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The Leinster Championship is dead.
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bucketybuck wrote: »Why don't you stop playing hard to get and just tell everybody what facts he is getting wrong?
I have no intention of getting into detail. This thread is about the Leinster Championship and not club sides.0 -
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People don’t support Leinster or munster because they share enormous identity as leinstarians or munsterians.
They support it because Leinster and Munster are sexy, winning teams.
Same with GAA, if you put out a region team, whether people get behind it or not will not depend on “identity”, it will depend on whether the region team has good players, wins matches and has a nice stadium.0 -
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We should start a new movement, when your team is out of the race for Sam, we all back the Dubs.
It's more in everyone's interest that they keep winning so the problem is fixed and they're split.
Sure they're own supporters won't like it, but the other 31 counties will.
Another issue is that the big population counties after Dublin are either split between hurling and football or predominantly hurling - Cork, Galway, Waterford, Limerick.
Funnily enough Mayo probably have the biggest population for a football only county after Dublin.
Removing the funding at this point won't do anything as they could self fund beyond anyone else by a long way.
Nothing will work bar splitting the county.
I remember posting on here after the 2013 AI and saying they were going to dominate and needed to be split and the agreement at that point was minuscule. A lot more have came around to it now. Imagine another 7 years of this. Even the money men will give up, as there wont be much of it.0 -
Hammer Archer wrote: »And it's very difficult to motivate young players to train 5 times a week and put their lives on hold when they see the runaway behemoth that is Dublin at senior level. Most would rather play for their club, travel and have a life.
You're not the first to make this point, so I may as well weigh in now with my own take on it.
I'm pushing 50 years old now, but back when I was a young lad, I had a few years (1992 to '94) on the Wexford senior football panel, although I was never a regular starter.
We played Dublin in the 1992/'93 league and lost by just three points. Then we played them again in the championship in Wexford Park in '93 and genuinely thought we had a chance, but we missed a few scoring chances we should have taken, and lost by four points in the end.
By the way, I got a run myself in the League match, but not in the championship, in case anybody is wondering.
Point is, we normally trained three (or sometimes four) times a week for a team where even though we knew we'd be underdogs against "the big boys", we genuinely thought we'd still have a chance of an upset, and the result shows we weren't too far off it.
But now, I see lads from my own club training for Wexford five nights a week, and it's much tougher training than we had back then too, but for what? Realistically, the best they can hope for is "not to lose by too much" if they pack the defence enough and try to limit the scoring opportunities for Dublin or whoever else.
Even when Carlow played Dublin during that whole "Carlow Rising" thing of a few years ago, their "achievement" was to only be three or four points down for most of the first 45 or 50 minutes, before losing by 12 points in the end.
I've great admiration for the lads in the "weaker counties" who make the commitment to county training today, but I honestly don't know if I'd make that commitment now myself, considering how much things have changed since the days when I got my own chance.0 -
The one that has been edited out. Great to see another Dublin club like you post though. Says it all really.
You are talking bollox. I haven't edited anything out of that post. I'm not sure if a mod can confirm this for me. It's pretty sad when you have to start making things up.
And given that you have accused me of lying twice now but can't point out where, thanks for confirming that my post, as it currently stands, is completely factual0 -
Uncle Pierre wrote: »You're not the first to make this point, so I may as well weigh in now with my own take on it.
I'm pushing 50 years old now, but back when I was a young lad, I had a few years (1992 to '94) on the Wexford senior football panel, although I was never a regular starter.
We played Dublin in the 1992/'93 league and lost by just three points. Then we played them again in the championship in Wexford Park in '93 and genuinely thought we had a chance, but we missed a few scoring chances we should have taken, and lost by four points in the end.
By the way, I got a run myself in the League match, but not in the championship, in case anybody is wondering.
Point is, we normally trained three (or sometimes four) times a week for a team where even though we knew we'd be underdogs against "the big boys", we genuinely thought we'd still have a chance of an upset, and the result shows we weren't too far off it.
But now, I see lads from my own club training for Wexford five nights a week, and it's much tougher training than we had back then too, but for what? Realistically, the best they can hope for is "not to lose by too much" if they pack the defence enough and try to limit the scoring opportunities for Dublin or whoever else.
Even when Carlow played Dublin during that whole "Carlow Rising" thing of a few years ago, their "achievement" was to only be three or four points down for most of the first 45 or 50 minutes, before losing by 12 points in the end.
I've great admiration for the lads in the "weaker counties" who make the commitment to county training today, but I honestly don't know if I'd make that commitment now myself, considering how much things have changed since the days when I got my own chance.
That's the thing - it's a race to the bottom.
Once one team takes it to professional levels of training & fitness and everything else, everyone else has to follow suit if they have any chance of winning.
Many people in smaller counties can't train that often - plenty of people even have to work up in Dublin during the week so can't train together except for weekends. Hard to see how you could compete with teams training together 2/3x a week0 -
Uncle Pierre wrote: »You're not the first to make this point, so I may as well weigh in now with my own take on it.
I'm pushing 50 years old now, but back when I was a young lad, I had a few years (1992 to '94) on the Wexford senior football panel, although I was never a regular starter.
We played Dublin in the 1992/'93 league and lost by just three points. Then we played them again in the championship in Wexford Park in '93 and genuinely thought we had a chance, but we missed a few scoring chances we should have taken, and lost by four points in the end.
By the way, I got a run myself in the League match, but not in the championship, in case anybody is wondering.
Point is, we normally trained three (or sometimes four) times a week for a team where even though we knew we'd be underdogs against "the big boys", we genuinely thought we'd still have a chance of an upset, and the result shows we weren't too far off it.
But now, I see lads from my own club training for Wexford five nights a week, and it's much tougher training than we had back then too, but for what? Realistically, the best they can hope for is "not to lose by too much" if they pack the defence enough and try to limit the scoring opportunities for Dublin or whoever else.
Even when Carlow played Dublin during that whole "Carlow Rising" thing of a few years ago, their "achievement" was to only be three or four points down for most of the first 45 or 50 minutes, before losing by 12 points in the end.
I've great admiration for the lads in the "weaker counties" who make the commitment to county training today, but I honestly don't know if I'd make that commitment now myself, considering how much things have changed since the days when I got my own chance.
Agree 100% which is why the club scene will grow and inter county will lose its relevance. Because players will prefer just to stick with clubs. Corofin already do that in Galway. Plenty of them don't even play county! Wicklow have been like that for years as well club before county. The signs are there as what will happen. The only thing that has to change is the mindset of supporters.
