Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

ElisaAtWar

I am not going to address issues with Conor Murray, but I do know since things occurred the guy has lost focus. And I would appreciate if we could move on. This is crippling Irish rugby. Zebo left, I would hope Conor could just leave also rather than see a lame exit. It happened, you need to sort out your own stuff. It's not an Ireland issue.

So Conor, sort yourself out or piss off

joseywhales

Eh?
If they don't want him they won't pick him. Simples.

ionadnapokot

To those who believe - lets just leave leave this to the doctors.
or its - because they are using actual medical data.

This is what Barry O'Driscoll has to say about the HIA's and the 6 day return to play protocols

O’Driscoll believes the current system that allows a concussed professional player to return within a week as “so obviously done for commercial reasons”

“The HIA and return to play protocols have no scientific standing. The six-day return to play came in because the game went professional and there was pressure to get a player back for the next game. It was based on nothing else.

“We are damaging players’ brains again and again,” O’Driscoll states. “And unfortunately, the things that will happen to them won’t happen for five years, some won’t happen for 20 years.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/dr-barry-o-driscoll-believes-rugby-s-concussion-protocols-not-fit-for-purpose-1.4481327

Former Former Former

Of course it is. We all know this and we choose to ignore it.

Several of the current Ireland squad are going to have serious problems beginning in middle age, if not sooner. 100%.

And tbh, I think the IRFU are pretty cavalier about the whole thing.

kilns

Lost Ormond wrote: »

What specifically would you want changed? What specifically do you want Ireland to do? In terms of how they structure their attack etc compared to what they do know.
Murray isnt the problem.

Murray is a huge problem. Our attacks are so slow and predictable because of his inability to get the ball away from the ruck with any sort of speed.

JGP may not be the best but look at the difference he brings in terms of getting the ball away than Murray and how it opens up space and puts defences on the back foot

El_Duderino 09

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Theres a blast from the past!
Burns can't be dumped after 1 bad kick, thats completely correct....
but it is time to bring in Byrne or Healy into the squad and let them at least get up to speed with training methods etc...
we just can't keep saying a decade of the rosary before every game Sexton starts to make sure he gets thru at least 65 minutes

Harry Byrne was an official development player last year. But due to covid, they can’t have additional players. But according to the podcasts I’ve been listening to, he’s been training with then squad anyway. I’m not sure if that means he’s staying in the hotel and training every day or just arriving in some days to train.

Apparently it’s not just uncommon to have additional players train with the squad. joe used to do it all the time but he wouldn’t tell the media. But Harry has experience of being with the squad this year and last year’s 6N.

irelandrover

kilns wrote: »

Murray is a huge problem. Our attacks are so slow and predictable because of his inability to get the ball away from the ruck with any sort of speed.

JGP may not be the best but look at the difference he brings in terms of getting the ball away than Murray and how it opens up space and puts defences on the back foot

I saw Murray get the ball away from rucks quickly at the weekend. He also kicked a few, sniped with a few and in a few cases slowed everything down.

I thought he mixed the game well and had a very good game. However a few passes didnt go to hand the way he wanted and he tends to as slow down the next phase when that happens. Its the big difference i see from 3 years ago.

thomond2006

Lost Ormond wrote: »

What specifically would you want changed? What specifically do you want Ireland to do? In terms of how they structure their attack etc compared to what they do know.
Murray isnt the problem.

There's no point asking.

kilns

irelandrover wrote: »

I saw Murray get the ball away from rucks quickly at the weekend. He also kicked a few, sniped with a few and in a few cases slowed everything down.

I thought he mixed the game well and had a very good game. However a few passes didnt go to hand the way he wanted and he tends to as slow down the next phase when that happens. Its the big difference i see from 3 years ago.

He may have got the ball quick away at times by his standards (from the last few years) but thats not good enough. As I said you compare the speed at which JGP got the ball away and there was no comparison, in Rugby you live and die by quick ball and Murray is slowly killing us

irishbucsfan

Former Former Former wrote: »

Of course it is. We all know this and we choose to ignore it.

Several of the current Ireland squad are going to have serious problems beginning in middle age, if not sooner. 100%.

And tbh, I think the IRFU are pretty cavalier about the whole thing.

I mean if the thinking is that a huge amount of the damage being done is happening mid-week with constant repeated sub-concussive blows then there’s probably no one who should be playing. But there’s no science behind any of that yet, it’s all speculative.

