Beggars sitting outside shops

22-10-2020 10:34am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Again, if you bothereed your arse to read the full thread you would see my wife and children were not born in Ireland and had to go through the system at various stages.

I have also helped her friends and associates as need be. If you stalked me and thankfully it appears you do not, I have posted about renting a room to foreign nationals including south Americans, etc over the years and assisting them.

First up, you want me to prove a negative? You should know this cant be achieved and is a silly request.

Second, I refered very specifically to Gypsies obtaining PPS numbers. Dont move the goalposts.

Third, I have no doubt that Irish beggers are in reciept of welfare as they have an automatic right to a PPS number and state aid. Again thats irelevent and a pretty obvious attempt to move the goalposts.

Fourth, I speak from personal experience working with Gypsies and other beggers including Irish alongside homeless charities, embassies and social welfare departments. This I cannot prove, so its for you to accept at face value or not.

Now, proof to backup your actual statement?

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Nothing?

Lol, am I meant to reply to comments where you refer to silly requests? You are fare less important than you think.

Again, I asked were you a Roma gypsy ............. you are disputing that there are Roma gypsys on HAP that are begging, it's a ludicrous viewpoint.

You are asking me to prove that there are Roma gypsies in receipt of HAP that are begging, how can I prove that factually yo your satisfaction on here?

It's like me asking you to prove your wife and children were not born in Ireland and had to go through the system at various stages.............

4.2 Accommodation
93.3% of respondents reported feeling discriminated against in accessing accommodation. In
some cases, respondents stated that landlords said they do not accept Roma tenants, but in other
cases, people would simply be told that the accommodation was now taken. Service providers
also reported witnessing direct discrimination with landlords refusing to accept Roma as tenants.
When in accommodation, 66.3% of the respondents reported feeling discriminated against by
a landlord or local authority. In focus groups, the participants explained that the current housing
crisis in Ireland was aggravating the situation as it was a ‘landlords’ market’.

Page 54 mentions "When in accommodation, 66.3% of the respondents reported feeling discriminated against by
a landlord or local authority" ............ that suggests they have PPS numbers or at least or in receipt of HAP, are none of these ROMA folk begging? 100% none of them are, I have to prove that for you to believe that some might be?

You have no doubt that Irish beggers are in reciept of welfare as they have an automatic right to a PPS number and state aid nut won't believe any ROMA beggers are on HAP, a wildly naïve viewpoint at best, more likely you are just being contrarian.

I'm hardly going to be going through your posts to see where you are helping non nationals with accommodation am I, FFS.

22-10-2020 11:35am

Augeo wrote: »

Again, I asked were you a Roma gypsy ............. you are disputing that there are Roma gypsys on HAP that are begging, it's a ludicrous viewpoint.

its not as I pointed out

Augeo wrote: »

You are asking me to prove that there are Roma gypsies in receipt of HAP that are begging, how can I prove that factually yo your satisfaction on here?

Produce evidence of someone walking into the country and getting on the list without providing any means other than bagging. Its your statement, its your allegation. Provide supporting evidence.

Augeo wrote: »

It's like me asking you to prove your wife and children were not born in Ireland and had to go through the system at various stages.............

Which I could do if I were inclined to do so by producing passports, birth certs, PPS documentation, etc.

Augeo wrote: »

4.2 Accommodation
93.3% of respondents reported feeling discriminated against in accessing accommodation. In
some cases, respondents stated that landlords said they do not accept Roma tenants, but in other
cases, people would simply be told that the accommodation was now taken. Service providers
also reported witnessing direct discrimination with landlords refusing to accept Roma as tenants.
When in accommodation, 66.3% of the respondents reported feeling discriminated against by
a landlord or local authority. In focus groups, the participants explained that the current housing
crisis in Ireland was aggravating the situation as it was a ‘landlords’ market’.

Im unsure what aspects of this you think proves your point. That private landlords descriminated against Roma Gypsies doesnt prove that the applicants were either begging or in reciept of any social welfare/

If the councils refused them I am again unsure how you think this proves your point. Perhaps they were discriminated against because as I said, they lacked PPS numbers? Or because they didnt qualify via means testing, or because they failed to satisfy habitual residency requirements? Or because they couldnt provide proof of income?

I think that goes against your argument. Your argument is that they are BEGGING AND IN RECIEPT OF HAP AND HOUSING. Prove it.