From a purely supporters point of view:
Personally as a Dublin GAA supporter. In football I love the league look forward to it every year (my favourite competition in the GAA inter county Calendar - trips outside Dublin competitive games).
Plus, I really enjoy the Dublin senior football club championship watch the big clashes in the group stages. Really get into it at the QF stages. It is very competitive. I watch my own club at intermediate level as well fell short of senior 2 a few times in the last few years.
I might watch the club finals on TG4 of the big football counties Mayo, Donegal, Kerry, Tyrone. On TG4 to see what is going on any new players and so on.
And I would pay attention to the Munster, Leinster, Ulster, and Connacht club championships onwards. Unfortunately none this year.
I don't really pay any real heed to the Leinster football intercounty championship. Nor do I really pay attention to the Ulster championship, Munster championship or Connacht. I would describe myself as keeping half an eye on it. As it is normally the same teams and it seems like a side show to the 'main event' the AI football Semi Finals. Might get the odd decent game in the Super 8's.
Plus a few dead rubber Super 8's can lead to 'nice day out' in Omagh and a chance to blood young players. Bugler, McDaid and so on. I watched Donegal v Kerry super 8 game as a neutral in CP. Was great entertainment. Tyrone v Cork was good to watch as neutral as well. But it can be a bit of a mix bag at times. As some teams like Kildare, Roscommon, Cork, and Meath are just not really 'Super 8' level. Never with a realistic chance of getting to the AI SF's.
I find the super 8's a bit of a myth as there seems to be really only 7 teams then a bit of a gap, and much of a muchness. Plus there is a gap between Dublin and Kerry and the rest. Kerry have the players I believe, Donegal are pushing hard. Tyrone untapped talent because of a conservative style.. Monaghan astute management, with good players. Mayo are always there or there abouts and have revamped their panel. Galway have the fearsome forwards.
Dublin
Kerry
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Gap
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Donegal
Tyrone
Monaghan
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Gap
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Mayo
Galway
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Gap
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You will note Dublin are the only Leinster team on the list. Kildare barely make it to div1 and do not stay long. I would describe them as a top div 2 side. The same with Meath who spent 13 years or so out of div 1. Plus there is of course the oddest team in inter county football Cork. Whose inhabitants barely know it exists half the time, and then might have a decent one off game now and again.
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The 'Leinster Intercounty Championship' for me really means watching the Dublin hurlers in Leinster, to see can they improve and push on.
I only start getting properly glued into the football intercounty when it reaches the meat as I said. I would still go to Dublin's Leinster football games but it would only be to see if I notice Dublin mistakes creeping in. Or a player who is dipping slightly who should be replaced by another option.
I wouldn't go to Leinster Dublin inter county games for 'entertainment'. It would be more to see how the Dublin squad are faring and whether there are any changes tactically. Others describe it as watching the 'journey' all the way.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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Mod: ArielAtom, nothing was edited from StupidLikeAFox's original post, either by them or by a mod.
If you feel like part of their post is inaccurate, then please feel free to counter their points.0 -
Looking more closely at my previous post regarding Kildare and Meath in Leinster 2010-2020
It is fairly eye opening when you at it trough the prism of shock defeats Meath and Kildare suffered in those years.
It is all the more stark when you look at it through the prism of population.
2010
Leinster Championship
Kildare: beaten by Louth by 7 points in the Leinster QF
Population
Kildare: 222,504
Louth: 128, 884
2012 - 2014
Leinster Championships
Meath and Kildare defeat each other
Population
Meath: 195, 444
Kildare: 222,504
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2015
Leinster Championship
Meath lose to Westmeath
Population
Meath: 195,444
Westmeath: 88,700
--
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2016
Leinster Senior Football Championship
Kildare
Scraping by Wicklow in the QF's and losing v Westmeath in the SF
Population:
Wicklow: 142,425
Kildare: 222,504
Westmeath: 88,700
(Meath 195, 444 lost to Derry in the qualifiers population 107,877. Many of whose population would not mind if the GAA would not exist)
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2018
Leinster football championship
Meath
Shocked by Longford in the Leinster QF by 2 points
Kildare
Shocked by Carlow in the QF by 7 points
Population:
Meath: 195,444
Longford: 40,873
Kildare: 222,504
Carlow: 56,932
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2019
Leinster football championship
Kildare
Snuck by Wicklow by 1 point
Taken to a replay by Longford winning by 11
Population:
Kildare: 222,504
Wicklow: 142,425
Longford: 40,873
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So by my reckoning that is at least 5 times in the last 10 Leinster Championships where either Kildare or Meath, have been shocked by inferior footballing opponents. A 50% loss rate that should not occur that often. Given Kildare's and Meath's resources v the other Leinster counties excluding Dublin.
If you include Kildare's 2019 draw v Longford and near upset by Wicklow that is 7 times in the last 10 Leinster championships.
In my view definite questions need to be asked, because judging by many arguments population automatically leads to success.
And how come Meath and Kildare fell so far so fast relative to these smaller (less traditional) counties?
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Turning to the Dublin club championship there are areas in Dublin with massive catchment areas who are only served by one main club.
Plus they are underachieving in the Dublin championship if you use population as an indicator for success.
Finglas, has a bigger population than Leitrim, has only one GAA club, Erins Isle. Clondalkin, with a population of nearly 50,000 also has only one club, Round Towers, Jim Gavin's club. Neither club has competed at the top level of Dublin GAA for many years.
It also shows Dublin have too few clubs in some areas and too many in others.
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It will be interesting how the GAA's East Leinster strategy/project works with counties like Kildare and Meath
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/15m-gaa-funding-boost-for-east-leinster-project-34934104.html
https://leinstergaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/2019/11/Leinster-GAA-Convention-Report-2018.pdf
http://kildaregaa.ie/wp-content/uplo...-2019-2023.pdf
When funding is increased to other counties - the question is will they have the people in place, management, players, admin to take advantage of it?
I wait with bated breath.....Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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StupidLikeAFox wrote: »Leaving out other advantage like Croker, private sponsorship etc, I think its worth looking at the significant advantage handed to Dublin by the central organisation in terms of the development funding and the structure they put in place. The starting 15 on the Dublin team last week came from 10 different clubs. Each and every one of those clubs have a GAA subsidised, full-time officer employed by their club. Some of the bigger clubs have self-funded additional professional coaches and I think Ballyboden has a full time administrator to organise the logistics of training, matches etc for their huge membership.
