Taoiseach shocked and dismayed at Sinn Fein TDs tweet on IRA attacks

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I don't know if they were telling lies, but he's been let go and told to stay away for at least a week.
..... until the dust settles or until he can be replaced?

Why would they be telling lies? Hard to turn around and now say he wasn't good at his job.

I'll pop in here as a centrist voter who has voted across the parties, except Sinn Fein, all my life and say:

"I dont give a fcuk". And I doubt I am alone in that.

I don't particularly like SF but a tweet from an obscure member is of bog all importance. Get governing FG and FF, this kind of thing only gets partisans excited.

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why would they be telling lies? Hard to turn around and now say he wasn't good at his job.

I think Catherine Murphy (deputy chairperson) of the PAC has issues (like most people have) with Stanley's tweet, issues that need to be teased out, why? because if it transpires that he actually believes the validity of Provo attacks in the 1970s, 80s & 90' then it's certainly curtains for him as chair of the PAC.

The pressure is building.

McMurphy

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I think Catherine Murphy (deputy chairperson) of the PAC has issues (like most people have) with Stanley's tweet, issues that need to be teased out, why? because if it transpires that he actually believes the validity of Provo attacks in the 1970s, 80s & 90' then it's certainly curtains for him as chair of the PAC.

The pressure is building.

I like Catherine Murphy, and as I'm in her constituency, she gets a vote from me regularly, however it's hardly going to be news to her or anyone else with more than a single brain cell in their skull that a Sinn Fein member could possibly "believe in the validity of Provo attacks in the 70/80/90s"

I think Stanley was silly for removing his tweet myself, I seen nothing wrong in his comparison of Kilmiachel and Narrow Water, People are free to have their own thoughts outside of official party lines removing the tweet only made a rod for his own back.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I think Catherine Murphy (deputy chairperson) of the PAC has issues (like most people have) with Stanley's tweet, issues that need to be teased out, why? because if it transpires that he actually believes the validity of Provo attacks in the 1970s, 80s & 90' then it's certainly curtains for him as chair of the PAC.

The pressure is building.

Why would it be curtains?

The people who elected Stanley know what he stood for. He is a democratically elected representative. Are you saying that somebody with his beliefs is not fit to serve here but is fit to serve in NI?

More hypocrisy from those who cannot reconcile their own support for killing and revolution in pursuit of political aims with that of others.

Conversation and 'teasing out' certainly required but it won't and should never be on the basis of an exclusion hammer hanging over proceedings.
It will be on the basis of the long needed adult conversation about how we all remember and celebrate a divided past.

hatrickpatrick

a very cool kid wrote: »

When are the provos ever going to learn that 2 wrongs don't make a right?

An eye for an eye makes the world blind.

Not everyone agrees with this stance. For many people, retaliation against a violent oppressor is perfectly legitimate.

For all the cribbing, the RUC and the British Army have been gone decades but the Provisional IRA are still here....

The British Army has been gone decades? They're as "gone" as the Provos.

The SF party are definitely trying to legitimise the Provo acts of the past 30-40 years. If they're such heroes why the need?

Because there's been a concerted propaganda effort to stop this from happening for the past 30-4o years, from Section 31 on the Broadcasting Act all the way up to this furore over celebrating justified attacks against a bigoted force of systematic oppression. Ergo, it is still necessary for people who do not agree with the paradigm that attacks on Crown Forces were wrong or immoral to stand their ground.

Hamsterchops

McMurphy wrote: »

I think Stanley was silly for removing his tweet myself, I seen nothing wrong in his comparison of Kilmiachel and Narrow Water, People are free to have their own thoughts outside of official party lines removing the tweet only made a rod for his own back.

You cannot have a chairperson supporting terrorism from the 1970s or 80s you just can't, (or not at least publically), although I don't like the thought of himself holding those views privately either while he's holding that position.

His IRA views clash with Official Ireland, his pro IRA views would clash with the courts, his IRA views would also clash with most of the Dail too...

If you accept his tweet as being ok or harmless, then anything goes, any bombing was alright, any murder by the Provos was alright, and any action by the Provos against our neighbours was fair game!

