Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

TheTruth123

average_runner wrote: »

We have no authority over the north and apparently no balls to shut the border

Explain how we can shut the border? What about medical staff in Cavan, Armagh, Monaghan for example who will go in and out of the north multiple times just to get from home to work. Is every border crossing going to be closed (including private roads)

average_runner

TheTruth123 wrote: »

Explain how we can shut the border? What about medical staff in Cavan, Armagh, Monaghan for example who will go in and out of the north multiple times just to get from home to work. Is every border crossing going to be closed (including private roads)

How did the bigger countries in Europe manage to do it? Our boarder is tiny compare to others.

Gael23

sporina wrote: »

so.. i am traveling home tomorrow for xmas... going from one county to another (4 hrs away)...

now.. no inter county travel after the 26th...

had planned to return on the 27th... is that ok now or do I have to stay there until the inter county travel ban is lifted?

its not v clear...

No you dont but when you leave on the 27th you cant go back

josip

Expect restrictions to stay in place for next two months - Varadkar

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1222/1185905-rte-live-news-blog/

See you all in February

Ginger n Lemon

average_runner wrote: »

26th of june they opened, 14th of July cases started to rise.
Now considering it was summer and we were outside more instead of inside, would explain the slower growth, but they did start to rise two weeks after they opened

Can you define that in bold?

I see that in 8 weeks of the summer there were 1,500 cases.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/

How many cases since 4th Dec? 8,000? in 3 weeks.

You are extremely disingenuous, this is my last reply to you.

TheTruth123

average_runner wrote: »

How did the bigger countries in Europe manage to do it? Our boarder is tiny compare to others.

Theres more border crossings in Ireland than any country in Europe

suicide_circus

josip wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1222/1185905-rte-live-news-blog/

See you all in February

**** this

average_runner

TheTruth123 wrote: »

Theres more border crossings in Ireland than any country in Europe

Can you share the link that shows/proves that?

Boggles

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Jaysus Boggles that doesnt seem to reflect reality. Barely any restrictions mid June to mid August yet virus instance was on the floor.

Try harder.

You mean when we slowly came out of the strictest restrictions imposed and all schools were shuttered?

I don't really see what is confusing you TBH, less instance of the virus in the community longer it takes to reseed, longer you have until tougher restrictions needed.

9/10 months in and this still needs to be explained to someone is quite bizarre.

josip

average_runner wrote: »

How did the bigger countries in Europe manage to do it? Our boarder is tiny compare to others.

Many European borders follow natural features such as mountain ranges or rivers.
Our Northern border was effectively demarcated by the Lord President of Munster in the early 17th century.
It does not align with any significant natural feature because at the time it was merely an internal administrative concept.

Perrot's divisions in Ulster were for the main confirmed by a series of inquisitions between 1606 and 1610 that settled the demarcation of the counties of Connaught and Ulster

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counties_of_Ireland

TheTruth123

average_runner wrote: »

Can you share the link that shows/proves that?

New user cant link.google it, belfast telegraph has a big report on it from 2018

Accidentally

average_runner wrote: »

We have no authority over the north and apparently no balls to shut the border

Okay, so if you live in the Republic, you cannot leave your county, but if you live in Northern Ireland, you can cross the border and go wherever you like. Just wanted to confirm that it's as insane as I thought it was.

Boggles

https://twitter.com/TommyMeskill/status/1341379939405324288

MOH

murpho999 wrote: »

He's the Chief Medical Officer. A man of science . Highly qualified and hold a position of authority

I'd value his opinion more on medical issues more than internet posters, anti-maskers etc.

Questioning is fine but he's lookng at this from a medical point of view and economic, social interactions and pubs are different issues.

Being in a position of authority is no measure of competence, thinking so is ridiculously naive.

He's the same man of science who in his high position of authority told people there was no need to restrict visits to people in nursing homes.

These people are effectively senior managers doing what senior managers do best, deflecting blame and covering their own asses, with everyone else actually doing the work. We have done nothing, absolutely nothing, since March to better deal with the pandemic. The testing and tracing de Gascun said would avoid the need for nationwide lockdowns wasn't remotely near that and instead fell over; the 100k tests per week that Reid said we'd be doing every week from mid-April didn't happen until October; the much lauded app has been so successful that it hasn't been mentioned in months. WHO says lockdown should be a last resort - it's our only option, we have absolutely zero ideas beyond that.
And I'm saying that as someone who was fully behind the first lockdown. Buying time to establish a better infrastructure for dealing with the pandemic made sense, but we did nothing about that. I've no problem with masks. I'll be getting the vaccine as soon as I can.