It is no doubt required given the scale of these clubs, but these are the richest clubs, from the richest area in the country, and the GAA is handing out subsidies way over and above what other counties have available to them. For example, if my local club here somehow got the money together for half a GDOs salary (which would be impossible without the membership and sponsorship available to a club like Ballyboden) we still wouldn't be entitled to a semi-funded GDO as this is a Dublin only scheme, and part of the plan that central GAA put in place to save the GAA in Dublin
You end up in a scenario that the richest area is getting the most targeted support from the GAA HQ. Meanwhile smaller, less successful counties have 1 or 2 development officers per county. They are spreading their time between many clubs across a wide geographical area. So when you compare the 2 starting lineups from the Leinster final - which group of players do you think got the most contact time with full time, professional coaches?
Dublin and the GAA have no doubt created a great structure in the capital, but I think its about time they realised the same resources need to be expanded to counties that need it. Ive no idea how its even up for debate that the richest county should get the most targeted support in terms of both finance and coaching resources.
Apologies, I was trying to read off a phone earlier. The highlighted part is the untruth. Quite simply the general manager is a part time role who deals with the mundane tasks of paying rents, taxes and the general upkeep of the clubs facilities. There is not a person who organises the logistics of training, matches etc for their huge membership. That is done by each Mentor with respect to their individual group. I apologise unreservedly for accusing you of lying. You are talking bollox though!!!0 -
It’s funny that people are so obsessed with showing Dublin’s perceived advantages or Meath’s or Kildare’s perceived underperforming etc etc.
In the end they don’t matter.
What matters is the GAA’s revenue will suffer so they will eventually change the Leinster championship’s format.
The GAA care not for fair competitions, they care about their revenue streams.0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »Looking more closely at my previous post regarding Kildare and Meath in Leinster 2010-2020
It is fairly eye opening when you at it trough the prism of shock defeats Meath and Kildare suffered in those years.
It is all the more stark when you look at it through the prism of population.
2010
Leinster Championship
Kildare: beaten by Louth by 7 points in the Leinster QF
Population
Kildare: 222,504
Louth: 128, 884
2012 - 2014
Leinster Championships
Meath and Kildare defeat each other
Population
Meath: 195, 444
Kildare: 222,504
--
--
2015
Leinster Championship
Meath lose to Westmeath
Population
Meath: 195,444
Westmeath: 88,700
--
--
2016
Leinster Senior Football Championship
Kildare
Scraping by Wicklow in the QF's and losing v Westmeath in the SF
Population:
Wicklow: 142,425
Kildare: 222,504
Westmeath: 88,700
(Meath 195, 444 lost to Derry in the qualifiers population 107,877. Many of whose population would not mind if the GAA would not exist)
--
--
2018
Leinster football championship
Meath
Shocked by Longford in the Leinster QF by 2 points
Kildare
Shocked by Carlow in the QF by 7 points
Population:
Meath: 195,444
Longford: 40,873
Kildare: 222,504
Carlow: 56,932
--
--
2019
Leinster football championship
Kildare
Snuck by Wicklow by 1 point
Taken to a replay by Longford winning by 11
Population:
Kildare: 222,504
Wicklow: 142,425
Longford: 40,873
--
--
So by my reckoning that is at least 5 times in the last 10 Leinster Championships where either Kildare or Meath, have been shocked by inferior footballing opponents. A 50% loss rate that should not occur that often. Given Kildare's and Meath's resources v the other Leinster counties excluding Dublin.
If you include Kildare's 2019 draw v Longford and near upset by Wicklow that is 7 times in the last 10 Leinster championships.
In my view definite questions need to be asked, because judging by many arguments population automatically leads to success.
And how come Meath and Kildare fell so far so fast relative to these smaller counties?
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Turning to the Dublin club championship there are areas in Dublin with massive catchment areas who are only served by one main club.
Plus they are underachieving in the Dublin championship if you use population as an indicator for success.
Finglas, has a bigger population than Leitrim, has only one GAA club, Erins Isle. Clondalkin, with a population of nearly 50,000 also has only one club, Round Towers, Jim Gavin's club. Neither club has competed at the top level of Dublin GAA for many years.
It also shows Dublin have too few clubs in some areas and too many in others.
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--
It will be interesting how the GAA's East Leinster strategy/project works with counties like Kildare and Meath
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/15m-gaa-funding-boost-for-east-leinster-project-34934104.html
https://leinstergaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/2019/11/Leinster-GAA-Convention-Report-2018.pdf
http://kildaregaa.ie/wp-content/uplo...-2019-2023.pdf
When funding is increased to other counties - the question is will they have the people in place, management, players, admin to take advantage of it?
I wait with bated breath.....
Indeed the sign of a good healthy championship where the various amateur teams play each other and underdogs can get results it'd be great stuff if you took the multi million euro professional Dubs out of it. Isn't it wonderful that despite population advantage that Meath and Kildare don't just steamroll over all the other counties I wonder what advantage other than population that Dublin have which is responsible for the farcical nature of the Leinster championship? €€€€0 -
I won’t pretend to know much about the running of the GAA, I was a casual fan years ago when Kildare were decent and you would get a few trips to Croke Park and a session out of it..
Reading this thread is quite telling, I would be of the opinion that the Dubs are having their time now and handicapping them in any way whatsoever like a north south split shouldn’t even be considered.
I don’t think that any county, club or area should receive a disproportionate amount of funding from the Gaa. (If that is the case with Dublin)
Surely it can’t be the case that the county that is most populated, brings in the most sponsorship money and are totally and completely dominating on the field are receiving vastly more funding than everyone else from the GAA itself??
If this is the case, surely the people that make these decisions for the GAA can see there’s something wrong here??
And before the replies come about Kildare and Meath underperforming that has nothing to do with it whatsoever.
Bottom line is Dublin should not be punished for winning but they certainly shouldn’t be helped financially more than other counties.. surely to god everyone agrees with that?0 -
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I won’t pretend to know much about the running of the GAA, I was a casual fan years ago when Kildare were decent and you would get a few trips to Croke Park and a session out of it..
Reading this thread is quite telling, I would be of the opinion that the Dubs are having their time now and handicapping them in any way whatsoever like a north south split shouldn’t even be considered.
I don’t think that any county, club or area should receive a disproportionate amount of funding from the Gaa. (If that is the case with Dublin)
Surely it can’t be the case that the county that is most populated, brings in the most sponsorship money and are totally and completely dominating on the field are receiving vastly more funding than everyone else from the GAA itself??
