Cheltenham 2021 Antepost

RivetingRoger

Envoi being money against is simply betting on the horse getting there

Pogue eile

RivetingRoger wrote: »

Envoi being money against is simply betting on the horse getting there

Still 7/4 on PP which I have availed of, won't last long.

Slattsy

Slattsy wrote: »

General question; my guess is a lot of trainers will want to avoid Envoi Allen in the Marsh. So, what price is EV likely to go off on the day if he make it there fit and well?

I'll say 4/6 :eek:

Into 6/4 now. Wins his next race and he goes to Cheltenham as the Irish banker and they'll steam into him.

IAMAMORON

I said posts ago, the horse is no longer a betting prospect.

Anyone backing even money shots Antepost needs to give it up, I mean that.

Coneygree

Yorkhill and Vautour were both 6/4 on the day they won the JLT. You'd have to go back to Dynaste to find any horse shorter than that on the day. The race is bound to cut up hugely as nobody will want a piece of him if he hacks up the next day too, he's already a dodged horse. Could be a very short price in March.

Saying that, I think 6/4 isn't a bad price for him at all at this stage. Put it this way, if I have to back Epatante or Envoi at 6/4 it's Envoi every time!

Pogue eile

Pogue eile wrote: »

Still 7/4 on PP which I have availed of, won't last long.

11/10 now, I'd say they got hammered when they were a standout 7/4.

Coneygree

Pogue eile wrote: »

11/10 now, I'd say they got hammered when they were a standout 7/4.

Jesus don't mind what I said, he'll be evens by Christmas.

Slattsy

Most of the horses in the betting won't be running lads. He goes off odds on. Easy.

Biggest price I have I 5/2 but could look huge.

RivetingRoger

Have Envoi in a few AP doubles at 2/1 and 9/4

longshotvalue

Some lads have short memories, he'll be available at bigger than evens on the day. Save your money until then, his chance of not getting there is far more significant that the difference between the price he is now and the price he will be in march.

Coneygree

https://twitter.com/kris1179/status/1333169858079584256?s=20

https://twitter.com/Raceolly/status/1333170849894043648?s=20

Did a fair bit of laughing at the above. What's daft is that you know some poor sod has backed her for the national. I guess fools and their money and all that.

Morgans

aidankkk wrote: »

Some lads have short memories, he'll be available at bigger than evens on the day. Save your money until then, his chance of not getting there is far more significant that the difference between the price he is now and the price he will be in march.

I don't believe he will be bigger than evens if getting there on the day. My short memory saw him going off at 4/7 last march. It will be something similar on the day. He will scare off most opposition.

Pogue eile

aidankkk wrote: »

Some lads have short memories, he'll be available at bigger than evens on the day. Save your money until then, his chance of not getting there is far more significant that the difference between the price he is now and the price he will be in march.

I very much doubt your statement, can't see what or who could force him to go off odds against, not a hope. Five horses went off at odds on last year, four the previous year.

Slattsy

If he gets there in one piece he goes off 1/2ish. People will fook everything on him and the bookies liabilities could be huge as he'll be in every double/treble too, if those other well fancies animals win before the Marsh - they wont be taking chances.

He was backed into 4/7 last year on the day, in what looked a stronger race on paper than the Marsh looks now, and bookies wont take that chance again.

IAMAMORON

How come he is not going for the RSA?

If he is all that good?

Morgans

IAMAMORON wrote: »

How come he is not going for the RSA?

If he is all that good?

Because the RSA can potentially be a brutal race and has a history of destroying younger horses. The aim for EA is the 2022 Gold Cup, not the RSA and there is no point risking bottoming him this year.

Im not sure its a more prestigious race than the Marsh at this stage (more historic definitely) but if you are a classier horse rather than out and out stayer, go for the Marsh.

IAMAMORON

Morgans wrote: »

Because the RSA can potentially be a brutal race and has a history of destroying younger horses. The aim for EA is the 2022 Gold Cup, not the RSA and there is no point risking bottoming him this year.

Im not sure its a more prestigious race than the Marsh at this stage (more historic definitely) but if you are a classier horse rather than out and out stayer, go for the Marsh.

So in other words connections are chicken shight ?

I am glad I asked now.

What race did Arkle, Denman, Best Mate, Al Boum Photo, Don Cossack , Lord Windermere, Bobs Worth etc etc all run in?

I thought this thing was a superstar?

Coneygree won the Gold Cup as a novice, why don't they go straight there in March?

Morgans

IAMAMORON wrote: »

So in other words connections are chicken shight ?

I am glad I asked now.

What race did Arkle, Denman, Best Mate, Al Boum Photo, Don Cossack , Lord Windermere, Bobs Worth etc etc all run in?

I thought this thing was a superstar?

