Carlow school issues clothing diktat to female students

Topgear on Dave

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

We weren’t allowed to take our jumpers off in school!

What? Why? Were you naked underneath or something? Wierd.

I was in a mixed sex small town local "tech" and (as far as I remember) the girls could take their jumpers off without comment.

Three was no PE as a subject of course, if it was mentioned at all it was just a free class.

Topgear on Dave

strandroad wrote: »

There's also labia!
Poor vaginas get blamed for everything.

+1 The first day I touched one, I was in the road to hell.:pac:

Quantum Erasure

Gatling wrote: »

I believe the letter originated from America and has slowly been introduced in the UK and here hence the wording , similar applied to dress codes for teaching staff including a reference to gang affiliated tattoos .

But I believe they should impose stricter uniform controls rather than send a letter like that out ,
Saves hassle for all involved

What letter?

Strumms

Walk into any gym, you’ll see females wearing shorts, leggings, vests, t-shirts, whatever is comfortable and suitable to exercise in. Why that option(s) is denied to students in this case is strange. To quite simply ban suitable exercise clothing... hmmm

If the principal is concerned about the possibility of a ‘reaction’ of a teacher to a girl attired in gym clothing, he needs to address a more substantial problem in his school.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

What? Why? Were you naked underneath or something? Wierd.

I was in a mixed sex small town local "tech" and (as far as I remember) the girls could take their jumpers off without comment.

Three was no PE as a subject of course, if it was mentioned at all it was just a free class.

Oh stop, it was ridiculous. Our vice principal was an officious jobsworth (and commanded no respect for that very reason). Listen to this for pettiness: there was also a rule that we couldn’t wear our coats indoors. Not even in the depths of winter in a cold, cold school. One very cold day, the heating was broken and we informed that we were allowed to wear our coats inside. Just before the last class of the day, the vice principal came on the intercom and told us that the heating had been fixed and to take off our coats immediately. This was 40 minutes before the end of the school day. The class would have been over before you’d feel the effects of the heating. I swear to god, an audible groan rose up through out the school. How petty can you get? As far as I recall, the teacher of my class told us to keep our jackets on.

steinbock123

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Think they mean it’s the vulva you would see. The vagina is internal.

Myself and a female friend were sitting in the car having coffee and sandwiches after our walk, when three girls and three boys came out of the nearby shop and stood close to our car eating ice cream cones. They were in the 12 to 14 age bracket. The three girls were wearing leggings that were (as we used to say) “sprayed on”.
My friend remarked on the girls, at how young they were and how provocative their cloths were. You could clearly see their knickers and my friend remarked “ you can see yer’ wans fanny” , which indeed you could, or certainly the outline of it. Call me old fashioned, but when I was a similar age, the girls never dressed like that. Or wore pyjamas to the supermarket for that matter .
When my daughter was 14, I’d have never let her out in such gear.
I can understand the head teacher calling them out on these sort of outfits, but he shouldn’t have said they were distracting the teachers, that’ll only be a rod for his own back.
I know girls especially are very fashion conscious, but there’s a time and a place for everything.

Larbre34

My God the pendantry. We all know what we're talking about.

The school has a uniform. We're talking about PE and after school sports.

Now, I personally sincerely doubt that any male teacher brought this up as an issue. Why? Because of the VERY stigma being discussed all day since this was publicised. Any male staff member in a school, especially with a 2 to 1 female majority staff, is more aware than any other man alive these days, of the need to be absolutely beyond reproach when it comes to appropriate relationships and association with children. Especially professional educators in loco parentis, who are afraid of their lives to even walk alone with a student in case they end up out of sight of other people.

What I'm saying is, even if the sight of a teenage girl in skintight apparel "distracted me", and lets be honest its very possible, its the very last thing I would ever bring up officially as a problem, UNLESS the students were using their clothing to in some way deliberately create uncomfortable or disruptive situations for teachers and other students.

