Why are so many people still going to work

_Kaiser_

cdeb wrote: »

The HSE are made up of qualified medical personnel, taking their guidance here from the WHO, also a body of very experienced medical professionals. Both bodies include specialists on infectious diseases.

Medical professionals the world over are taking very similar steps to us, so we're hardly an outlier.

Could you set out your own medical qualifications for us? That will help us decide whether to listen to the HSE/WHO or to a random punter on the internet.

I'm sure I have the same qualifications as you do in that regard. Your point is also self-defeating. Why should anyone listen to you either unless you have MD in your background.

You like the other poster I quoted are exactly what I was referring to earlier also. Your argument is nothing more than a replay of the 'accepted narrative' to show how "on message" you are, and an attempt to attack my credibility because that's how you deal with differing views these days.

It doesn't dismiss anything I've said nor the validity of it - feel free to prove me wrong though

cdeb

I'm not asking you to compare your medical qualifications to mine though.

I'm asking you to compare your medical qualifications to the medically qualified experts in infectious diseases whose opinion you are so dismissive of us having "blind faith" in.

I'm happy to follow said medical experts - across the world, not just in Ireland - over a random punter on the internet if you have nothing to show in response. Which evidently you don't, or you wouldn't have answered a different question to the one I asked.

Melanchthon

Zebra3 wrote: »

Each person's work is essential to them.

True I am not a work from home zealot I can't myself anyway and I know enough people that hate it but its a fact that unlike the last lockdown there is people working from offices that do not need to, these are literally people that successfully worked from home during that lockdown

Zebra3

cdeb wrote: »

I'm not asking you to compare your medical qualifications to mine though.

I'm asking you to compare your medical qualifications to the medically qualified experts in infectious diseases whose opinion you are so dismissive of us having "blind faith" in.

I'm happy to follow said medical experts - across the world, not just in Ireland - over a random punter on the internet if you have nothing to show in response. Which evidently you don't, or you wouldn't have answered a different question to the one I asked.

Just like the financial experts who promised us the cheapest bank bailout in history.

cdeb

I mean, that has absolutely nothing to do with the point at hand.

Bankers are there to make money only, so ultimately human nature means it's not surprising they're a shower of corrupt numpties.

Medical people are there to make money - so yeah, there's issues with excessive consultants' fees going through health insurance systems, etc.

But that doesn't mean anything when we're talking about their medical knowledge.

If you want to disprove what the medical experts are saying, then "Yeah, well the finance experts made a mess of the bailout" is pretty much akin to saying "I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I want to have an opinion anyway". And the correct response to that is to smile politely and move on.

Wibbs

cdeb wrote: »

The HSE are made up of qualified medical personnel, taking their guidance here from the WHO, also a body of very experienced medical professionals. Both bodies include specialists on infectious diseases.

And as has been noted C the HSE were all over the place with advice from early on. One of their "very experienced qualified medical professionals" was giving out advice in March that asymptomatic spread wasn't a problem and living with a known contact Covid person was of little risk unless they started showing symptoms of a runny nose. A month after even interwebs eejits with a functioning search engine could have pointed to research and results that showed this to be a complete nonsense. And that's before the whole masks don't work/magically work in some places, but not in others debacle, or the handling or lack of same around care homes. Overall our response has been pretty good, but it can be argued our lower population density and type of housing played as big a role as HSE advice.

cdeb

So at the start of all this, the HSE and WHO were learning as they went along.

I think that's fine. It's a new illness.

But it still doesn't mean that we should listen to _Kaiser_, a random punter on the internet, when they say it's a seasonal illness (based on...well, I don't know what), or that we should continue to ignore the HSE now (based not on their medical experience, but on their management experience).

On the Beach

Anyone backing the HSE is having a laugh. They've been a disgrace for years. I wouldn't be hanging my hat on the WHO either. A lot of people like to hang on to the notion that those above us know what they're at or have our best interests at heart as it's more comforting and reassuring than not trusting them. It's the same with the government, governments around the world and a lot of big global organisations. A lot of the time when they're doing stuff, it's a PR exercise to make it look like they're fixing the problem when a lot of the time they're not. That's politics.