Coneygree won the Gold Cup as a novice, why don't they go straight there in March?

You don't know enough on this to troll.

Pogue eile

IAMAMORON wrote: »

So in other words connections are chicken shight ?

I am glad I asked now.

What race did Arkle, Denman, Best Mate, Al Boum Photo, Don Cossack , Lord Windermere, Bobs Worth etc etc all run in?

I thought this thing was a superstar?

Coneygree won the Gold Cup as a novice, why don't they go straight there in March?

Jaysus, your Monday morning trolling is actually worse than your normal levels, maybe you need the run before showing your best form

IAMAMORON

The Marsh Chase role of honour,

2011 Noble Prince
2012 Sir Des Champs
2013 Benefficient
2014 Taquin du Seuil
2015 Vautour
2016 Black Hercules
2017 Yorkhill
2018 Shattered Love
2019 Defi du Seuil
2020 Samcro

I am not seeing many Gold Cup winners lads and Lassies ? Looks like a list of also rans and overhyped flops to me?

IAMAMORON

Pogue eile wrote: »

Jaysus, your Monday morning trolling is actually worse than your normal levels, maybe you need the run before showing your best form

Be nice.

I always tell the truth... even when I lie.

akelly02

run him in the arkle and we get a proper clash

people on a whatsapp group saying this thing will never be bet etc its getting annoying

IAMAMORON

Disagreeing with a consensus is not trolling either.

I have seen good ones tinkered with before, to their detriment.

If he is all that why not skip the RSA and go straight for the Gold Cup?

piplip87

Lads been looking at the Ballyadam race again. Surely that's the Supreme winner there.

Although I have taken a look at Ngolo. What's the general feeling there ? He wasn't stopping at the line, the Ballymore ? Albert Bartlett?

Slattsy

piplip87 wrote: »

Lads been looking at the Ballyadam race again. Surely that's the Supreme winner there.

Although I have taken a look at Ngolo. What's the general feeling there ? He wasn't stopping at the line, the Ballymore ? Albert Bartlett?

Flew home. I'd guess Ballymore but hard to know with Willie bingo.

Think Ballyadam wins where ever he goes.

IAMAMORON

piplip87 wrote: »

Although I have taken a look at Ngolo. What's the general feeling there ? He wasn't stopping at the line, the Ballymore ? Albert Bartlett?

He should have been ridden closer up to the pace, the run in was short yesterday, I thought Townend should have had him closer to the pace.

He looks useful, but I would like to see him win next time out before getting excited. At this stage last year Monkfish, Asterion Forlonge and the Big Getaway hadn't jumped a hurdle in anger.

Don't listen to me though, I am just a troll who knows nothing.

Morgans

akelly02 wrote: »

run him in the arkle and we get a proper clash

people on a whatsapp group saying this thing will never be bet etc its getting annoying

I think he would win the Arkle. It's a shame that the Marsh exists now and its unlikely that him and Shiskin will ever meet. His aim is Gold Cup 2022. Until then, its all just prep to get him right for then. Why not run Shiskin in the Marsh? There is no need to go out of your way to find a harder race than you need to, whether its Shiskin or Envoi Allen. To satisfy lads on whatsapp and the internet???

If you are getting annoyed at it, so be it.

IAMAMORON

Morgans wrote: »

I think he would win the Arkle. It's a shame that the Marsh exists now and its unlikely that him and Shiskin will ever meet. His aim is Gold Cup 2022. Until then, its all just prep to get him right for then. Why not run Shiskin in the Marsh? There is no need to go out of your way to find a harder race than you need to, whether its Shiskin or Envoi Allen. To satisfy lads on whatsapp and the internet???

If you are getting annoyed at it, so be it.

Neither of them would have a hope against Mt Leinster, different gravy.

Pogue eile

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Disagreeing with a consensus is not trolling either.

I have seen good ones tinkered with before, to their detriment.

If he is all that why not skip the RSA and go straight for the Gold Cup?

Ok, so you are not trolling, I possibly gave you too much credit.

You are however talking through your hat! Sometimes it is ok to agree with the consensus, you don't always have to be the cool kid who can see something that everyone else cant see!

Mentioning Arkle, Denman, Don Cossack and Best Mate when trying to big up the RSA as a more worthy race that the March/JLT is one of your finer moments though :D

Pogue eile

piplip87 wrote: »

Lads been looking at the Ballyadam race again. Surely that's the Supreme winner there.

Although I have taken a look at Ngolo. What's the general feeling there ? He wasn't stopping at the line, the Ballymore ? Albert Bartlett?

Ngolo wasn't suited by the pace or the small field, will be much more suited to a big field and an end to end gallop.

Mullins. I am told, has at least three novices that are held in higher regard for the Supreme that Ngolo which is very worrying for anyone that has taken the 6/1 on Ballyadam.