This pro Provisional IRA stuff must be put down before the Shinners get anywhere near being in power, because if they get into power, then at every corner they will legitimise the actions of the Provos, every IRA atrocity will have a celebratory tweet (without recourse) - Scary.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

You cannot have a chairperson supporting terrorism from the 1970s or 80s you just can't, (or not at least publically), although I don't like the thought of himself holding those views privately either while he's holding that position.

His IRA views clash with Official Ireland, his pro IRA views would clash with the courts, his IRA views would also clash with most of the Dail too...

If you accept his tweet as being ok or harmless, then anything goes, any bombing was alright, any murder by the Provos was alright, and any action by the Provos against our neighbours was fair game!

This pro Provisional IRA stuff must be put down before the Shinners get anywhere near being in power, because if they get into power, then at every corner they will legitimise the actions of the Provos, every IRA atrocity will have a celebratory tweet (without recourse) - Scary.

SF were the biggest party in the last election. FF and FG no longer get to say what the views of 'Official Ireland' are.

You need to 'wake up and smell the coffee' here as Michael McDowell says in this mornings papers.

hatrickpatrick

Hamsterchops wrote: »

If you accept his tweet as being ok or harmless, then anything goes, any bombing was alright, any murder by the Provos was alright, and any action by the Provos against our neighbours was fair game!

You can believe that attacks targeting Crown Forces were perfectly acceptable while condemning attacks targeting civilians, you know. The two positions are entirely compatible with one another. The only civilians killed in Warrenpoint were killed by British soldiers returning fire. Nothing wrong, therefore, with celebrating that attack by the IRA, which successfully targeted a sectarian force of oppression against an entire demographic.

McMurphy

Hamsterchops wrote: »

You cannot have a chairperson supporting terrorism from the 1970s or 80s you just can't, (or not at least publically), although I don't like the thought of himself holding those views privately either while he's holding that position.

Stopped reading after this very first paragraph, who says you cannot?

Michaél/Leo hang portraits of Dev/Collins in their offices - that's different how?

rdwight

Since SF are so good at brazening out outrageous behaviour (eg Storeygate), I was surprised that Mary Lou gave Stanley a week's gardening leave (as she told us in a particularly sanctimonious fashion that she'd ordered Stanley to spend time with his wounded family). But it looks as if her hand may have been forced by rumblings at ground level that even house visits from enforcers can't stifle.

"...the tweets did prompt negative reaction and criticism within the party. Seán Pender from Kildare, who was an LGBT officer, announced he was resigning from Sinn Féin."

"Former Sinn Féin Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown councillor and LGBT officer Chris Curran said Mr Stanley’s tweet on Mr Varadkar was “ridiculous and insensitive”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/miriam-lord-sinn-f%C3%A9in-has-become-ireland-s-new-political-delete-1.4427988

https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fiosafomuiri%2Fstatus%2F1334650926494310400&widget=Tweet

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40149383.html

timthumbni

SF are full to the brim of bigoted people. They are not one bit interested in a so called “United” Ireland. Some of those in the party would make Goebbels blush with the amount of ****e they come out with.

The kind of people you would move away from in a bar.

Edit- in fact you would leave the bar/town/city to get away from their ****e.

Ash.J.Williams

I’m a straight chap myself but I learned a lot during the marriage ref despite thinking I knew it all. That tweet regarding Leo and his bed and Stanley’s reaction to being called out on it is despicable. It reads like a drunken Gemma fan tweet and doesn’t even resemble a member of the dail. The chap is a half wit.

Same goes to the Waterford up the ra knobhead

FrancieBrady

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I’m a straight chap myself but I learned a lot during the marriage ref despite thinking I knew it all. That tweet regarding Leo and his bed and Stanley’s reaction to being called out on it is despicable. It reads like a drunken Gemma fan tweet and doesn’t even resemble a member of the dail. The chap is a half wit.

Same goes to the Waterford up the ra knobhead

This would be believable if there had been a pile on when he originally tweeted it.
Anyone with any knowledge of how FG FF do politics know his account was trawled for ambiguous tweets that could be made to be about anything.

rdwight

Miriam Lord makes an intriguing aside about the posting history of some of the new crop of SF representatives.