I suspect, and only suspect mind you, is that the mention of male staff being distracted happened accidentally, under pressure perhaps from indignant students, as a throw away remark that became incendiary.

In any case, the way this was handled was a management failing. What got into their heads singling out the female students for this address is absolutely beyond me. It was overblown and entirely inappropriate, when a simple communication to parents reminding them of the existing dress code would have sufficed, if indeed that much was even necessary. The school's Board of Management will have to investigate that sequence of events.

But, I can tell you if I was a male teacher in that school, and I found myself under a glare of suspicion and derision through no fault of my own or failing of my work or responsibility to the kids, I'd be talking to a solicitor. Because someone in authority just ****ed up life for everyone.

Quantum Erasure

steinbock123 wrote: »

My friend remarked on the girls, at how young they were and how provocative their cloths were. You could clearly see their knickers and my friend remarked “ you can see yer’ wans fanny” , which indeed you could, or certainly the outline of it..

I'd be worried about your friend, noticing things like that, something not right there...

/s

applehunter

If I were a male teacher I’d be getting legal advice.

Quantum Erasure

I suspect, and only suspect mind you, is that the mention of male staff being distracted happened accidentally, under pressure perhaps from indignant students, as a throw away remark that became incendiary.

Do we know if it was even said, or is it just an inference someone drew,

Larbre34

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

I'd be worried about your friend, noticing things like that, something not right there...

/s

Female friend he said.

My wife says the same thing to me all the time, even about her own niece wearing sprayed on sportswear at age 15/16. They do show off their underwear and the contours of their lower bodies and I agree with her that its too much for kids that age.

Rubberchikken

Some leggings nowadays are barely better than a pair of tights.
I personally don't care what anyone wears and will defend to the death the right to dress as you please but I'm guessing not everyone thinks like that.

If it's a comment from the principal then it should be passed to the students in the correct manner and an explanation of the proper attire for p.e. explained to all.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

steinbock123 wrote: »

Myself and a female friend were sitting in the car having coffee and sandwiches after our walk, when three girls and three boys came out of the nearby shop and stood close to our car eating ice cream cones. They were in the 12 to 14 age bracket. The three girls were wearing leggings that were (as we used to say) “sprayed on”.
My friend remarked on the girls, at how young they were and how provocative their cloths were. You could clearly see their knickers and my friend remarked “ you can see yer’ wans fanny” , which indeed you could, or certainly the outline of it. Call me old fashioned, but when I was a similar age, the girls never dressed like that. Or wore pyjamas to the supermarket for that matter .
When my daughter was 14, I’d have never let her out in such gear.
I can understand the head teacher calling them out on these sort of outfits, but he shouldn’t have said they were distracting the teachers, that’ll only be a rod for his own back.
I know girls especially are very fashion conscious, but there’s a time and a place for everything.

I agree! I don’t think what they are asking for is unreasonable. I just think the wording is very bad. Whilst there’s the odd pervy teacher (my school had one), the vast, vast majority are nothing of the sort. I bet the teaching staff of that school are not happy at all.

Larbre34

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Do we know if it was even said, or is it just an inference someone drew,

The article in the Carlow Nationalist by Elizabeth Lee says

"FEMALE students in Presentation College, Carlow were told not to wear tight leggings to school as it was “distracting” for their male teachers. Female students from sixth year right down to first year were called out class by class on Friday morning to be told that they shouldn’t wear tight clothing because it was too revealing of their bodies and made their teachers “uncomfortable”."

Take from that what you will, but you'd have to imagine the journo had to verify that key detail from several sources.

Aleece2020

Are some of these clothes inappropriate for their age group? Especially leggings with panels cut out and some parts clearly see-through? Absolutely. I agree that it’s not appropriate for young girls to wear things like that and it shouldn’t be happening.

