Your New WHS Index

Gringuss

DuckSlice wrote: »

I entered some casual cards the weekend for the first time. Had quite a bad day the first day, lost balls on quite a few holes which resulted in scratches.

I put down a 10 for all these holes in the app, i presume this is ok as it gets corrected or should i have gone higher than 10?

there's a 'pick up ball' or something to that effect on the scorecard menu (3 dots button) when you're entering a score. This will scratch the hole, while the app records net double bogey for handicap purposes.

paulos53

cjfitz wrote: »

Spot on again, prawnsambo. My score came through last week despite only 17 holes being open for the comp. The closed hole was adjusted to a net double bogey.

I am very surprised that a 17 hole competition was classed as an authorised format for handicapping purposes.

Assuming it is allowed then the closed hole should have been marked as a net par for everybody.

Gringuss

cjfitz wrote: »

Spot on again, prawnsambo. My score came through last week despite only 17 holes being open for the comp. The closed hole was adjusted to a net double bogey.

Hole not started (for a reason acceptable to the Committee e.g. the hole was closed) should have been recorded as net par, not net double bogey.

IAmTitleist

Bit off topic this one...

But i've never heard of what many people refer to a scratch.

I've always used the term "ding" and only ever really heard it being referred to as a ding.

What did you have there? "A ding" or "i dinged that hole".

prawnsambo

Gringuss wrote: »

Hole not started (for a reason acceptable to the Committee e.g. the hole was closed) should have been recorded as net par, not net double bogey.

Actually this is classed as nett bogey for handicap purposes. And it's allowable in competition as 'hole not played'.

callaway92

IAmTitleist wrote: »

Bit off topic this one...

But i've never heard of what many people refer to a scratch.

I've always used the term "ding" and only ever really heard it being referred to as a ding.

What did you have there? "A ding" or "i dinged that hole".

Wtf. Never heard that before. Been scratch for 20 years for me (and I know them very well ha)

mighty magpie

IAmTitleist wrote: »

Bit off topic this one...

But i've never heard of what many people refer to a scratch.

I've always used the term "ding" and only ever really heard it being referred to as a ding.

What did you have there? "A ding" or "i dinged that hole".

Both terms used interchangably where i play. Ding possibly more popular. Old society used to have a ding box, 50p a ding.

prawnsambo

IAmTitleist wrote: »

Bit off topic this one...

But i've never heard of what many people refer to a scratch.

I've always used the term "ding" and only ever really heard it being referred to as a ding.

What did you have there? "A ding" or "i dinged that hole".

Yeah, completely off topic. Like what's getting a ding or a scratch on your car got to do with golf? :pac:

Seve OB

Never heard of a ding myself. Well on the golf course, a few in the car parks alright 🙄

Brusna

prawnsambo wrote: »

Actually this is classed as nett bogey for handicap purposes. And it's allowable in competition as 'hole not played'.

Just to clarify Gringuss was correct. It goes in as a nett par as 17 holes have been played.

It’s nett par when at least 14 holes played and nett par plus 1 when at least 10 holes played.

DuckSlice

Playing a 4ball matchplay soon.

Am I reading it right that my playing handicap for this will be 90% of my course handicap?
We do this for each player and then calculate the shots as normal so my playing partner will have 90% of the difference? and the same for the opposites?

Brusna

DuckSlice wrote: »

Playing a 4ball matchplay soon.

Am I reading it right that my playing handicap for this will be 90% of my course handicap?
We do this for each player and then calculate the shots as normal so my playing partner will have 90% of the difference? and the same for the opposites?

You are right about the first part but it’s the full difference between the playing handicaps. You don’t apply 90% a second time.

prawnsambo

Brusna wrote: »

Just to clarify Gringuss was correct. It goes in as a nett par as 17 holes have been played.

It’s nett par when at least 14 holes played and nett par plus 1 when at least 10 holes played.