Augeo wrote: »

that suggests they have PPS numbers or at least or in receipt of HAP, are none of these ROMA folk begging? 100% none of them are, I have to prove that for you to believe that some might be?

Except it doesnt, that doesnt state where they are living, what they are claming, what their income is. None of it, its a generic statement that doesnt seperate council and private rentals. You know that yes? You realise that your post doesnt provide any proof that a Roma gypsy has been provided with social welfare and is begging since getting off the plane. Thats the allegation, again its YOUR allegation so its for YOU to prove.

Augeo wrote: »

You have no doubt that Irish beggers are in reciept of welfare as they have an automatic right to a PPS number and state aid nut won't believe any ROMA beggers are on HAP, a wildly naïve viewpoint at best, more likely you are just being contrarian.

Again you move the goalposts. I didnt say there were no Gpsies claiming HAP. I said there are no Gypsies claiming HAP without a PPS number and that they arent arrving into Dublin airport and getting PPS numbers without proof they can support themselves by means other than begging. Many foreign nationals arrive into Ireland with money in the bank and employment oppertunities but things go wrong and they fall on hard times. Thats NOT what you are claiming here.

regardless of believing me or not, can YOU provide evidence that supports your claim that Roma gypsies are landing into Ireland and obtaining PPS numbers and social welfare from the day of arrivaland without passing any checks being conducted then relying on begging for income.

Thats YOUR statement, thats YOUR claim. Not half of it, not one aspect of it. ALL of it

22-10-2020 11:45am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

.............

Again you move the goalposts. I didnt say there were no Gpsies claiming HAP. I said there are no Gypsies claiming HAP without a PPS number and that they arent arrving into Dublin airport and getting PPS numbers without proof they can support themselves by means other than begging. Many foreign nationals arrive into Ireland with money in the bank and employment oppertunities but things go wrong and they fall on hard times. Thats NOT what you are claiming here..............

No, you are moving goalposts, you disputed that Roma folk in receipt of HAP are begging.

This "no person can just rock into Ireland and voila, welfare" is a side note that you are hanging onto ........ ............

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

.........................
Except it doesnt, that doesnt state where they are living, what they are claming, what their income is. None of it, its a generic statement that doesnt seperate council and private rentals. You know that yes? You realise that your post doesnt provide any proof that a Roma gypsy has been provided with social welfare and is begging since getting off the plane. Thats the allegation, again its YOUR allegation so its for YOU to prove.
...............

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

.........................

I don't believe any proof has been produced that they are claiming welfare and free houses either, has it?

They get the money for rent from begging of course. I dare say a bit of stealing from time to time as well. I don't recall saying otherwise.

Augeo wrote: »

......... a large bit of HAP I'd imagine also.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Again no. I dunno why it needs to be repeated constantly but Gypsies and in fact no person can just rock into Ireland and voila, welfare.......................

Sorry to break it you but marrying a non national / asylum seeker /whatever doesn't make you an authority on how Roma folk scam the system.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

........... Your argument is that they are BEGGING AND IN RECIEPT OF HAP AND HOUSING. Prove it..............

How can I prove that ?
On here to your satisfaction?

I can't so you are right and I am wrong is it?
Fair enough if that's your game

22-10-2020 11:59am

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexfordpeople/news/courts/romanian-man-jailed-for-280000-welfare-fraud-35448169.html

How come this chap could claim SW "When Romania joined the EU in 2008, he became eligible to collect social welfare under his own name and began doing so, while also continuing to collect payments as Eduard Preda"

22-10-2020 12:00pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

.....................

regardless of believing me or not, can YOU provide evidence that supports your claim that Roma gypsies are landing into Ireland and obtaining PPS numbers and social welfare from the day of arrivaland without passing any checks being conducted then relying on begging for income.

Thats YOUR statement, thats YOUR claim. Not half of it, not one aspect of it. ALL of it

No, my claim is there are Roma gypsies begging who are in receipt of SW and HAP........... all this day of arrival t0ss is something you've brought into the chat for whatever reason. It's called moving goalposts.

22-10-2020 3:50pm

Augeo wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexfordpeople/news/courts/romanian-man-jailed-for-280000-welfare-fraud-35448169.html

How come this chap could claim SW "When Romania joined the EU in 2008, he became eligible to collect social welfare under his own name and began doing so, while also continuing to collect payments as Eduard Preda"

Did you see the part where he was claiming since 1999? The part where he was an asylum seeker NOT here under EU travel agreements? hmmm?

