Your New WHS Index

prawnsambo

bustercherry wrote: »

The problem too you have to call your opponent on everything as you have a duty to protect the field rather than just worry about the impact to the match. In stroke play you would be expecting the player to call penalties on himself but in match play you are always watching to ensure they don't get an advantage. It can get a bit tense quickly and no great for any playing partners

Also it also can slow the field down as you could have to finish holes out in a field playing stableford. I've won a hole with an 11 before but I could imagine the group behind in a stableford comp not being too happy watching that sh1te :pac:

Yeah. But I would be thinking you'd only want to do something like that for a concurrent medal comp where people are holing everything out anyway.

As an aside to that, was playing in a strokeplay comp last weekend with a member who told me about a guy he was playing with having a 23 on a hole in strokeplay. Not a high handicapper by any stretch either. Off seven or thereabouts. :eek:

bustercherry

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah. But I would be thinking you'd only want to do something like that for a concurrent medal comp where people are holing everything out anyway.

As an aside to that, was playing in a strokeplay comp last weekend with a member who told me about a guy he was playing with having a 23 on a hole in strokeplay. Not a high handicapper by any stretch either. Off seven or thereabouts. :eek:

I'll not name the club and was a number of years back; but I know of a single digit handicapper who had well over 30 strokes on a hole in captains qualifier. They still got cut on clause 19 adjustment too

prawnsambo

bustercherry wrote: »

I'll not name the club and was a number of years back; but I know of a single digit handicapper who had well over 30 strokes on a hole in captains qualifier. They still got cut on clause 19 adjustment too

The perils of strokeplay.

"Three from the tee, five from the tee, seven from the tee, nine from the tee, anyone got any spare balls?"

bustercherry

prawnsambo wrote: »

The perils of strokeplay.

"Three from the tee, five from the tee, seven from the tee, nine from the tee, anyone got any spare balls?"

There was a tin cup moment in a bunker too.

Ottoman_1000

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah. But I would be thinking you'd only want to do something like that for a concurrent medal comp where people are holing everything out anyway.

As an aside to that, was playing in a strokeplay comp last weekend with a member who told me about a guy he was playing with having a 23 on a hole in strokeplay. Not a high handicapper by any stretch either. Off seven or thereabouts. :eek:

23!!! Thanks, I know longer feel terrible about my closing 4 holes in the medal a few weeks back :eek::eek::eek:

callaway92

On the entering casual score when playing a non-singles comp:

Thank you for your email which has been forwarded to me by my colleague in Support.
A player cannot play a General Play round while playing 4BBB/team events as the Rules of Golf governing Advice applies.
Hope that helps. Please contact us if you have any further queries, or your club has a dedicated handicap adviser who will also be able to assist (www.golfireland.ie/your-regional-contacts.
Kind regards

callaway92

Wobs wrote: »

Thanks for the replies!

I was asking as I had played in a 2 person team event where we had to input both our scores anyway and I shot my best round by 10 shots, was disapointed that it wouldn't count towards my handicap.

I played and finished all holes and recorded my scores the same way I would have in a normal singles comp, so was just wondering next time I played in a similar format if I could enter scores seperatley. I can see why it wouldn't be ideal in other team formats.

I get what you're saying but I also get it from Golf Ireland's side/WHS system side - If you're playing with a 24 handicapper and you're off 3 for example and they stitch it to the flag on the Index 4 (where they have two shots on it and you have none) your mentality completely changes. Perhaps might take on a crazy shot for the sake of it, perhaps might arse about with your approach, perhaps mightn't remotely try with your putt.

Even if you were to say 'but I will be doing it all properly', psychologically I don't think it's possible.

Wobs

callaway92 wrote: »

I get what you're saying but I also get it from Golf Ireland's side/WHS system side - If you're playing with a 24 handicapper and you're off 3 for example and they stitch it to the flag on the Index 4 (where they have two shots on it and you have none) your mentality completely changes. Perhaps might take on a crazy shot for the sake of it, perhaps might arse about with your approach, perhaps mightn't remotely try with your putt.

Even if you were to say 'but I will be doing it all properly', psychologically I don't think it's possible.

Yeah I guess there could be a lot of issues with allowing it alright and if you allowed it for one format someone else would make an argument for another.
Thanks for getting a definitive answer, hopefully I can repeat the score in a singles soon!

prawnsambo

callaway92 wrote: »

On the entering casual score when playing a non-singles comp:

Thank you for your email which has been forwarded to me by my colleague in Support.
A player cannot play a General Play round while playing 4BBB/team events as the Rules of Golf governing Advice applies.
Hope that helps. Please contact us if you have any further queries, or your club has a dedicated handicap adviser who will also be able to assist (www.golfireland.ie/your-regional-contacts.
Kind regards

Yes. This is correct.

It does not negate what I said about playing the match according to the rules of singles golf. You can do this. It's not ideal from a matchplay point of view, but (as pointed out further above) it is allowed according to the R&A.