The IRFU will be out of business if they’re getting this wrong anyway

phily2002

Lost Ormond wrote: »

What specifically would you want changed? What specifically do you want Ireland to do? In terms of how they structure their attack etc compared to what they do know.
Murray isnt the problem.

Murray was very poor the weekend. He offers no attacking threat. He missed a couple of tackles, couple of poor box kicks. Gave them the ball for the first try with a pass behind Henderson. Gave them a free play for the second try with a high tackle. Gave them 3 points with his blocking.
If this was McGrath people would be ripping him, yet people still saying Murray played well. He didn't

Louis Friend

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I am not going to address issues with Conor Murray, but I do know since things occurred the guy has lost focus. And I would appreciate if we could move on. This is crippling Irish rugby. Zebo left, I would hope Conor could just leave also rather than see a lame exit. It happened, you need to sort out your own stuff. It's not an Ireland issue.

So Conor, sort yourself out or piss off

What a bizarre post. The Zebo/Murray stuff was in 2015. Conor Murray was the best scrum-half in the world on the 2017 Lions Tour to New Zealand.

CMcsporty

ionadnapokot wrote: »

To those who believe - lets just leave leave this to the doctors.
or its - because they are using actual medical data.

This is what Barry O'Driscoll has to say about the HIA's and the 6 day return to play protocols

O’Driscoll believes the current system that allows a concussed professional player to return within a week as “so obviously done for commercial reasons”

“The HIA and return to play protocols have no scientific standing. The six-day return to play came in because the game went professional and there was pressure to get a player back for the next game. It was based on nothing else.

“We are damaging players’ brains again and again,” O’Driscoll states. “And unfortunately, the things that will happen to them won’t happen for five years, some won’t happen for 20 years.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/dr-barry-o-driscoll-believes-rugby-s-concussion-protocols-not-fit-for-purpose-1.4481327

WR response to O'Driscoll claims in 2017 is pathetic.

“World Rugby, really out of the blue, brought in a new system for the professional player — not for the amateur player, community player or schoolboy player, that was still as per the consensus in Zurich,” he says.

“They decided, that with the professional player, they would, if he showed signs or symptoms of concussion out on the field, take him off and give him a five-minute assessment.

“And if he passed this, he could go back on and play. Not only that, they actually introduced it as an experiment in the world U20 tournament. In other words, they introduced it for the very first time with teenagers.

“That’s where I said I couldn’t accept that at all and that’s why I resigned.”

(World Rugby maintain that the HIA protocols are not contrary to the position agreed in Zurich. “The HIA is based on the SCAT 3, an outcome of Zurich/Berlin, and the Graduated Return To Play protocol was also born from the same forum and was overseen by an independent concussion advisory group,” a spokesperson told The42.)

https://www.the42.ie/dr-barry-odriscoll-concussion-3208236-Feb2017

El_Duderino 09

I really wish I knew what you’re all talking about with Murray’s demons and the Murray/Zebo stuff.

If it can’t be discussion the thread, could someone please PM me?

cantwbr1

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I really wish I knew what you’re all talking about with Murray’s demons and the Murray/Zebo stuff.

If it can’t be discussion the thread, could someone please PM me?

I have heard one of the stories and a suggestion of the other. Neither are rugby related and best left alone even if they are in the public domain

Sabre0001

Thought Murray went alright v Wales. JGP certainly upped the pace, but accuracy also went a little astray and he sniped up a blind alley at least once.

Ireland's game for years has relied on control and Murray has been suited for that. There's talented players in the backline, so hopefully we can find a game plan and personnel to execute that. Perhaps JGP (I'd like to see Casey in the mix too at some stage) and Burns is worth a try to up speed of play. France's new defensive system isn't one that you want to give time to set, it seems.

siltirocker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I really wish I knew what you’re all talking about with Murray’s demons and the Murray/Zebo stuff.

If it can’t be discussion the thread, could someone please PM me?

The antics of young people. Nothing confirmed, which means i) of no consequence, or ii) over exaggerated/fiction.

Not super relevant to Irish Rugby 2021 certainly.

Niallof9

I think he was referring to the other stuff that is complete bs.

With Murray it clearly was an issue with his left arm and neck injuries. You could physically see it was smaller and weaker.

He's been a little better but he's not the same player. His threat around the edge is completely gone.