If you enter hole not played on a card, the handicap system on Golf Ireland interprets that as gross bogey (I mistakenly said nett bogey in the earlier post). I think we may be at cross purposes as I am just referring to how it's dealt with in WHS whereas you seem to be referring to competition rules.

mighty magpie

Brusna wrote: »

You are right about the first part but it’s the full difference between the playing handicaps. You don’t apply 90% a second time.

I thought it was full course handicaps then 90% off the low man.

prawnsambo

mighty magpie wrote: »

I thought it was full course handicaps then 90% off the low man.

Nope. It used to be that under CONGU. Just seems to be 90% for everyone now and then do the deductions.

Brusna

prawnsambo wrote: »

If you enter hole not played on a card, the handicap system on Golf Ireland interprets that as gross bogey (I mistakenly said nett bogey in the earlier post). I think we may be at cross purposes as I am just referring to how it's dealt with in WHS whereas you seem to be referring to competition rules.

I am referring to how it’s dealt with in WHS!

When you put in hole not played and you have at least 14 holes played the golf Ireland handicap system will put in a nett par for the hole or holes not played.

Gross Bogey is one over the par of the hole and takes no consideration of the hole index or the players handicap which I’m pretty sure is incorrect.

Brusna

Here is an example of holes not played:



As this round has more than 10 and less than 14 holes played the system gives nett bogey for the first hole not played and nett par for the remaining holes not played.

PabloAndRoy

What should happen to players who do not put a card in and don't record a score? I see "No Score Recorded" on masterscorboard, but the players' records on GI app, shows nothing, the round is not recorded.

mighty magpie

prawnsambo wrote: »

Nope. It used to be that under CONGU. Just seems to be 90% for everyone now and then do the deductions.

Cheers, our club are still sending out emails stating 90% of lowest man for our internal matchplay event.

Seve OB

DuckSlice wrote: »

Playing a 4ball matchplay soon.

Am I reading it right that my playing handicap for this will be 90% of my course handicap?
We do this for each player and then calculate the shots as normal so my playing partner will have 90% of the difference? and the same for the opposites?

Work out course handicaps for all 4.
Lowest goes to scratch. (Not to be confused with a ding)
Everyone else gets 90% of the difference.

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

Work out course handicaps for all 4.
Lowest goes to scratch. (Not to be confused with a ding)
Everyone else gets 90% of the difference.

This isn't clear in the WHS handicapping rules, but any explanation I've seen has the 90% calculation before the lowest is reduced to scratch and no further deduction made.

So calculate playing handicap at 90% of course handicap and then reduce lowest handicap to zero and everyone else plays off the difference.

paulos53

prawnsambo wrote: »

This isn't clear in the WHS handicapping rules, but any explanation I've seen has the 90% calculation before the lowest is reduced to scratch and no further deduction made.

So calculate playing handicap at 90% of course handicap and then reduce lowest handicap to zero and everyone else plays off the difference.

The Golf Ireland regulations for Interclub this year have the same interpretation

"Under the Rules of Handicapping, in each form of Match Play where the Terms of Competition prescribe strokes to be given/received, sides first work out their Playing Handicaps and then take their full shots from each other, as follows:

ii) Four-Ball Match Play – All players take 90% of their Course Handicap as their Playing Handicap and players receive the difference between their own Playing Handicap and that of the player with the lowest Playing Handicap"

DuckSlice

Seve OB wrote: »

Work out course handicaps for all 4.
Lowest goes to scratch. (Not to be confused with a ding)
Everyone else gets 90% of the difference.

I just checked both ways, and it works out the same shots given regardless of method used, but that could be just the way it works out for the HI of the players in question. The bigger the difference in HI i think there would be a change in shots given.

DuckSlice

Is there a system for reporting suspicious entry of cards? or deliberate manipulation of the system?

prawnsambo

DuckSlice wrote: »

Is there a system for reporting suspicious entry of cards? or deliberate manipulation of the system?

Yeah, through your committee.

spacecoyote

DuckSlice wrote: »

Is there a system for reporting suspicious entry of cards? or deliberate manipulation of the system?