"To put it mildly, the party does not have a good reputation on social media. After the last election, when even Sinn Féin was caught on the hop by the breadth of its success, there had to be a major clean-up of the Twitter accounts of a number of their Leinster House newcomers, who had been tweeting away poisonously in relative obscurity before they hit the big-time"

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/miriam-lord-sinn-f%C3%A9in-has-become-ireland-s-new-political-delete-1.4427988


"The aggression and vitriol dispensed by the enthusiastic ranks of so-called “shinnerbots” is legendary, so much so that even people who have little time for social media and don’t indulge in Twitter are aware of this particular class of online animal"

Apologies to any posters present who may recognize themselves in the above description.

By the way, I had a look at Christine O'Mahony's twitter feed (https://twitter.com/christineomg5?lang=en). In my innocence I was shocked at the types of attacks made on her for being treasonous enough to offer qualified criticism of SF, talking about attempts made to stifle her criticisms, and then resigning from the party.

Hamsterchops

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I’m a straight chap myself but I learned a lot during the marriage ref despite thinking I knew it all. That tweet regarding Leo and his bed and Stanley’s reaction to being called out on it is despicable. It reads like a drunken Gemma fan tweet and doesn’t even resemble a member of the dail. The chap is a half wit.

Same goes to the Waterford up the ra knobhead

Cullinane isn't it?

A proper RA head (or knobhead as you suggest), and poor old Stanley just seems a bit dim to be honest.

Ash.J.Williams

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This would be believable if there had been a pile on when he originally tweeted it.
Anyone with any knowledge of how FG FF do politics know his account was trawled for ambiguous tweets that could be made to be about anything.

Absolutely but he still tweeted it and gave us insight into his empty brain “yippee 4 d tory” feckin dope

rdwight

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This would be believable if there had been a pile on when he originally tweeted it.
Anyone with any knowledge of how FG FF do politics know his account was trawled for ambiguous tweets that could be made to be about anything.

I doubt that FG and FF are the only people trawling around opponents' social media posting histories..

In this case it was a particularly successful trawl: they managed to root out what is apparently the only example of a member of the Oireachtas referring to the sexual life of another member. And just coincidently the TD referred to was gay.

And by the way, the claim that his tweet was celebrating progress on gay rights doesn't hold water. Gay sexual activity was decriminalized in 1993, so what progress is "U can do what u like in bed" in 2020 celebrating?

.

Akesh

I see the FG parliamentary members in here are getting worried about SF. Don't expect the rest of us to have any smypathy for British soldiers illegally invading this island.

Hamsterchops

Akesh wrote: »

Don't expect the rest of us to have any smypathy for British soldiers illegally invading this island.

Yeah, but you see that's a very juvenile attitude to adopt. Imagine if an ex member of ETA now serving in the Spanish government decided to tweet something similar in relation to an ETA attack, the Spanish would go mad, why? because the ETA campaign was illegal, likewise the PIRA campaign was illegal and not sanctioned by the Irish people or our State (against Great Britain and it's territory) as recognised by international law.

Unless of course you don't recognise international boundaries, or laws against terrorism? in which case that's a whole other ball game.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SF were the biggest party in the last election. FF and FG no longer get to say what the views of 'Official Ireland' are.

You need to 'wake up and smell the coffee' here as Michael McDowell says in this mornings papers.

Another person who doesn’t seem to understand the Irish electoral system and that being the biggest party doesn’t mean you represent the majority or that you have a right to be in power.

Ireland2020

blanch152 wrote: »

Another person who doesn’t seem to understand the Irish electoral system and that being the biggest party doesn’t mean you represent the majority or that you have a right to be in power.

Before the next election, RTÉ debates will just be SF and FF with FG allowed into one of them.

Thats the way it was done this year so only fair

timthumbni

Akesh wrote: »

I see the FG parliamentary members in here are getting worried about SF. Don't expect the rest of us to have any smypathy for British soldiers illegally invading this island.

If I posted about the Ira murderers being taken out in Gibraltar would you think that was appropriate? I have no sympathy for those low lives who were about to commit mass murder. Best sometimes to shut your mouth though would you not agree?

And this from an elected person who wants a laughably so called “United” Ireland.

Bass Reeves

Ireland2020 wrote: »

Before the next election, RTÉ debates will just be SF and FF with FG allowed into one of them.

Thats the way it was done this year so only fair

Incorrect. If government goes beyond 30 months Leo or whomever is the FG leader will be toiseach, it would be unusual if the toiseach or leader of the largest party FF wasv excluded from leaders debates.