If this is the case, surely the people that make these decisions for the GAA can see there’s something wrong here??
And before the replies come about Kildare and Meath underperforming that has nothing to do with it whatsoever.
Bottom line is Dublin should not be punished for winning but they certainly shouldn’t be helped financially more than other counties.. surely to god everyone agrees with that?
I think football in Leinster will be decline even more if their domination continues. It's like Ciaran Whelan said. The other counties in Leinster are psychologically broken.0 -
Its really not....
The first three points are essentially the same
Cost to run a club - It's not considerably higher for those with their own playing pitches. Fair enough where they need to spend money on renting pitches but that is done and paid for by their own membership and its fair enough then that the cost for a 6 year old in Dublin is 10 times that of a 6 year old in a small club down the country. In addition these "Super" clubs have in most cases players from outside their "catchment" area. Again - this is not for the GAA nationally to finance. Its not really a relevant point.5. Investment in People
........that is available to every county, operated in most but without yet the kind of impact which it has had in Dublin....
This ignores the central tenet of the argument which is that the money given to Dublin for this very purpose is what people disagree with.6. The Burning Impact of Competition
Dublin GAA’s strength lies in the depth of competition it provides.
Again that's not refuting the central issues
Again that's not an issue - I enjoy watching McCaffrey and Kilkenny in particular - two of the best players I've every seen. Dublin are top dogs at the moment and dominating - Its up to other counties to up their game . . .7. 15 Vs 15
Sport is competitive...............teams come and go....
The commercial support is one thing but given that they can stand on their own two feet they should be getting less financial support than other counties - not more.8. It’s unfair that Dublin gets so much commercial support
.........Dublin teams still have to fundraise in order to get the gear the players want. Sometimes that comes down to exactly the same kind of quiz night in a draughty hall in the dead of winter that everyone else does. ..............9. Leadership
Talent on the pitch can only fulfil its full potential if it is led well. ....
Again people aren't disagreeing that theres good leadership. It is a perfect storm. But if the mentioned names (Farrell/Gilroy/Bohan/Gavin) were to fulfil the same roles in Kildare and Meath - how much success would they enjoy? And for them to be considered a great manager they surely will have to do it elsewhere just like Harte is now trying to do and Mick O Dwyer did in several counties.
And again - that's not the issue.10. Alternatives
How many players never get to wear the colours because the competition for places on a team of 15 is simply more intense in the city of 1,345,402.
If the long-mooted ‘split’ was to happen and Dublin became two, both still be more populous than any other county in the country so if that doesn’t work do you go to four? North, South, West and Coast has a geographic logic and that would make the four counties less in population than Cork and Down as well.
That won’t be enough so let’s double the number again and create eight units in Dublin. Then it would be 12, 13, 14 and 15 in terms of size. Still 20,000 more than Kerry and 40,000 more than.
Or maybe let’s let history do its work and see where the next rivals will come from. For come they will. So long as it is 15 vs 15 on the pitch.
Maybe the current county system has to be changed. But if Dublin is split then it should be for no other reason than to give more inter county playing opportunities to players.
All in all the article doesn't address the issue - Dublin getting given a huge financial backing by the GAA.0 -
Usual insulting nonsense other teams need to volunteer harder we deserve all our extra money even though it's not a factor blah blah blah0 -
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gormdubhgorm wrote: »Looking more closely at my previous post regarding Kildare and Meath in Leinster 2010-2020
It is fairly eye opening when you at it trough the prism of shock defeats Meath and Kildare suffered in those years.
It is all the more stark when you look at it through the prism of population.
2010
Leinster Championship
Kildare: beaten by Louth by 7 points in the Leinster QF
Population
Kildare: 222,504
Louth: 128, 884
2012 - 2014
Leinster Championships
Meath and Kildare defeat each other
Population
Meath: 195, 444
Kildare: 222,504
--
--
2015
Leinster Championship
Meath lose to Westmeath
Population
Meath: 195,444
Westmeath: 88,700
--
--
2016
Leinster Senior Football Championship
Kildare
Scraping by Wicklow in the QF's and losing v Westmeath in the SF
Population:
Wicklow: 142,425
Kildare: 222,504
Westmeath: 88,700
(Meath 195, 444 lost to Derry in the qualifiers population 107,877. Many of whose population would not mind if the GAA would not exist)
--
--
2018
Leinster football championship
Meath
Shocked by Longford in the Leinster QF by 2 points
Kildare
Shocked by Carlow in the QF by 7 points
Population:
Meath: 195,444
Longford: 40,873
Kildare: 222,504
Carlow: 56,932
--
--
2019
Leinster football championship
Kildare
Snuck by Wicklow by 1 point
Taken to a replay by Longford winning by 11
Population:
Kildare: 222,504
Wicklow: 142,425
Longford: 40,873
--
--
So by my reckoning that is at least 5 times in the last 10 Leinster Championships where either Kildare or Meath, have been shocked by inferior footballing opponents. A 50% loss rate that should not occur that often. Given Kildare's and Meath's resources v the other Leinster counties excluding Dublin.
If you include Kildare's 2019 draw v Longford and near upset by Wicklow that is 7 times in the last 10 Leinster championships.
In my view definite questions need to be asked, because judging by many arguments population automatically leads to success.
And how come Meath and Kildare fell so far so fast relative to these smaller (less traditional) counties?
--
--
Turning to the Dublin club championship there are areas in Dublin with massive catchment areas who are only served by one main club.
Plus they are underachieving in the Dublin championship if you use population as an indicator for success.
Finglas, has a bigger population than Leitrim, has only one GAA club, Erins Isle. Clondalkin, with a population of nearly 50,000 also has only one club, Round Towers, Jim Gavin's club. Neither club has competed at the top level of Dublin GAA for many years.
It also shows Dublin have too few clubs in some areas and too many in others.
--
--
It will be interesting how the GAA's East Leinster strategy/project works with counties like Kildare and Meath
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/15m-gaa-funding-boost-for-east-leinster-project-34934104.html
https://leinstergaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/2019/11/Leinster-GAA-Convention-Report-2018.pdf
http://kildaregaa.ie/wp-content/uplo...-2019-2023.pdf
When funding is increased to other counties - the question is will they have the people in place, management, players, admin to take advantage of it?
I wait with bated breath.....
