the fastest car, which is pretty much spot on for what Max is doing now.

    And I don’t hate Hamilton, I’m just tired of seeing the same team with the best resources win over and over again. This season has been generally brilliant, but the last few races have ultimately been a procession.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,191 ✭✭✭ Jordan 199

  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭ fe1ki5

    The difference in this case is that RB have arguably had the best car this season and mercedes have been on the backfoot (due to their own fault in stopping development too early last year), although they seem to have caught up in the last few races.

    I think Max has had a great season... you only have to compare him to his team mates the last few seasons to note his ability. (Although RB and their second driver is a whole other topic). But, I am not a fan of his driving style. I think for me, it is on the wrong side of aggressive.

    I do enjoy Hamilton as a racer and I think he has had an interesting career - and he probably wasn't unlike Max at that age back in the day.... "is that Glock going slow" might just be the F1 quote of the millennium lol!!

    I understand completely that it has gotten boring for a lot of people with Hamilton always winning and the mercedes dominance.

    But I have so much respect for Hamilton maintaining his level of performance for over 14 years! (and do think there is more to him than just having a fast car).

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,065 ✭✭✭✭ flazio

    That's what's been missing among the die hards this year. The respect. Of course Mercedes-Benz will try to catch and beat Red Bull, that's literally their job. Ferrari had the better car a couple of years ago, Mercedes-Benz got the head down and beat them. I don't paint every team member of Mercedes-Benz a gobsh🙊 by association with Lewis Hamilton, although Toto and Christian have me deluded at this stage. I like James Allison, I like Adrian Newey. If it weren't for Covid bubbles the pit crews would probably most likely go for a drink together after all this is over. End of the day it's just an inscription on a trophy.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭ Gamb!t

    Yup he really is a fantastic driver and a very talented driver in rain conditions.

    I was hoping Schumacher's record would remain for a long time but I wouldnt begrudge Hamilton he's been solid throughout his career and deserves it.

    Croft and Kravitz wreck my head fawning over him but its the usual English BS over their own.

  • Registered Users Posts: 603 ✭✭✭ Debub

    Hi - a little off topic but is it possible to get Channel 4 on a Smart (Sony Android) TV. I can’t see it as a free view channel via the Aerial nor can I find it on the App Store (GooglePlay).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭ chicorytip

    If Max remains calm he could become champion on Sunday. Last week he was too stressed and his driving was ragged. I think his father Jos, who seems to be a gung-ho, aggressive type of character, might be a negative influence in that regard. He would be better off listening to the wise heads on his pit wall. He has time on his side, unlike Lewis, and could potentially win ten World championships though not all with Red Bull.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭ quokula

    String of bad cars, and a string of incredibly fast teammates who made for very difficult benchmarks he needed to match up to.

    He was very impressive at Lotus and of course he was supremely fast before his sabbatical, before his WDC obviously but also after - the way Fisichella struggled so badly in that Ferrari when Massa was injured says a lot about how both Kimi and Felipe were performing - it was worlds apart from, say, George Russell or Nico Hulkenberg jumping a car last year and immediately being as fast as the regular drivers.

    In his second Ferrari stint he just wasn’t quite at the level of an Alonso or a Vettel as both those drivers were dragging some pretty poor Ferraris to heights where they didn’t belong, even fighting for championships against vastly superior equipment, which was a task Kimi just wasn’t up to.

    And of course he’s in his forties now so his performances were always going to dull. You could say he stayed too long but as long as he enjoyed it and Sauber felt he was a benefit to the team then I don’t think he cares in the slightest how it might change people’s perceptions of his legacy.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,855 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09

    He had the slower car last weekend. If he kept his head and didn't push the boundaries, he could have lost by a minute to Hamilton if they both went full belt without safety cars. Same this weekend most likely.

    If he keeps the head and there's a completely clean race, he's got no chance. He needs something major to happen to slow Hamilton down and his best chance is to make it happen.

    He's notionally the favourite because ahead on race wins, but in reality he's second favourite by a mile. His only way to win is if something unfortunate happens to Hamilton.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,855 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09

    In his second Ferrari stint he just wasn’t quite at the level of an Alonso or a Vettel as both those drivers were dragging some pretty poor Ferraris to heights where they didn’t belong, even fighting for championships against vastly superior equipment, which was a task Kimi just wasn’t up to.

    This notion of dragging a car to where it doesn't belong or out driving a car or getting more speed out of the car than the car has, is absolutely fairytale nonsense. Its fine for media to use this kind of guff to hype a story. That's their job. But we fans shouldn't be caught repeating it because its not real.

    Kimi was very good, maybe even excellent once upon a time. Then he went off the boil and was exposed by faster teammates and he's been barely able to beat journeyman in Gio this year. In 5 years time nobody will remember gio because he was crap. And kimi has slid to that level. Kimi is crap now. He was once great, now he's crap and not worth a drive next year. He hung around too long and his career in totality is very much a mixed bag of reaching great heights and sliding all the way to being crap and coasting on reputation alone and eventually losing his seat.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,797 ✭✭✭✭ AMKC

    I think that's very harsh. I also think Kimi really does not care what anyone else thinks. He was just happy driving on F1 car it's the only thing he has ever really known except for rallying but they are very two different beasts. I also think Antonio Goovanazi was not that bad just that the car was crap. It would have been interesting to see both of them racing the new cars next year but we will not get that now which is a pity.

  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭ fe1ki5

    Yeah I think Max's biggest downfall is Jos Verstappen.

    He comes across awfully (aggressive and negative).

    I get its his son and he wants the best for him and wants to defend him etc but he should perhaps be a wall between Max and the media instead of constantly talking to them and creating more non existent stories and in fact adding more pressure/hype instead of detracting from it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,855 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09

    I think it's an accurate description. I think it's unflattering to Kimi but the last few years don't flatter his career. There's no way to accurately describe his last few years that flatters his career.

    I agree that he doesn't seem to care about what anyone else thinks. But that doesn't make any difference to how he has performed in the last few years.

    We can either flattering, or we can discuss the reality of the steep decline in his performances. We can't do both.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭ eljono

    I have a smart Sony TV and was able to download All4 app for it so it's possible but may depend on the model of your TV.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,065 ✭✭✭✭ flazio

    All 4 doesn't broadcast live channels in Ireland as far as I'm aware.

This discussion has been closed.