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Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP
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Some very worrying insights into the thinking of Anders Tegnell, the public face of Sweden’s official coronavirus response and Right Wing 'herd immunity' posterboy, from 'freedom of information' disclosures of his e-mails earlier in the year. Time Magazine
He wanted to keep schools open "to reach herd immunity faster" and accepted that the projected 10% increased mortality of the elderly caused by keeping the schools open "might be worth it" !One example showing clearly that government officials had been thinking about herd immunity from early on is a March 15 email sent from a retired doctor to Tegnell, the epidemiologist and architect of the Swedish plan, which he forwarded to his Finnish counterpart, Mika Salminen.
In it, the retired doctor recommended allowing healthy people to be infected in controlled settings as a way to fight the epidemic. “One point would be to keep schools open to reach herd immunity faster,” Tegnell noted at the top of the forwarded email.
Salminen responded that the Finnish Health Agency had considered this but decided against it, because “over time, the children are still going to spread the infection to other age groups.” Furthermore, the Finnish model showed that closing schools would reduce “the attack rate of the disease on the elderly” by 10%. Tegnell responded: “10 percent might be worth it?”
An unbelievable, unethical, irresponsible and morally unacceptable stance from that Swedish public health (so called) doctor !
One hopes that thinking like this is not behind the 'keep the schools open at all costs' political tactic here.
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Rob A. Bank wrote: »Some very worrying insights into the thinking of Anders Tegnell, the public face of Sweden’s official coronavirus response and Right Wing 'herd immunity' posterboy, from 'freedom of information' disclosures of his e-mails earlier in the year. Time Magazine
He wanted to keep schools open "to reach herd immunity faster" and accepted that the projected 10% increased mortality of the elderly caused by keeping the schools open "might be worth it" !
An unbelievable, unethical, irresponsible and morally unacceptable stance from that Swedish public health (so called) doctor !
One hopes that thinking like this is not behind the 'keep the schools open at all costs' political tactic here.
Where is the bit that says 10% mortality?0 -
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Rob A. Bank wrote: »Some very worrying insights into the thinking of Anders Tegnell, the public face of Sweden’s official coronavirus response and Right Wing 'herd immunity' posterboy, from 'freedom of information' disclosures of his e-mails earlier in the year. Time Magazine
He wanted to keep schools open "to reach herd immunity faster" and accepted that the projected 10% increased mortality of the elderly caused by keeping the schools open "might be worth it" !
An unbelievable, unethical, irresponsible and morally unacceptable stance from that Swedish public health (so called) doctor !
One hopes that thinking like this is not behind the 'keep the schools open at all costs' political tactic here.
Not saying I agree with Tegnall, but the view may have been, 10% in the short term to save 20% in the long term. With a vaccine imminent it looks like an abysmal decision, but if he did not expect a vaccine within 18 to 24 months its a different picture.0 -
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Rob A. Bank wrote: »Some very worrying insights into the thinking of Anders Tegnell, the public face of Sweden’s official coronavirus response and Right Wing 'herd immunity' posterboy, from 'freedom of information' disclosures of his e-mails earlier in the year. Time Magazine
He wanted to keep schools open "to reach herd immunity faster" and accepted that the projected 10% increased mortality of the elderly caused by keeping the schools open "might be worth it" !
An unbelievable, unethical, irresponsible and morally unacceptable stance from that Swedish public health (so called) doctor !
One hopes that thinking like this is not behind the 'keep the schools open at all costs' political tactic here.
IMO, this amounts to crimes against humanity. These people need to be tried at the Hague.0 -
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Rob A. Bank wrote: »Some very worrying insights into the thinking of Anders Tegnell, the public face of Sweden’s official coronavirus response and Right Wing 'herd immunity' posterboy, from 'freedom of information' disclosures of his e-mails earlier in the year. Time Magazine
He wanted to keep schools open "to reach herd immunity faster" and accepted that the projected 10% increased mortality of the elderly caused by keeping the schools open "might be worth it" !
An unbelievable, unethical, irresponsible and morally unacceptable stance from that Swedish public health (so called) doctor !
One hopes that thinking like this is not behind the 'keep the schools open at all costs' political tactic here.
Well, < 24 yrs have accounted for 36% of our cases over the last 14 days, 6% of hospitalisations, and 0 deaths or ICU admittance. With it seemingly possible to achieve long-lasting immunity from infection (see other vaccine thread), then a 10% increase in mortality is minuscule and certainly within the right of a public health doctor to advocate for given their responsibly for the width/breadth of that domain.0 -
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normanoffside wrote: »Let's scrap the vaccine so and just get on with it.
Well even Anders Tegnell seems to have 'evolved' his thinking and his keep the schools open to increase infections notion.Anders Tegnell, the public face of Sweden’s official coronavirus response, said that it would be futile and immoral for a state to deliberately pursue herd immunity, where a large enough number of the population has been infected that the disease struggles to spread.
“There has up to now been no infectious disease whose transmission was fully halted by herd immunity without a vaccine,” Dr Tegnell told Die Zeit, a German newspaper./
It's a great pity the right wing supporters of 'herd immunity by infection' brigade are not able to have the same 'road to Damascus' conversion as Dr Tegnell !
Perhaps his change of mind is due to the shocking increase in daily cases in Sweden recently, caused by his peculiar ideas.0 -
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Rob A. Bank wrote: »Well even Anders Tegnell seems to have 'evolved' his thinking and his keep the schools open to increase infections notion.
It's a great pity the right wing supporters of 'herd immunity by infection' brigade are not able to have the same 'road to Damascus' conversion as Dr Tegnell !
Perhaps his change of mind is due to the shocking increase in daily cases in Sweden recently, caused by his peculiar ideas.
Or maybe the media you were reading has simply been misrepresenting the Swedish strategy all along as herd immunity. The term may have been used in shorthand in various communications, but it is clear that Sweden never actually pursued herd immunity because their strategy never gave the message “ok let everyone get it” — it gave the message that the old and vulnerable should be shielded. That is not a herd immunity strategy. The Swedes instead banked on a lite version of herd immunity, whereby the less-at-risk population would be exposed to the virus thus minimising their likelihood of spreading the virus to vulnerable people over a long period of time.
And the fact that you mention “right wing” is indicative of another huge problem which, to me, is contaminating the argument — the desire to transpose everything into Left vs Right. I’m a left leaning guy myself, and I largely think the Swedish is one we should look to emulate. Just because a lot of right leaning people also think that doesn’t necessarily mean that left leaning people are compelled to believe the opposite.0 -
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