Population doesnt gurantee sucess. Population gurantees potential but it does not gurantee sucess. Population gurantees nothing. Actually if you look at many counties with big population many have suffered with levels of underachievement.
Just regards Meath were highly sucessful GAA county from 1930 to 2010. In all those decades the top 5 most consistent sucessful counties in every decade in 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s and 00s were Kerry Dublin Galway M Cork and Meath. Which county had smallest pop, it was Meath. When you look at All Ireland winners from 1960 to 2010 the two counties with the smallest population were Offaly with just under 100000. Meath were just over 100000. Kerry Dublin Cork Galway Down Derry Donegal all had bigger populations then Meath at that time. Mayo had a bigger population then Meath in 1996. Donegal had a bigger population then Meath in the 90s. When Meath went toe to toe with Dublin for 80 years and had huge periods of sucess over Dublin, Meath was a very rural midlands county with an average population. Meath overachieved in many cases.
Meath population in 1949 when they first won Sam was 66000 approx Dublins population was just under 700000 approx in late 40s. Meath were beating Dublin every year in late 40s and early 50s.
Population of Counties in late 40s
Dublin 693000 approx
Cork 34300 approx
Galway 165000 approx
Mayo 148000 approx
Limerick 142000 approx
Donegal 136000 approx
Kerry 133000 approx
Wexford 91000 approx
Tipp 77000 approx
Waterford 76000 approx
Meath 66000 approx
Meath won 3rd All Ireland in mid 60s population below are counties pop in mid 60s
Ireland County Pop 1966 ( I dont have 6 counties but Down and Antrim would have counties with big pop at the time)
1966 Population in Counties
1 Dublin 795000 approx
2 Cork 339000 approx
3 Galway 148000 approx
4 limerick 137000 approx
5 Kerry 116000 approx
6 Mayo 115000 approx
7 Donegal 108000 approx
8 Wexford 83000 approx
9 Waterford 73000 approx
10 Tippearey 69000 approx
11 Louth 69000 approx
12 Meath 67000 approx
13 kildare 66000 approx
Meaths population when Sean Boylan took over was 95000 and increased to 103000 by late 80s. When Meath won Sam in late 80s counties population was 103000 approx in late 80s Dubs was over a million.
Population of Some counties 1996
Dublin 1020000 approx
Cork 412000 approx
Galway 178000
Limerick 164000 approx
Donegal 129000 aporox
Kerry 124000 approx
Mayo 115000 approx
Meath 103000 approx
Meath had an average population from 1930 to 2010. In that period only kerry and Dublin were more sucessful then Meath in that period when Meath won 7 All Irelands, 20 leinster titles and 7 national league div 1 titles with 6 different teams.
Meath won 7 All Irelands in that period, Dubs won 9.
Dubs won 1 All Ireland in 40s, Meath won 1 All Ireland in 50s,
Dubs on 1 All Ireland in 50s, Meath won 1 All Ireland in 50s,
Dubs won 1 All Ireland in 60s, Meath won 1 All Ireland in 60s,
Dubs won 3 All Ireland in 70s, Meath won 0 All Ireland in 70s,
Dublin won 1 All Ireland in 80s, Meath won 2 All Ireland in 80s,
Dublin won 1 All Ireland in 90s, Meath won 2 All Irelands in 90s,
Dubs won 0 All Irelands in 00s, Meath won 0 All Ireland in 00s.
So Meath went toe to toe with Dublin for 80 years and had period of dominance over Dublin 40s 50s 60s 80s and 90s which no other county has ever had. Meath had an average rural pop at the time. And along with Offaly ( 71 72 82 ) and Cavan ( 46 47 52 ) were the counties with lowest pop who Sam from 1930 to 2010. Dubs have a population of just under 800000 in those decades 50s 60s and Meath pop was 66000 yet Meath had a massive rivalry with the Dubs. It was the most unequal rivalry in Irish sport. Cork and kerry are similar enough counties and so are Tipp and kilkenny and so are Galway and Mayo and so are Armagh and Tyrone. All grest gaa rivals. Meath and Dublin was the most unequal rivalry in Irish sport. Meath had a small population compared to the Dubs who were the wealthiest county in Ireland. Meath was sparsely rural average pop with very few jobs very few factories in the county other then farming up to 2000.
Meath were overachieving back then. Meath population has now doubled in 20 years to 195000 approx and Kildsres pop has also doubled in 20 year to over 220000 approx. Both are underacheiving now. There are other examples of counties with big pop who underachieve.
Other examples
Wicklow Wickow has a big population a wealthy county with strong gaa clubs but Wicklow have never won leinster title. Meath and kildare pop growth is similar Wicklw all 3 counties have huge pop areas currently which our kind of like greater Dublin suburbia.
Antrim Yes half pop not interested but still Antrim has big population. Has the second biggest city on island. Strong clubs, but Antrim havent won Ulster title in near 80 years
Limerick Big population Limerick football hasnt won a Munster title or beatng kerry in championship for newr 130 years since 1890s. Yes limerick hurling has been strong in last 4 years. But from 1940 to 2015 limerick hurling underachieved. In 75 years Limerick won 2 All Irelands in 1940 and 1973. Limerick won All Ireland every 40 or 50 years in hurling. In the same period that limerick won 2 hurling All Ireland kilkenny won 24 All Irelands and Cork won 19 All Irelands and Tipp won 14 All Irelands.
Kildare has a big population. In top 5 counties for registered players but have always underachievd. Kildare has won 4 leinsters in last 80 years, reached 2 All Irelands finals in 90 years and never won minor All Ireland or national keague div 1 title and beaten Dubs in 1 leinster final in 90 years.
Dubs are another example of underachieving with big population up to 2010. Dubs won their first 15 All Irelands with kerry Mayo men, country lads. Every Dublin All Ireland team up to 1950s had 12 or 13 country lads and 2 or 3 token Dubs. 1958 is the first All Ireland Dublin won with Dublin players. Up to 2010 Dubs underachieved. Compare record with kerry
All Irelands won 1930 to 2010
In 30s Dubs won 0 kerry won 5
In 40s Dubs won 1 kerry won 2
In 50s Dubs won 1 kerry won 3
In 60s Dubs won 1 kerry won 2
In 70s Dubs won 3 kerry won 4
In 80s Dubs won 1 kerry won 5
In 90s Dubs won 1 kerry won 1
In 00s Dubs won 0 kerry won 5
Other examples of counties with big populations but underacheiving recently would be Down. Down have great tradition with two great teams one in 60s another great team in early 90s. In between in 70s and 80s Down struggled and Down havent won an Ulster title in 26 years.