Amazing amount of shinners that do not understand politics or democracy. Then again this is the party where there leader is selected in secret, only one name put forward to the party faithful. They could be selected by the Army Council for all the general public know.

It still very much an armalite in one had and a ballot paper in the other. But it still looks like the armalite is running the show still

Ireland2020

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Incorrect. If government goes beyond 30 months Leo or whomever is the FG leader will be toiseach, it would be unusual if the toiseach or leader of the largest party FF wasv excluded from leaders debates.

Amazing amount of shinners that do not understand politics or democracy. Then again this is the party where there leader is selected in secret, only one name put forward to the party faithful. They could be selected by the Army Council for all the general public know.

It still very much an armalite in one had and a ballot paper in the other. But it still looks like the armalite is running the show still

RTÉ only had the 2 largest parties debate last time, if its the same this time that will be FF and SF

Eh the FG members wanted Simon Coveney to be the leader by a large majority but Leo is the leader
Not even wanted by his own members

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

I doubt that FG and FF are the only people trawling around opponents' social media posting histories..

In this case it was a particularly successful trawl: they managed to root out what is apparently the only example of a member of the Oireachtas referring to the sexual life of another member. And just coincidently the TD referred to was gay.

And by the way, the claim that his tweet was celebrating progress on gay rights doesn't hold water. Gay sexual activity was decriminalized in 1993, so what progress is "U can do what u like in bed" in 2020 celebrating?

.

I don't think he was referencing Varadkars sexuality.
Like other cases of this I would need to see a pattern of homophobic activity and comment.
This man has a track record of standing for gay rights. So he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Varadakar was speechifying about 'an Ireland without prejudice'. This guy was saying Yippee for that...whaabout workers rights'.

Interesting that it was claimed on RTE that FG have somebody full time trawling Twitter looking for these ambiguous comments.
Dirty politics ahead.

Bass Reeves

Ireland2020 wrote: »

RTÉ only had the 2 largest parties debate last time, if its the same this time that will be FF and SF

Eh the FG members wanted Simon Coveney to be the leader by a large majority but Leo is the leader
Not even wanted by his own members

No they had what the preceived as the two most likely candidates for toiseach as opinion polls changed they included ML.

FG have a weighted voting system in place for party leadership votes. While you may agree or disagree with its structure it is open as transparent compared to the anointed leader process of SF

rdwight

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think he was referencing Varadkars sexuality.
Like other cases of this I would need to see a pattern of homophobic activity and comment.
This man has a track record of standing for gay rights. So he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Varadakar was speechifying about 'an Ireland without prejudice'. This guy was saying Yippee for that...whaabout workers rights'.

Interesting that it was claimed on RTE that FG have somebody full time trawling Twitter looking for these ambiguous comments.
Dirty politics ahead.

Short tweet. Disparaging reference to Leo ("d tory") followed by a reference to the legality of sexual activity. Note that gay sex had been decriminalized 25 years before Stanley found it necessary to mention it.

In fact, without personalizing things too much I believe that gay sex was legal by the time Leo reached the legal age of sexual consent.

But hey, I'm sure you're right Francie.

Ash.J.Williams

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think he was referencing Varadkars sexuality.
Like other cases of this I would need to see a pattern of homophobic activity and comment.
This man has a track record of standing for gay rights. So he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Varadakar was speechifying about 'an Ireland without prejudice'. This guy was saying Yippee for that...whaabout workers rights'.

Interesting that it was claimed on RTE that FG have somebody full time trawling Twitter looking for these ambiguous comments.
Dirty politics ahead.

He was

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

Short tweet. Disparaging reference to Leo ("d tory") followed by a reference to the legality of sexual activity. Note that gay sex had been decriminalized 25 years before Stanley found it necessary to mention it.

In fact, without personalizing things too much I believe that gay sex was legal by the time Leo reached the legal age of sexual consent.

But hey, I'm sure you're right Francie.

So, Stanley was suddenly out of the blue after years of standing for gay rights making a homophobic comment in public on Varadkar.

Equally preposterous.

You are being manipulated, that was why the tweet was chosen. It is sufficiently ambiguous for this back and forth.
So ambiguous I initially thought it was referencing the 'early risers' gaff.

Times like that, I look at his/her track record before opening the trapdoor.