I'd imagine nothing beyond contacting your handicap/competition secretary or your committee?

getoffthepot

Can the handicap/competition secretary make an intervention and adjust a players handicap where it is obvious that their current handicap is incorrect. i.e. reduce the handicap based on reviewing recent scores.

I looked at 2 players on the golf ireland app who scored 45pts and 43pts in a club major competition at the weekend.

The winner with 45 pts in his previous round had 2 Birdies, 2 pars and 9 bogeys and he was off 25 (Course hcap 26) for the competition on Saturday - now off WHI 19.5 (course hcap 21)

The runner up had 43pts off WHI 24.2 (course hcap 25) and has had 8 pars in his last 2 rounds and he's still off WHI 22.3 (Course Hcap 24).
obvious trend here - 8 pars? any 11 or 12 handicapper would be happy with that.

The top 5 places were 45pts (23), 43pts (25), 42 pts (24) 39 pts (46), 39 pts (20)
6th was 38 pts (8)
7th, 8th & 9th all had handicaps in excess of 20.

Interested to know if this is the trend in other clubs and can the handicap secretary / committee still cut on general play as my understanding of the handicap system is that it is to be fair to other members and the role of the Handicap secretary is to protect the members and the integrity of handicaps where it is obvious that handicaps are incorrect.

PabloAndRoy

getoffthepot wrote: »

Can the handicap/competition secretary make an intervention and adjust a players handicap where it is obvious that their current handicap is incorrect. i.e. reduce the handicap based on reviewing recent scores.

I looked at 2 players on the golf ireland app who scored 45pts and 43pts in a club major competition at the weekend.

The winner with 45 pts in his previous round had 2 Birdies, 2 pars and 9 bogeys and he was off 25 (Course hcap 26) for the competition on Saturday - now off WHI 19.5 (course hcap 21)

The runner up had 43pts off WHI 24.2 (course hcap 25) and has had 8 pars in his last 2 rounds and he's still off WHI 22.3 (Course Hcap 24).
obvious trend here - 8 pars? any 11 or 12 handicapper would be happy with that.

The top 5 places were 45pts (23), 43pts (25), 42 pts (24) 39 pts (46), 39 pts (20)
6th was 38 pts (8)
7th, 8th & 9th all had handicaps in excess of 20.

Interested to know if this is the trend in other clubs and can the handicap secretary / committee still cut on general play as my understanding of the handicap system is that it is to be fair to other members and the role of the Handicap secretary is to protect the members and the integrity of handicaps where it is obvious that handicaps are incorrect.

Damn those high handicappers taking all the prizes ;-)

I think what is happening is that the new system is giving people closer to their real handicaps (based on recent 20 card form) than the previous system did which wasnt very responsive to poor form over the last year. Under the previous system there were plenty of people in the mid to high teens not scoring over 30 points. The new system has adjusted them upwards in line with how they have been actualy playing rather than how they were playing a few years back. It will all settle down by the autumn. That is my understanding of it.

By the way I am a high handicapper and I had 5 pars and a birdie a couple of weeks back. It doesn't happen every week, but it does happen.

prawnsambo

getoffthepot wrote: »

The winner with 45 pts in his previous round had 2 Birdies, 2 pars and 9 bogeys and he was off 25 (Course hcap 26) for the competition on Saturday - now off WHI 19.5 (course hcap 21)

Just looking at this one in particular and I'd think they're on very few rounds on their record to have dropped handicap index that much from one round. If you think about it, a drop of 6.5 would be a very very low score differential to come out at that number after being divided by eight. Assuming the other seven were exactly 25 each (to give a HI of 25), the last one would have to have been a negative score differential to average at 19.5.

So this would be normal enough to see a new handicap get a good score in their first five or six counting rounds and drop handicap index that much. It's one of the good features of the WHS that this happens imo.

PabloAndRoy

If I hear "I shouldn't be getting cut for 32 points" one more time I will scream.