Population doesnt gurantee sucess. There is no gurantee that Meath or kildare population growth will ever help both to be sucessful. Look at Wickow or Antrim.or limerick football or the Dubs before 2011. The question of population related to sucess is much complicated then people think.0 -
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-20267882.html
Article about Farrell when he was with the GPA.The former Dublin fans’ favourite believes it is far too early to make a judgement call on that and warned there was actually a certain amount of “scaremongering” going on given the fact Dublin have still won just two Sam Maguires since 1995.0 -
Indeed the sign of a good healthy championship where the various amateur teams play each other and underdogs can get results it'd be great stuff if you took the multi million euro professional Dubs out of it. Isn't it wonderful that despite population advantage that Meath and Kildare don't just steamroll over all the other counties I wonder what advantage other than population that Dublin have which is responsible for the farcical nature of the Leinster championship? €€€€
Is it not more a sign of how far Meath and Kildare have fallen? It is there in black and white 5 losses against weak Leinster teams 2010-2019 and another 3/4 narrow wins/results.
Kildare and Meath are counties in much better financial health than Louth, Wicklow, Longford, Carlow et al.
Do you really want me to analyse the results Kildare and Meath got in thier 'glory years' against the minnows of Leinster?
That Kildare and Meath have let thier standards slip is should be self-evident. Even to the most biased Royal or Lillywhite. Maybe the truth hurts easier to solely blame Dublin to detract attention?
The minnows of Leinster Meath and Kildare have flopped against those minnows 5 times in 10 Championships. But the minnows have less population and less €€€€€€€ so what was the issue?
Other variables perhaps? Poor management, tactics, over confidence ?Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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gormdubhgorm wrote: »Looking more closely at my previous post regarding Kildare and Meath in Leinster 2010-2020
It is fairly eye opening when you at it trough the prism of shock defeats Meath and Kildare suffered in those years.
It is all the more stark when you look at it through the prism of population.
2010
Leinster Championship
Kildare: beaten by Louth by 7 points in the Leinster QF
Population
Kildare: 222,504
Louth: 128, 884
2012 - 2014
Leinster Championships
Meath and Kildare defeat each other
Population
Meath: 195, 444
Kildare: 222,504
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2015
Leinster Championship
Meath lose to Westmeath
Population
Meath: 195,444
Westmeath: 88,700
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--
2016
Leinster Senior Football Championship
Kildare
Scraping by Wicklow in the QF's and losing v Westmeath in the SF
Population:
Wicklow: 142,425
Kildare: 222,504
Westmeath: 88,700
(Meath 195, 444 lost to Derry in the qualifiers population 107,877. Many of whose population would not mind if the GAA would not exist)
--
--
2018
Leinster football championship
Meath
Shocked by Longford in the Leinster QF by 2 points
Kildare
Shocked by Carlow in the QF by 7 points
Population:
Meath: 195,444
Longford: 40,873
Kildare: 222,504
Carlow: 56,932
--
--
2019
Leinster football championship
Kildare
Snuck by Wicklow by 1 point
Taken to a replay by Longford winning by 11
Population:
Kildare: 222,504
Wicklow: 142,425
Longford: 40,873
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So by my reckoning that is at least 5 times in the last 10 Leinster Championships where either Kildare or Meath, have been shocked by inferior footballing opponents. A 50% loss rate that should not occur that often. Given Kildare's and Meath's resources v the other Leinster counties excluding Dublin.
If you include Kildare's 2019 draw v Longford and near upset by Wicklow that is 7 times in the last 10 Leinster championships.
In my view definite questions need to be asked, because judging by many arguments population automatically leads to success.
And how come Meath and Kildare fell so far so fast relative to these smaller (less traditional) counties?
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Turning to the Dublin club championship there are areas in Dublin with massive catchment areas who are only served by one main club.
Plus they are underachieving in the Dublin championship if you use population as an indicator for success.
Finglas, has a bigger population than Leitrim, has only one GAA club, Erins Isle. Clondalkin, with a population of nearly 50,000 also has only one club, Round Towers, Jim Gavin's club. Neither club has competed at the top level of Dublin GAA for many years.
It also shows Dublin have too few clubs in some areas and too many in others.
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It will be interesting how the GAA's East Leinster strategy/project works with counties like Kildare and Meath
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/15m-gaa-funding-boost-for-east-leinster-project-34934104.html
https://leinstergaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/2019/11/Leinster-GAA-Convention-Report-2018.pdf
http://kildaregaa.ie/wp-content/uplo...-2019-2023.pdf
When funding is increased to other counties - the question is will they have the people in place, management, players, admin to take advantage of it?
I wait with bated breath.....
Yes Meath and kildare had a poor decade. But they belong to a group of strong counties that have had a dreadful recent era.
1 Meath The last decade is Meath worst in 100 years since 1920. First decade since 1920s Meath didnt reach an All Ireland final
2 kildare The last decade along with 1980s is kildares worst decade in 120 years since 1890s. Kildare reached 1 leinster final in the last decade
3 Cork The last few years has been Corks worst era in 70 years since 1950s. First time since Tipp and Clare are beatng Cork in competitive games since 50s. First time Cork were in div 3 since 50s and first time Cork were outside top 6 counties since 1950s and first time were uncompetitive v kerry since 50s.
4 Galway The last decade is Galways worst decade in 110 years since 1900s. Its first decade Galway didnt reach an All Irelad final since 1900s.
5 Armagh The last decade was Armagh worst decade or era in 50 years since 1960s. Armagh were 3 years in div 3 and didnt win an Ulster championahip match in 4 years in the last decade. The last time Armagh were in div 3 and didnt win an Ulster championship match in 4 years was 1966 1967 1968 1969. The last decade was first decade since 1960s Armagh didnt win an Ulster title. Armagh won Ulster titles in 70s 80s 90s and 00s.
6 Derry The last decade was Derrys worst decade or era in 50 years since 1960s. Derry didnt win an Ulster title in the last 2 decades. Derrry won Ulster titles in 50s 70s 80s 90s and 00s. Derry were in div 4 in the last decade. The last time Derry was in Div 4 was 1960s.
7 Offaly. The last decade or era was Offalys worst decade in 70 years since 1950s. The last decade was the first decade Offaly didnt reach leinster final in 70 years. Offaly reached Leinster finals in 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s. The last decade was the first decade in 70 years Offaly didnt play in div 1
8 Laois The last decade or era was Laois worst in 50 years since 1960s. Laois were in div 4 in the last decade laois werent in div 4 since 1960s.