But by all means them being dressed in revealing or tight clothes should not be a “distraction” (we all know that the word distraction has a much more sinister meaning in the context of this story) to an adult man; especially not one who works with children five days a week. If an adult is getting “distracted” by a child wearing shorts or tight leggings then there’s something wrong with the adult and they shouldn’t be allowed to remain around children.

Whichever male teacher(s) said that have some serious questions to answer. And if none of them said it, I’d be seeking legal advice if I were them because the way the principal has presented this makes it 100% seem like some teacher there is sexually attracted to children.

hynesie08

Question for the ladies in here, can you even buy tracksuit bottoms in Penneys? Or is it all leggings and jeans? Because it's all I've ever seen girls buy in there? Can you get a basic black loose fitting tracksuit bottom?

Quantum Erasure

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Some leggings nowadays are barely better than a pair of tights.
I personally don't care what anyone wears and will defend to the death the right to dress as you please but I'm guessing not everyone thinks like that.

If it's a comment from the principal then it should be passed to the students in the correct manner and an explanation of the proper attire for p.e. explained to all.

I'd say the principal thought he was doing the right thing addressing the girls separately, and not calling them out infront of their male peers...

It's a minefield out there these days

Larbre34

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

I'd say the principal thought he was doing the right thing addressing the girls separately, and not calling them out infront of their male peers...

It's a minefield out there these days

Then he needs investigating by the School's Board of Management, because irrespective of it being a minefield, directing this to the students rather than parents and especially doing it by isolating the female students was a dumbass move. Like honestly, pure bloody stupid and contrary to all good practice. His professional judgement must be seriously questioned.

Aleece2020

hynesie08 wrote: »

Question for the ladies in here, can you even buy tracksuit bottoms in Penneys? Or is it all leggings and jeans? Because it's all I've ever seen girls buy in there? Can you get a basic black loose fitting tracksuit bottom?

I don’t wear leggings personally, so I have not actively looked for them in Penny’s but I have seen them in there.

I wear the smallest size I can get in men’s tracksuit bottoms from Pennys. The ones designed for women that they have are made to be more stylish than functional and it’s not what you want when you’re at home trying to relax.

peekachoo

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I will most likely be wrong on this. (as usual) :pac:

But I'm going to call bull**** on this story for simple reasons.

1. I went through school 25 years ago and not taking your jumper off would have been a joke even in them old days.

2. Most teachers I am friendly with are female, and they are not stupid people, none of them are living in the 1950s


Its social media driven journo clickbait.

I was in an all girls catholic school about ten years ago and we were told not to take our jumpers off during the summer. So I definitely wouldn't be surprised.

Grab All Association

I find myself agreeing with the school here. I can see where the staff might be uncomfortable and I guess it would be to do with child protection issues. Imagine a child up close to you during training and they/you accidentally touch off each other and they accuse you of assault. A profession where you come under a lot more scrutiny (rightly so) in the regards to safety and welfare of children. Just one suggestion of anything inappropriate could be the end to your career.

The way I would’ve handled this if I was a principal would be to introduce some sort of uniformity of sportswear in the school for all students male and female under the guise of inclusion for all nonsense we hear about these days.

JustAThought

Perhaps the clue is in the statement issued by the school : for the comfort and consideration/ pastoral care of ALL students.

My down the road neighbours are not catholic. Their 4 girls NEVER show an inch of flesh other than their hands and faces - not an ankle or colarbone in sight - winter and summer the girls are literally tightly buttoned up to the neck and have full length baggy leggings on under their pretty skirts and dresses. Always.

I see from looking at their website that the school is catholic ethos but accepts students from all religions . I wonder where this really originated? I can’t imagine any male teacher being so stupid as to invite a career ending complaint & garda investigation because he made a complaint that the female childrens PE class turned him on too much.