Zebra3

cdeb wrote: »

I mean, that has absolutely nothing to do with the point at hand.

Bankers are there to make money only, so ultimately human nature means it's not surprising they're a shower of corrupt numpties.

Medical people are there to make money - so yeah, there's issues with excessive consultants' fees going through health insurance systems, etc.

But that doesn't mean anything when we're talking about their medical knowledge.

If you want to disprove what the medical experts are saying, then "Yeah, well the finance experts made a mess of the bailout" is pretty much akin to saying "I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I want to have an opinion anyway". And the correct response to that is to smile politely and move on.

It's totally relevant as we're discussing government ineptitude.

cdeb

Zebra3 wrote: »

It's totally relevant as we're discussing government ineptitude.

But as I say, managing a large organisation like the HSE (with government interference) is different from being able to give a professionally qualified expert opinion on something, with backup data from similar organisations and experts all around the world.

So if you're going to disagree with a medical expert on a medical matter, then fine, but let's have a solid reason why we should listen to, say, Zebra3 instead, who would in all likelihood exhibit greater ineptitude if put into the government positions you're talking about.

Or if _Kaiser_ comes in mickey swinging and saying the HSE are a bunch of clowns best ignored and this is a season disease no worse than flu (can't remember who said the last part; maybe it wasn't _Kaiser_) and gives no reasons, then the correct first step is to call the poster out on what he's saying.

No-one has yet managed to give a reason why I shouldn't just dismiss _Kaiser_ with a bit of a patronising smile tbh.

Zebra3

cdeb wrote: »

But as I say, managing a large organisation like the HSE (with government interference) is different from being able to give a professionally qualified expert opinion on something, with backup data from similar organisations and experts all around the world.

So if you're going to disagree with a medical expert on a medical matter, then fine, but let's have a solid reason why we should listen to, say, Zebra3 instead, who would in all likelihood exhibit greater ineptitude if put into the government positions you're talking about.

Or if _Kaiser_ comes in mickey swinging and saying the HSE are a bunch of clowns best ignored and this is a season disease no worse than flu (can't remember who said the last part; maybe it wasn't _Kaiser_) and gives no reasons, then the correct first step is to call the poster out on what he's saying.

No-one has yet managed to give a reason why I shouldn't just dismiss _Kaiser_ with a bit of a patronising smile tbh.

Well why should anyone trust NPHET when their advice radically changed when one person re-entered the group?

cdeb

There isn't really enough there in the question for me to go on to be honest.

Medical professionals aren't perfect of course - especially in the context of a brand new disease that we're trying to contain as we learn it. However, they have spent years of their lives working with stuff like this and by now - 8 months in - I'd trust them to have a reasonable handle on what is effectively their job, especially when you add in the support they have from many similar organisations around the world, all of whom are on roughly the same page here.

And I'll ask my question again - do you think we should go with the view of a random internet poster instead? Online anonymity can bring out a lot of faux experts (not just with covid - there's similar experts on the Stephen Kenny thread talking about motivational videos for example)

Dyr

Interesting to see the press round on the Danish study of masks immediately as it challenged the narrative. The idea that the likes of the WHO and the HSE are making decisions that are not primarily political is hilariously naive.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'm sure I have the same qualifications as you do in that regard. Your point is also self-defeating. Why should anyone listen to you either unless you have MD in your background.

You like the other poster I quoted are exactly what I was referring to earlier also. Your argument is nothing more than a replay of the 'accepted narrative' to show how "on message" you are, and an attempt to attack my credibility because that's how you deal with differing views these days.

It doesn't dismiss anything I've said nor the validity of it - feel free to prove me wrong though

You're not making any sense. The 'accepted narrative' is advice from the Who and our own national health experts. Yet you somehow think you know better than them????

Should we also be going to you for legal advice, when our pets are ill, when our kids need counselling, when we need tax advice??