9 Down The last decade was Downs worst decade or era in 70 years since 1950s. Down didnt win an Ulster title and were in div 3 and in the bottom 3 teams in Ulster in the last decade. The last time that happened was in 1950s.
So a whole group of strong counties have reached low points in the last decade they havent done in generations. In a recent 20 year period the above counties won 10 All Irelands in 20 years between 1990 to 2010. But in this decade they have slumped to lows not seen in generations. One of the reasons is players are leaving panels or best footballers are not willing to play inter county in these above counties. A survey done by GAA and university last year talked about a gaa inter county player drain. Derry recently dropped to div 4. In the 3 previous seasons before they relegated to duv 4 in 3 seasons in a row Derry were losing 19 players every season. In 3 seasons in a row 19 players each year were leaving the Derry panel. Cork were releagted to div 3. 17 players left the Cork panel 2 years in a row beforehand. They were on the panel and left the following season. Kevin Walsh said in his first two seasons as Galway manager over 40 players left the panel or refused to join up with the panel, had no interest in playing for Galway. Before Meath got to div 1, Meath were losing 15 players every year, players were leaving the panel. Are the best players in Meath playing for Meath? no. There are many cases of Andy McEntee calling up players to the panel but players refusing to join the panel. I know of 5 goalkeepers who all turned down the chance to join Meath senior panel. When Meath played kildare last year for the first time since 2017 , there was 19 players who played for Meath v kildare in 2017 in league and championship who were no longer on the Meath panel when Meath played kildare in last years league. When counties play div 2 or 3 or 4 football they could lose ten plus panel players every year.0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »Is it not more a sign of how far Meath and Kildare have fallen? It is there in black and white 5 losses against weak Leinster teams 2010-2019 and another 3/4 narrow wins/results.
Kildare and Meath are counties in much better financial health than Louth, Wicklow, Longford, Carlow et al.
Do you really want me to analyse the results Kildare and Meath got in thier 'glory years' against the minnows of Leinster?
That Kildare and Meath have let thier standards slip is should be self-evident. Even to the most biased Royal or Lillywhite. Maybe the truth hurts easier to solely blame Dublin to detract attention?
The minnows of Leinster Meath and Kildare have flopped against those minnows 5 times in 10 Championships. But the minnows have less population and less €€€€€€€ so what was the issue?
Other variables perhaps? Poor management, tactics, over confidence ?
Not trying to sound harsh but in my opinion you are totally missing the point.
Are Dublin receiving massive amounts of funding from the GAA compared to all other counties in Leinster? If so, why? They are dominating Leinster so much that it’s boring, people don’t want to watch it because it’s so one sided yet they are still being favoured by the GAA.
Now, if the GAA change their funding structure to a fair one and Dublin continue to dominate then I say tough! It is what it is, they are just the best team and people will have nothing to complain about.0 -
Not trying to sound harsh but in my opinion you are totally missing the point.
Are Dublin receiving massive amounts of funding from the GAA compared to all other counties in Leinster? If so, why? They are dominating Leinster so much that it’s boring, people don’t want to watch it because it’s so one sided yet they are still being favoured by the GAA.
Now, if the GAA change their funding structure to a fair one and Dublin continue to dominate then I say tough! It is what it is, they are just the best team and people will have nothing to complain about.
I am not missing the point. Rather I am looking at the whole picture. Former Leinster greats Kildare and Meath have let thier standards slip. Shown against the minnows of Leinster not only Dublin.
Which is not Dublin's fault - but Kildare and Meath's.
True, the financial investment for Dublin has helped them. It was done because there was fear the GAA would be lost in Dublin. To rugby and soccer. It would have been a disaster for the GAA. About a third of Leinster lost and a great GAA 'cash cow' for other counties (particularly the Leinster council) would have been gone.
But this investment hasd to be used in the right way particularly when factoring in the economies of scale in Dublin. Price of land, buildings, rent, traffic congestion and so on. The Spawell stadium plan was shelved due to costs.
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/great-n...stadium-110083
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-shelve-plans-for-45m-spawell-stadium-36063877.html
Investment has probably placed Dublin where they should be. As they were underachieving for decades before. Through a mixture of ineptitude, apathy, and lack of foresight.
I have already pointed out that the Leinster Council are implementing the Leinster strategy/project aiding counties in the East of the province excluding Dublin. However, I pointed out the right people and plan, have to be behind it's structure or else it will not work.
Dublin have proven this in the past with poor decisions, such as not participating in the u21 football competition for many years.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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Did you smash it wrote: »People don’t support Leinster or munster because they share enormous identity as leinstarians or munsterians.
They support it because Leinster and Munster are sexy, winning teams.
Same with GAA, if you put out a region team, whether people get behind it or not will not depend on “identity”, it will depend on whether the region team has good players, wins matches and has a nice stadium.
Leinster rugby is really Dublin to all intents and purposes.gilberto_eire wrote: »We should start a new movement, when your team is out of the race for Sam, we all back the Dubs.
Another issue is that the big population counties after Dublin are either split between hurling and football or predominantly hurling - Cork, Galway, Waterford, Limerick.
Funnily enough Mayo probably have the biggest population for a football only county after Dublin.
Ehh wrong wrong.
Kildare, Donegal, Meath, Wicklow, Tyrone, Armagh all have bigger population than Mayo.
All would be more football than hurling.
You could throw in Kerry as well, although their hurlers are a bit better.
They are in the Christy Ring cup.
Granted the two northern ones would have anything up to half the population with no interest in any GAA.
BTW Donegal beat us in Nicky Rackard Cup final.
Yes another loss, but we have won it once unlike Donegal who now have three.
PS there is a place called Fingal in the Nicky Rackard Cup and the sky hasn't fallen in due to it;s existence and taking part in competitions.0 -
Leinster rugby is really Dublin to all intents and purposes.
The point is a brand of Leinster that people all over Leinster Identify with has been created even though there is no traditional identity with being from Leinster.
Identity doesn’t really matter. Being able to support a sexy successful brand is what matters. Look at Irish supporting Liverpool and Man utd etc.0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »I am not missing the point. Rather I am looking at the whole picture. Former Leinster greats Kildare and Meath have let thier standards slip. Shown against the minnows of Leinster not only Dublin.
Which is not Dublin's fault - but Kildare and Meath's.