I've done everything that was asked of me. I've seen 6 people I know since March. All of them outdoors apart from a handful of indoor restaurants visits, with the same person. Up to last week I'd sat down inside a building that wasn't my own apartment once since March. I've severely limited going out the last two weeks so I could have a nice meal on Christmas eve with one person, which was the one nice thing the prospect of which was getting me through the last month. I even turned down another meal with friends yesterday as I wasn't 100% sure about the venue and I didn't want to take a chance on picking something up that I might pass on on Thursday.

And now at two days notice I'm being told that all of that was for nothing. There's a fair chance now I won't see another human being I know until mid-January at the earliest. I feel physically sick.

Boggles

MOH wrote: »

I've done everything that was asked of me. I've seen 6 people I know since March.

Who asked you to do that?

tommy2k

TheTruth123 wrote: »

Explain how we can shut the border? What about medical staff in Cavan, Armagh, Monaghan for example who will go in and out of the north multiple times just to get from home to work. Is every border crossing going to be closed (including private roads)

The Garda could set up check points, just like they did in November on every road in the RoI. If the person in the car is going to work, the can head on to work. If they are not, they can turn round and head home. Restricting travel between NI and the RoI or restricting travel between NI and Great Britain appears to be off the table, for non-covid reasons. The sane among us would hope/expect that NI would cancel flights, passenger ferries from Great Britain and close the border with the RoI from their side but that isn't going to happen.

dalyboy

murpho999 wrote: »

He advises the the Government cabinet directly on national medical matters.

How is that not a position of authority?

He is an authority by proxy.
Tony tweets —- the mob assemble —— the government bows.

murpho999

MOH wrote: »

Being in a position of authority is no measure of competence, thinking so is ridiculously naive.

He's the same man of science who in his high position of authority told people there was no need to restrict visits to people in nursing homes.

These people are effectively senior managers doing what senior managers do best, deflecting blame and covering their own asses, with everyone else actually doing the work. We have done nothing, absolutely nothing, since March to better deal with the pandemic. The testing and tracing de Gascun said would avoid the need for nationwide lockdowns wasn't remotely near that and instead fell over; the 100k tests per week that Reid said we'd be doing every week from mid-April didn't happen until October; the much lauded app has been so successful that it hasn't been mentioned in months. WHO says lockdown should be a last resort - it's our only option, we have absolutely zero ideas beyond that.
And I'm saying that as someone who was fully behind the first lockdown. Buying time to establish a better infrastructure for dealing with the pandemic made sense, but we did nothing about that. I've no problem with masks. I'll be getting the vaccine as soon as I can.

I've done everything that was asked of me. I've seen 6 people I know since March. All of them outdoors apart from a handful of indoor restaurants visits, with the same person. Up to last week I'd sat down inside a building that wasn't my own apartment once since March. I've severely limited going out the last two weeks so I could have a nice meal on Christmas eve with one person, which was the one nice thing the prospect of which was getting me through the last month. I even turned down another meal with friends yesterday as I wasn't 100% sure about the venue and I didn't want to take a chance on picking something up that I might pass on on Thursday.

And now at two days notice I'm being told that all of that was for nothing. There's a fair chance now I won't see another human being I know until mid-January at the earliest. I feel physically sick.

I never said he was perfect nor could he not be challenged.

However as I said, he's still a qualified medical professional and he holds a key role in all of this.

He does more than deflect or cover his ass but advises the government to do things that will be unpopular and difficult.

You were not asked to restrict yourself the way that you have. There was no need to stay in for 6 months.
The fact remains that numbers improve during lockdown and deteriorate during easing of them. So what is the answer.

No other country has really done anything different with positive results.
North of Europe is now in full lockdown.
Why do people think Ireland should be any different?

I actually think they whole of Europe should have had one single policy and gone into full lockdown everywhere for 6 months., like they did in Wuhan but politicians were afraid to do it.

mikekerry

suicide_circus wrote: »

**** this

sure they said 2 weeks in march and plenty more examples the rest of the year.
No way are restrictions stopping in February.

tommy2k

dalyboy wrote: »

He is an authority by proxy.
Tony tweets —- the mob assemble —— the government bows.

He's part of the problem. I respect his position but he has not helped things at times and some of the metrics he has used, eg his worry index, are just ridiculous. I'm more than happy to do my bit but I've lost faith in Tony and the government. We need strong leadership now, more than ever and a strong leader would put Tony in his place.

acequion

Jesus this whole thing is just unreal!!

Are they allowing restaurants to do take aways this time? I've the impression they're not???

TomSweeney

Micky 32 wrote: »

I hope you’re practicing what you’re preaching? I’m assuming you have put yourself and your family in a bolted up door style lockdown like they did in Wuhan? So you are in total lockdown? I will assume you are because of your strong view on it.