If a Committee chooses to allow players to play a match while competing in a stroke-play competition, it is recommended that the players be advised that the Rules for stroke play apply throughout. For example, no concessions are allowed and if one player plays out of turn, the other does not have the option of recalling the stroke.

callaway92

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yes. This is correct.

It does not negate what I said about playing the match according to the rules of singles golf. You can do this. It's not ideal from a matchplay point of view, but (as pointed out further above) it is allowed according to the R&A.

Bit confusing, your above post. Wouldn't want anyone getting caught out there. It's pretty clear you can't.

It literally says in the email: 'A player cannot play a General Play round while playing 4BBB/team events as the Rules of Golf governing Advice applies'

prawnsambo

callaway92 wrote: »

Bit confusing, your above post. Wouldn't want anyone getting caught out there. It's pretty clear you can't.

It literally says in the email: 'A player cannot play a General Play round while playing 4BBB/team events as the Rules of Golf governing Advice applies'

Only if you play with advice. You can choose not to. Which is why I said the 'rules of singles golf must apply'. Which do not include the giving of advice. And the R&A would seem to be a teeny bit above Golf Ireland where the rules of golf are concerned.

callaway92

prawnsambo wrote: »

Only if you play with advice. You can choose not to. Which is why I said the 'rules of singles golf must apply'. Which do not include the giving of advice. And the R&A would seem to be a teeny bit above Golf Ireland where the rules of golf are concerned.

I think that’s dodgy advice tbh and would advise people to double-check with their club before trying this.

It’s not singles golf when you’re on a team, whether you play with those rules or not. It’s a different mentality.

prawnsambo

callaway92 wrote: »

I think that’s dodgy advice tbh and would advise people to double-check with their club before trying this.

It’s not singles golf when you’re on a team, whether you play with those rules or not. It’s a different mentality.

I completely agree. That's why the advice is for special circumstances and I would never advise somebody on a team to do this unless absolutely necessary. The team would clearly suffer as a result. The only time I've ever allowed it is during singles matchplay. And both players have to agree to this.

copacetic

callaway92 wrote: »

I get what you're saying but I also get it from Golf Ireland's side/WHS system side - If you're playing with a 24 handicapper and you're off 3 for example and they stitch it to the flag on the Index 4 (where they have two shots on it and you have none) your mentality completely changes. Perhaps might take on a crazy shot for the sake of it, perhaps might arse about with your approach, perhaps mightn't remotely try with your putt.

Even if you were to say 'but I will be doing it all properly', psychologically I don't think it's possible.

Your responsibility as a player is to keep your handicap current though, so if you shoot 10 under your handicap but it’s a team format, most players would want to record that score to keep their handicap up to date. If nothing else just not to be one of the many out there who stuns everyone with their great golf every time a non handicap affecting chance comes up!

callaway92

copacetic wrote: »

Your responsibility as a player is to keep your handicap current though, so if you shoot 10 under your handicap but it’s a team format, most players would want to record that score to keep their handicap up to date. If nothing else just not to be one of the many out there who stuns everyone with their great golf every time a non handicap affecting chance comes up!

I get what you’re saying, but again there may be shots that he’s just not going to ever take on in a singles round etc - the circumstances are completely different. I’m not completely opposed to the idea but I’d be leaning towards the rule of not being allowed do it.

slingerz

Seen a lad get 46 points with 2 scratches in a 4ball match play comp absolutely outrageous golf from him but can never do it in competition it seems.

copacetic

slingerz wrote: »

Seen a lad get 46 points with 2 scratches in a 4ball match play comp absolutely outrageous golf from him but can never do it in competition it seems.

Must have been his partner putting first hosing him that odd line!

Mantis Toboggan

How does the handicap work for full scrambles?

I get the 25% 20% 15% 10% but is it from their course handicap or playing handicap?

prawnsambo

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

How does the handicap work for full scrambles?

I get the 25% 20% 15% 10% but is it from their course handicap or playing handicap?

It's always from the course handicap.

Mantis Toboggan

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's always from the course handicap.

Played a full scramble today and it was course handicap combined and then 1/10th of that!

prawnsambo

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Played a full scramble today and it was course handicap combined and then 1/10th of that!

It'll take time...

copacetic

Has anyone seen a situation where a lower qualifying score isn’t used in calculation on golf Ireland? Midnight update shows the latest lower differential but higher one is still being used for handicap index.

Edit - to answer my own question the score comes in an midnight but they must run the calculations an hour or two later.

david2002

Folks
Apologies if this has been asked already.

Regarding initial handicap award does the club handicap committee have any say in the allocation or is the calculation performed by WHS.

e.g. A local lad who is known as a very good pitch and put player and is a good hurler decides to try play a full course but obviously struggles with the drive. He loses several balls and returns nets diffs of +34+35 & +37.
Whs calculates an initial handicap index of 32.

Is that it or can the handicap committee (as was the case b4) take other info into account and allocate a lower (more realistic) handicap for the individuals potential after some practice

Regards
.Denis

Brusna

david2002 wrote: »

Folks
Apologies if this has been asked already.