He was eligable as a result of satisying habitual residence requirements by the way. Something I already mentioned.

I assume you have proof that he was begging? That he is a gypsy?

22-10-2020 3:50pm

Augeo wrote: »

No, my claim is there are Roma gypsies begging who are in receipt of SW and HAP

So prove it

All the ****e you keep coming out with, you cant prove any of it. Its your bias and pub ****e talk only. Have you ever actually spoken with a Gypsy begger even?

22-10-2020 3:52pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

So prove it
All the ****e you keep coming out with, you cant prove any of it. Its your bias and pub ****e talk only. Have you ever actually spoken with a Gypsy begger even?

lol

Carry on kid ............. you live in delusional lala land if you reckon some Roma folk aren't on HAP and begging also.

You are the one coming out with sh1t, reckoning your own case is anyway analogous to Roma gypsies who are notorious scammers.

22-10-2020 3:54pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Did you see the part where he was claiming since 1999?.........

Under another name, not his own

22-10-2020 3:54pm

Augeo wrote: »

lol

Carry on kid ............. you live in delusional lala land if you reckon some Roma folk aren't on HAP and begging also.

You are the one coming out with sh1t, reckoning your own case is anyway analogous to Roma gypsies who are notorious scammers.

so the answer would be no, you have no proof, no personal experence or indeed knowledge of the requirements and no personal interaction but you know better than me. Gotcha

22-10-2020 3:54pm

Augeo wrote: »

Under another name, not his own

and this proves what exactly?

again any proof hes a gypsy and begging? gonna ignore his status in the state? Right so

22-10-2020 3:57pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

and this proves what exactly?..........

The fact he was claiming under a different name actually means that he wasn't claiming under his own name.............."Did you see the part where he was claiming since 1999?........"

It's quite significant.

What status in the state does someone have who was claiming social welfare under a previous name. You can't rock up and use that as proof you've been here for x years.

Do you understand what fraud is?
"The court was told he first arrived in Ireland in 1998 and was refused asylum but returned the following year, under the assumed name of Eduard Preda, and granted asylum. He then began collecting social welfare using this false identity."

22-10-2020 3:59pm

Augeo wrote: »

The fact he was claiming under a different name actually means that he wasn't claiming under his own name.............."Did you see the part where he was claiming since 1999?........"

It's quite significant.

Indeed, because he was claming asylum from a non EU state. Its very significant indeed. Not in proving your claims that Roma gypsies are running around claming everything and begging without PPS numbers

NOw, about that proof....

or personal experience....

or knowledge of the system......

22-10-2020 4:03pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

so the answer would be no, you have no proof, no personal experence or indeed knowledge of the requirements and no personal interaction but you know better than me. Gotcha

What makes you an authority to claim there are no Roma gypsies begging in Ireland whilst in receipt of HAP?

Absolutely nothing ......... you sh1t on about non relevant stuff moving the goalposts and asking folk to prove there are Roma gypsies begging in Ireland whilst in receipt of HAP .......... lunacy.

wipe the froth off your keyboard kid.

22-10-2020 4:03pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Indeed, because he was claming asylum from a non EU state. Its very significant indeed. Not in proving your claims that Roma gypsies are running around claming everything and begging without PPS numbers

NOw, about that proof....

or personal experience....

or knowledge of the system......

So you married a roma gyspy who is by the book?

22-10-2020 4:06pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Indeed, because he was claming asylum from a non EU state. Its very significant indeed. Not in proving your claims that Roma gypsies are running around claming everything and begging without PPS numbers

NOw, about that proof....

or personal experience....

or knowledge of the system......

It's fraud

Rules get broken .......... life isn't by the book, the system gets gamed.

22-10-2020 4:08pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Indeed, because he was claming asylum from a non EU state. Its very significant indeed. Not in proving your claims that Roma gypsies are running around claming everything and begging without PPS numbers

NOw, about that proof....

or personal experience....

or knowledge of the system......

the only one saying they don't have PPS numbers is yourself, you know full well some of them do .......... but you've dug such a hole now you can't admit that.

Hence why you have a spiel "u cannot come to Ireland and get SW and HAP etc when you land off the plane"

22-10-2020 6:42pm

right, well hardly any point in going on with this, you have failed to produce anything to prove your argument and clearly do not intend to.

paul71 · 29-10-2020 10:27am

Augeo wrote: »

the only one saying they don't have PPS numbers is yourself, you know full well some of them do .......... but you've dug such a hole now you can't admit that.