No No !! it's one rule for the plebs another for us in these pro lockdowners minds.


I've a colleague that was against the office reopening to a limited number of people that has swanned off to Italy twice during all this (including now...)

Ginger n Lemon

murpho999 wrote: »

I never said he was perfect nor could he not be challenged.

However as I said, he's still a qualified medical professional and he holds a key role in all of this.

He does more than deflect or cover his ass but advises the government to do things that will be unpopular and difficult.

You were not asked to restrict yourself the way that you have. There was no need to stay in for 6 months.
The fact remains that numbers improve during lockdown and deteriorate during easing of them. So what is the answer.

No other country has really done anything different with positive results.
North of Europe is now in full lockdown.
Why do people think Ireland should be any different?

I actually think they whole of Europe should have had one single policy and gone into full lockdown everywhere for 6 months., like they did in Wuhan but politicians were afraid to do it.

Thank you for sharing that.

I now know to ignore your posts immediately.

Also, Wuhan did not go into a full lockdown for 6 months. But dont let the facts stop you.

I wonder if we should consider closing the whole country for awhile? Force every single business to close and all schools. Except the emergency and absolutely essential services.

We’ll save more lives and sure we are borrowing free money anyways.

Let’s all be in it together and all receive PUP for a bit.

MOH

average_runner wrote: »

26th of june they opened, 14th of July cases started to rise.
Now considering it was summer and we were outside more instead of inside, would explain the slower growth, but they did start to rise two weeks after they opened

Nice try, but not remotely true.
For a start, restaurants were full inside as well as out when they reopened, so your attempts to explain why your figures don't match is clearly false.

Three weeks after restaurants opened the 5-day average had gone up by around 15%. But in the meantime, the number of tests had increased by over 250%. So the positive rate actually fell during this period. If you're testing 2-3 times the number of people you're clearly going to find more cases.

Numbers spiked the August bank holiday, dropped a little but stayed higher than they had been. Then schools opened.

Two weeks after schools reopened cases were up over 20%.
Three weeks, 50%.
Test numbers of that period only increased by around 10%.

Anyone could download the HSE data themselves to verify this, but you can even clearly see it here. Ticking the 3-day average box smooths the graph enough to see clearly.
It's quite obvious that your claim that number shot up on the 14th July due to restaurants opening is a total lie.

darconio

Boggles wrote: »

Great news. You are.

Happy Christmas.

Well don't take it with me if you are blindfolded and can't see the obvious:

darconio wrote: »

They already have the story of the new strain up their sleeve, and several others ready to be brought up at the right moment

Round 1
Government meeting new Covid strain 'aggressively and head on', says Taoiseach

Actually I'll reply to you in the same manner that you do: I don't understand what's confusing you :pac:

For the 2nd time this farce has ruined my plans: long weekend in Bratislava planned for months, cancelled one week before departure because slovakia from 1 week to another became "Red zone", night out with my family planned on xmas eve to finally relax and forget about this nonsense, cancelled 2 days before. In the meantime I have been travelling to/from work since march masked/not masked and surprisingly I am still surviving, what a blessing

tommy2k

TomSweeney wrote: »

I've a colleague that was against the office reopening to a limited number of people that has swanned off to Italy twice during all this (including now...)

Every company has one of them. Ours is from NI and she is heading home for Christmas day. Her sister, father and mother are coming down here for New Years. Her brother, who lives with the parents, works in a Belfast hospital. Madness!

Ginger n Lemon

Bottom line is government and NPHET have lied to us consistently this year.

In March we were told by health minister and Leo that they dont expect us to tolerate lockdowns for more than few weeks.

They also told us to expect 250,000 deaths or 120,000 deaths from covid.

NPHET have consistently told us that covid spreads in restaurants yet have not provided any evidence. At all.

We were told masks are useless. Then we were told masks are the best thing ever. Frankly masks have not reduced the spread the virus, at all.

In October we were told to go into a level 5 lockdown nation wide to have a normal Christmas, now people are cancelling their Christmas plans.



Why would a regular person in Ireland adhere to any restrictions after being lied to consistently?

Penfailed

Amirani wrote: »

You're not following this well. 10,000 doses will mean 10,000 vaccinated from first batch.

Depends. Some of the vaccines are a two shot dose with four weeks between each.

Wibbs

MOH wrote: »

Two weeks after schools reopened cases were up over 20%.
Three weeks, 50%.
Test numbers of that period only increased by around 10%.

I really don't understand why the schools aren't being closed down for a time, just to see if it has any effect. In any other virus, seasonal flu, common colds the schools are a big reservoir for them, but covid is somehow different?