Regarding initial handicap award does the club handicap committee have any say in the allocation or is the calculation performed by WHS.

e.g. A local lad who is known as a very good pitch and put player and is a good hurler decides to try play a full course but obviously struggles with the drive. He loses several balls and returns nets diffs of +34+35 & +37.
Whs calculates an initial handicap index of 32.

Is that it or can the handicap committee (as was the case b4) take other info into account and allocate a lower (more realistic) handicap for the individuals potential after some practice

Regards
.Denis

Yes the handicap committee can and should make an adjustment after the cards have been entered to bring the handicap index down to a more appropriate number.

PabloAndRoy

david2002 wrote: »

Folks
Apologies if this has been asked already.

Regarding initial handicap award does the club handicap committee have any say in the allocation or is the calculation performed by WHS.

e.g. A local lad who is known as a very good pitch and put player and is a good hurler decides to try play a full course but obviously struggles with the drive. He loses several balls and returns nets diffs of +34+35 & +37.
Whs calculates an initial handicap index of 32.

Is that it or can the handicap committee (as was the case b4) take other info into account and allocate a lower (more realistic) handicap for the individuals potential after some practice

Regards
.Denis

Maybe I am missing something, but you seem to be saying "This player will improve, give him a lower handicap".

I don't think HI should indicate potential, but rather should reflect recent form. The 32 seems right to me. He has 3 scores, so the HI is lowest score -2 (34 -2) The more he plays the closer the HI comes to his form. As he improves, his HI will reflect that.

Ivefoundgod

Mine was adjusted down when I submitted my scores, average would have been about 13.3 with the minus adjustment of -2 to 11.3 but I was actually put at 10.6 (looks like they took my lowest score differential and put me at that as a starting point). Then when I submitted my next score which had a score differential of 11.2 it seemed to change the calculation in line with the WHS system so it took my lowest score differential of my first 3 scores which was 10.6 and deducted 1 as per rules so I ended up at 9.6

I'm now back up to 10.9 and expect that to settle down somewhere around 12/13 once I've the 20 scores in. I think it varies by club in terms of initial handicapping but once you've got a handicap it reverts to the WHS unless the h'cap secretary makes manual adjustments as far as I know.

prawnsambo

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Mine was adjusted down when I submitted my scores, average would have been about 13.3 with the minus adjustment of -2 to 11.3 but I was actually put at 10.6 (looks like they took my lowest score differential and put me at that as a starting point). Then when I submitted my next score which had a score differential of 11.2 it seemed to change the calculation in line with the WHS system so it took my lowest score differential of my first 3 scores which was 10.6 and deducted 1 as per rules so I ended up at 9.6

I'm now back up to 10.9 and expect that to settle down somewhere around 12/13 once I've the 20 scores in. I think it varies by club in terms of initial handicapping but once you've got a handicap it reverts to the WHS unless the h'cap secretary makes manual adjustments as far as I know.

This seems to be in line with WHS (although you aren't clear on the number of scores in). Out of three scores, WHS picks the lowest SD and subtracts 2. Out of 4 it takes the lowest and subtracts 1. It isn't an average of the first three.

gypsy79

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Mine was adjusted down when I submitted my scores, average would have been about 13.3 with the minus adjustment of -2 to 11.3 but I was actually put at 10.6 (looks like they took my lowest score differential and put me at that as a starting point). Then when I submitted my next score which had a score differential of 11.2 it seemed to change the calculation in line with the WHS system so it took my lowest score differential of my first 3 scores which was 10.6 and deducted 1 as per rules so I ended up at 9.6

I'm now back up to 10.9 and expect that to settle down somewhere around 12/13 once I've the 20 scores in. I think it varies by club in terms of initial handicapping but once you've got a handicap it reverts to the WHS unless the h'cap secretary makes manual adjustments as far as I know.

That -2 is in the whs rules

prawnsambo

gypsy79 wrote: »

That -2 is in the whs rules

He seems to be of the belief that the initial HI is based on an average of his first three SDs from his submitted cards. Hard to know for sure, but that's what it looks like.

Ivefoundgod

prawnsambo wrote: »

This seems to be in line with WHS (although you aren't clear on the number of scores in). Out of three scores, WHS picks the lowest SD and subtracts 2. Out of 4 it takes the lowest and subtracts 1. It isn't an average of the first three.

Ah ok, for some reason I thought it was the average for the initial handicap. So I submitted 3 scores initially, I'm up to 8 now and it shows 2 of my scores as counting in the app.

gypsy79 wrote: »

That -2 is in the whs rules

Yeah I knew about the -2 allright thanks to the knowledgable people in this thread but wasn't sure where the 10.6 came from though as prawnsambo points out its not the average of the 3 which I though it was but lowest score -2 though in my case the -2 didn't seem to be applied initially, just gave me 10.6 which was my lowest score differential out of my first 3 scores. If it was to follow WHS rules correctly it should have been 8.6, is that right?