IMO the complaint is far more likely to have originated elsewhere - & if I was a male teacher in that school I’d be lawyering up & demanding full disclosure because every male teacher in that school is suspect & contaminated until this is cleared up. Presentation Paedophile much Sir?

tabby aspreme

MrMusician18 wrote: »

This was the most ridiculous thing RTE has ever run as as a serious story on the main evening news. If I was a local newspaper editor I'd be embarrassed to have this petty school dispute as a story in my paper yet RTE saw it worthy of a three minute segment on the main national news bulletin.

I see that their online coverage comes replete with a "toxic masculinity" quote... That whole rotten organization needs a complete clear out and needs to focus on real news, not this bollocks.

It was the local PBP councillor that was interviewed on RTE news and came out with the toxic masculinity line, which is not surprising from those gob****es, the Chair of the PA was interviewed on Claire Byrne later, and had very little detail on what was actually said to the students.

skooterblue2

hynesie08 wrote: »

If this is a made up story, someone is an idiot.
If the principal issued the statement without talking to teachers, they can't be trusted to run a bath, never mind a school.

If a teacher actually complained about being distracted by teenagers in leggings, they need to be sacked and the gardai should probably check their hard drive.

And you wonder why men dont want to be teachers anymore? Clue its not just about the pay.

tabby aspreme

KingPizza wrote: »

I'd be curious what is the motivation of people to wear clothes so tight it exposes their genitals. Each to their own, somw people are exhibitonists I suppose.

Some are following fashion trends, set by online influencers and people peddling fitness regimes, back in the 1800s it was the men who wore the tight leggings and makeup, the lads in the Pres in Carlow are going to wear leggings this Friday in support of the girls. should be fun

kippy

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Some leggings nowadays are barely better than a pair of tights.
I personally don't care what anyone wears and will defend to the death the right to dress as you please but I'm guessing not everyone thinks like that.

If it's a comment from the principal then it should be passed to the students in the correct manner and an explanation of the proper attire for p.e. explained to all.

This is a big issue. Some people believe you have the right to dress as you please no matter your age or the environment. This is very obviously s ridiculous position to take...

On this Carlow issue, there's not s whole heap of context or detail to the story but at best it's very poor reporting and at worst it's very poor communication from the school that makes all teachers look bad but at the same time there is not enough context or detail available.

Garibaldi?

Sometimes you see women(of all ages) wearing very tight leggings that are quite transparent with underwear visible underneath. A person's attention is drawn to this sort of outfit because it is so unattractive and inappropriate. You can't help feeling uncomfortable about it. It's a gut reaction. There is no disrespect to the wearer. The clothes simply do not look good to the vast majority of people, male or female. This sort of wardrobe disaster would constitute a distraction in any working environment because it's so unpleasant. To say anything else would ignore the reality of the situation. If men were to wear such clothing that would be just as bad. and as reprehensible. Its just that they generally don't.

skooterblue2

JustAThought wrote: »

Perhaps the clue is in the statement issued by the school : for the comfort and consideration/ pastoral care of ALL students.

My down the road neighbours are not catholic. Their 4 girls NEVER show an inch of flesh other than their hands and faces - not an ankle or colarbone in sight - winter and summer the girls are literally tightly buttoned up to the neck and have full length baggy leggings on under their pretty skirts and dresses. Always.

I see from looking at their website that the school is catholic ethos but accepts students from all religions . I wonder where this really originated? I can’t imagine any male teacher being so stupid as to invite a career ending complaint & garda investigation because he made a complaint that the female childrens PE class turned him on too much.

IMO the complaint is far more likely to have originated elsewhere - & if I was a male teacher in that school I’d be lawyering up & demanding full disclosure because every male teacher in that school is suspect & contaminated until this is cleared up. Presentation Paedophile much Sir?

The whole profession is toxic. It used to be held in high regard, I now regard it as a dumping ground for intelligent people not suitable for the commercial and industrial world.

raspberrypi67

Imagine this made national news...lol...Joke....I know of schools that just say, 'no leggings' end of story....

sydthebeat

It's hilarious that they refer to pastoral care yet target the females for action....