A physical beating on Sunday will possibly be the much needed break alot of these lads need. It would surely signal the need for a complete reset and rethink. A Scotland 2000 type of moment.

GeordieC

Moving on.

Anyone got insight or thoughts on the expected 23?

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I really wish I knew what you’re all talking about with Murray’s demons and the Murray/Zebo stuff.

If it can’t be discussion the thread, could someone please PM me?

just a bit of tag-team rugby with a dodgy offload.

Niallof9

If we lose this weekend is Farrell in trouble?

thomond2006

Niallof9 wrote: »

If we lose this weekend is Farrell in trouble?

I shouldn't think so. The Welsh loss can be written off due to the red card and in fairness the team played quite well considering.

I think Farrell will be under pressure however if our only win ends up being over Italy. It would add up a very poor 15 months under him.

ClanofLams

Niallof9 wrote: »

If we lose this weekend is Farrell in trouble?

He would need a win against England to save him I think. Maybe he survives if they manage to beat Scotland and Italy away and finish up with two wins but it would be very much on borrowed time.

Former Former Former

Niallof9 wrote: »

If we lose this weekend is Farrell in trouble?

He's in trouble in the sense of having lost 2 from 2 with England still to come and Scotland looking half-decent.

But in the sense of losing his job, no.

Niallof9

I think as has been said if it ends up with Italy being the only win, maybe even Scotland he's gone. Or at least he'll limp on for a while.

I just think he's the wrong man in the wrong time.

In saying that personally i think apart from Dupont France are overrated, its not like facing them back in the day.

DGRulz

The very fact that there's even talk of Farrell being "in trouble" puts paid to the idea of people saying "I don't mind if we lose, I just want to see improvements". We went into the game against Wales with the strange perception amongst some that Farrell and Pivac were doing an equally bad job with their respective teams, which is utter cobblers. Under Farrell Ireland showed very small signs of change in the Autumn and obvious change last week. Pivac's only wins last year were against Italy twice and Georgia and had to call in the old guard and Ireland getting a red card early on to win last week.

Niallof9

DGRulz wrote: »

The very fact that there's even talk of Farrell being "in trouble" puts paid to the idea of people saying "I don't mind if we lose, I just want to see improvements". We went into the game against Wales with the strange perception amongst some that Farrell and Pivac were doing an equally bad job with their respective teams, which is utter cobblers. Under Farrell Ireland showed very small signs of change in the Autumn and obvious change last week. Pivac's only wins last year were against Italy twice and Georgia and had to call in the old guard and Ireland getting a red card early on to win last week.

I wouldn't say Farrell is doing a good job. Its all been very middling. At least finally this tournament will be the making or breaking of it. And a reality check for many still clinging on to 2018. Its the least excited i've ever been for a Six Nations. Obviously the crowds are an issue but i feel Irish rugby at this level is in a serious lull and we're all in a bit of denial about it. Ever since the Japan game imo. I think it rests on this france game. A performance and a win is the only thing that will silence critics like me. And there's worse waiting for him. Horgan, even D'arcy this week. All having a go. I think he's goosed. Having said that we're clearly capable of beating France. Dupont aside i don't see how they are so much better than us man for man.

mun1

I’d go for this starting team on Sunday , which i think have a good chance of beating France if we can match them up front and get good ball to the outside backs. Back 3 Might be a bit dodgy in defence, but worth the risk.

1. Healy
2. Herring
3. Furlong (brilliant when he came on last week)
4. Beirne
5. Ryan
6. Ruddock.
7. VDF
8. Stander
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Larmour
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose
14. Lowe
15. Keenan (find of the season for me).

ClanofLams

Former Former Former wrote: »

He's in trouble in the sense of having lost 2 from 2 with England still to come and Scotland looking half-decent.

But in the sense of losing his job, no.

He would absolutely be under pressure for his position. Maybe they finish with three wins and the pressure would be lifted.

But if they finish with one win, which depending on if Scotland can continue their form, might be the most likely outcome, his position will be untenable.

Dubinusa

I think the IRFU will back Farrell if we show up and compete against England. If we get thumped by both England and France he's going to be on a short leash. I personally think they should back him and give him the opportunity. He took over a squad in disarray and low on confidence after a dismal world cup. He's shown somewhat of a willingness to blood new lads and deepen our depth. Going forward, post 6nations will be crucial for him. If there's a summer tour the results will be key for him. I reckon he's doing OK. Nothing great but I think he can improve our team.