Hence why you have a spiel "u cannot come to Ireland and get SW and HAP etc when you land off the plane"

Are you saying you can?

29-10-2020 10:32am

paul71 wrote: »

Are you saying you can?

Not at all ................. I'm saying there are Roma folk in receipt of HAP and SW who are begging......... in response to that this spiel "u cannot come to Ireland and get SW and HAP etc when you land off the plane" was introduced to the topic.

paul71 · 29-10-2020 1:05pm

Augeo wrote: »

Not at all ................. I'm saying there are Roma folk in receipt of HAP and SW who are begging......... in response to that this spiel "u cannot come to Ireland and get SW and HAP etc when you land off the plane" was introduced to the topic.

Well the statement he made is correct, nobody can arrive here and receive welfare, even an Irish citizen returning after a long period cannot do that so I see no problem with his statement.

29-10-2020 1:37pm

paul71 wrote: »

Well the statement he made is correct, nobody can arrive here and receive welfare, even an Irish citizen returning after a long period cannot do that so I see no problem with his statement.

He was mentioning it to dispute that there are Roma folk in receipt of HAP and SW who are begging.

He reckons any Roma gypsy begging then wanders off home to their rented accommodation that's paid for by begging and " bit of stealing from time to time as well " ........... landlords of course rent out properties to folk with this earning potential in times of housing shortages

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

They pay rent, to a landlord.

Pretty obvious I would have thought.

MarkY91 wrote: »

So why are they begging on the street if they can afford to pay rent? Can't you back your claim up with proof that they're paying rent? Where do they get the money for rent? Definitely not by working.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

You are very angry.

How prey tell could I back it up with evidence? What, realistically could I produce? I can only speak from experience dealing with them. Plenty sharing places in Dublin 1 and 7.

I don't believe any proof has been produced that they are claiming welfare and free houses either, has it?

They get the money for rent from begging of course. I dare say a bit of stealing from time to time as well. I don't recall saying otherwise.

Augeo wrote: »

......... a large bit of HAP I'd imagine also.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Again no. I dunno why it needs to be repeated constantly but Gypsies and in fact no person can just rock into Ireland and voila, welfare...........

paul71 · 29-10-2020 1:41pm

Augeo wrote: »

He was mentioning it to dispute that there are Roma folk in receipt of HAP and SW who are begging.

It would extremely difficult for them to do so given the stringent nature of the Habitual residence rule, so it is a fair statement.

paul71 · 29-10-2020 1:43pm

In addition given niners' profession he is in a far better position to comment on that than many.

29-10-2020 1:47pm

paul71 wrote: »

It would extremely difficult for them to do so given the stringent nature of the Habitual residence rule, so it is a fair statement.

The world is full of people succeeding when things are extremely difficult. €€€s are a great motivator.

29-10-2020 1:48pm

paul71 wrote: »

In addition given niners' profession he is in a far better position to comment on that than many.

How do you know his profession?

Have you stalked him?

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Again, if you bothereed your arse to read the full thread you would see my wife and children were not born in Ireland and had to go through the system at various stages.

I have also helped her friends and associates as need be. If you stalked me and thankfully it appears you do not, I have posted about renting a room to foreign nationals including south Americans, etc over the years and assisting them.
..........

paul71 · 29-10-2020 1:49pm

Augeo wrote: »

He reckons any Roma gypsy begging then wanders off home to their rented accommodation that's paid for by begging and " bit of stealing from time to time as well " ........... landlords of course rent out properties to folk with this earning potential in times of housing shortages

He is correct, have you ever looked at the requirements and evidence needed to establish habitual residence, and he knows far more about the activities of beggers and low level criminals than you or I do.

paul71 · 29-10-2020 1:50pm

Augeo wrote: »

How do you know his profession?

He has never hidden it on boards.

paul71 · 29-10-2020 1:50pm

Augeo wrote: »

The world is full of people succeeding when things are extremely difficult. €€€s are a great motivator.

So you are aware of fraud. Have you reported it to the Garda?

29-10-2020 1:50pm

paul71 wrote: »

He is correct, have you ever looked at the requirements and evidence needed to establish habitual residence, and he knows far more about the activities of beggers and low level criminals than you or I do.

Does he really?

anyone who reckons no Roma folk in receipt of HAP or SW beg know not much about anything IMO.

You seem very knowledeable about a poster that's not on boards.ie that long.......... are you his wife or something?

Beggars sitting outside shops

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