True, the financial investment for Dublin has helped them. It was done because there was fear the GAA would be lost in Dublin. To rugby and soccer. It would have been a disaster for the GAA. About a third of Leinster lost and a great GAA 'cash cow' for other counties (particularly the Leinster council) would have been gone.
But this investment hasd to be used in the right way particularly when factoring in the economies of scale in Dublin. Price of land, buildings, rent, traffic congestion and so on. The Spawell stadium plan was shelved due to costs.
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/great-n...stadium-110083
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-shelve-plans-for-45m-spawell-stadium-36063877.html
Investment has probably placed Dublin where they should be. As they were underachieving for decades before. Through a mixture of ineptitude, apathy, and lack of foresight.
I have already pointed out that the Leinster Council are implementing the Leinster strategy/project aiding counties in the East of the province excluding Dublin. However, I pointed out the right people and plan, have to be behind it's structure or else it will not work.
Dublin have proven this in the past with poor decisions, such as not participating in the u21 football competition for many years.
Yeah I hear u about the bigger picture and obviously there are far more factors at play other than money.
However the fact remains that the dominating team in Leinster are gaining an unfair advantage on the rest courtesy of the GAA itself. For the good of the game people want the gap to close, so much so that some people are coming up with crazy ideas like splitting Dublin or changing the championship format.
Now surely the very first thing that should happen is funding should be distributed fairly instead of favouring Dublin?
Again, not trying to be smart with this question but...
You say Dublin were underachieving for years and investment has put them where they should be, you also say Meath and Kildare are currently underachieving so should one of those counties now receive the same amount of funding that Dublin did to put them where they should be?0 -
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They do though. There is clear identity with where people are from or people who represent them. When Munster were very successful and Leinster were far in their shadow there were plenty from leinster counties bordering Munster who supported Munster simply because they saw Leinster as a side of dubs/fee schools but Leinster changed that hugely with the work theyve put in with the clubs and primary and secondary schools all over the province.Did you smash it wrote: »People don’t support Leinster or munster because they share enormous identity as leinstarians or munsterians.
They support it because Leinster and Munster are sexy, winning teams.
Same with GAA, if you put out a region team, whether people get behind it or not will not depend on “identity”, it will depend on whether the region team has good players, wins matches and has a nice stadium.
The club scene can and will grow more but it wont ever get near to anything the inter county scene can and will get. The inter county scene is still far from its peak and has serious ability to grow in some respects around its marketing etc.gormdubhgorm wrote: »Agree 100% which is why the club scene will grow and inter county will lose its relevance. Because players will prefer just to stick with clubs. Corofin already do that in Galway. Plenty of them don't even play county! Wicklow have been like that for years as well club before county. The signs are there as what will happen. The only thing that has to change is the mindset of supporters.
From a purely supporters point of view:
Personally as a Dublin GAA supporter. In football I love the league look forward to it every year (my favourite competition in the GAA inter county Calendar - trips outside Dublin competitive games).
Plus, I really enjoy the Dublin senior football club championship watch the big clashes in the group stages. Really get into it at the QF stages. It is very competitive. I watch my own club at intermediate level as well fell short of senior 2 a few times in the last few years.
I might watch the club finals on TG4 of the big football counties Mayo, Donegal, Kerry, Tyrone. On TG4 to see what is going on any new players and so on.
And I would pay attention to the Munster, Leinster, Ulster, and Connacht club championships onwards. Unfortunately none this year.
I don't really pay any real heed to the Leinster football intercounty championship. Nor do I really pay attention to the Ulster championship, Munster championship or Connacht. I would describe myself as keeping half an eye on it. As it is normally the same teams and it seems like a side show to the 'main event' the AI football Semi Finals. Might get the odd decent game in the Super 8's.
Plus a few dead rubber Super 8's can lead to 'nice day out' in Omagh and a chance to blood young players. Bugler, McDaid and so on. I watched Donegal v Kerry super 8 game as a neutral in CP. Was great entertainment. Tyrone v Cork was good to watch as neutral as well. But it can be a bit of a mix bag at times. As some teams like Kildare, Roscommon, Cork, and Meath are just not really 'Super 8' level. Never with a realistic chance of getting to the AI SF's.
I find the super 8's a bit of a myth as there seems to be really only 7 teams then a bit of a gap, and much of a muchness. Plus there is a gap between Dublin and Kerry and the rest. Kerry have the players I believe, Donegal are pushing hard. Tyrone untapped talent because of a conservative style.. Monaghan astute management, with good players. Mayo are always there or there abouts and have revamped their panel. Galway have the fearsome forwards.
Dublin
Kerry
--
Gap
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Donegal
Tyrone
Monaghan
--
Gap
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Mayo
Galway
--
Gap
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You will note Dublin are the only Leinster team on the list. Kildare barely make it to div1 and do not stay long. I would describe them as a top div 2 side. The same with Meath who spent 13 years or so out of div 1. Plus there is of course the oddest team in inter county football Cork. Whose inhabitants barely know it exists half the time, and then might have a decent one off game now and again.
The 'Leinster Intercounty Championship' for me really means watching the Dublin hurlers in Leinster, to see can they improve and push on.
I only start getting properly glued into the football intercounty when it reaches the meat as I said. I would still go to Dublin's Leinster football games but it would only be to see if I notice Dublin mistakes creeping in. Or a player who is dipping slightly who should be replaced by another option.
I wouldn't go to Leinster Dublin inter county games for 'entertainment'. It would be more to see how the Dublin squad are faring and whether there are any changes tactically. Others describe it as watching the 'journey' all the way.
Wrong. Leinster Rugby is far from Dublin only. Be it the clubs who's numbers have increased hugely over the last decade plus or the number of schools fielding sides which again is up by large amount in recent times. The numbers supporting the province from all over is up hugely from before.Leinster rugby is really Dublin to all intents and purposes.
Ehh wrong wrong.
Kildare, Donegal, Meath, Wicklow, Tyrone, Armagh all have bigger population than Mayo.
All would be more football than hurling.
You could throw in Kerry as well, although their hurlers are a bit better.
They are in the Christy Ring cup.
Granted the two northern ones would have anything up to half the population with no interest in any GAA.
BTW Donegal beat us in Nicky Rackard Cup final.
Yes another loss, but we have won it once unlike Donegal who now have three.
PS there is a place called Fingal in the Nicky Rackard Cup and the sky hasn't fallen in due to it;s existence and taking part in competitions.0
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