Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Micky 32

Lundstram wrote: »

Realism.

Lockdown merchants think a vaccine will appear out of nowhere? Doesn’t work like that.

I’m not a lockdown merchant but i’m failrly confident ( from doing actual research and not pulling opinions out of my arse) there will be a vaccine.

josip

MadYaker wrote: »

... Another problem with that is we don't know how long natural immunity lasts and there have been cases of people getting infected a second time.
...

If this is a problem for natural immunity, isn't it also a problem for vaccines?
You will need to develop new vaccines a the same rate that natural immunity is lost, for the same reason.

MadYaker

josip wrote: »

If this is a problem for natural immunity, isn't it also a problem for vaccines?
You will need to develop new vaccines a the same rate that natural immunity is lost, for the same reason.

If that happens it'll be the like the flu vaccine where people get it every year. This doesn't require a new vaccine to be made from scratch, they can just alter it slightly so it keeps up with the way the flu virus mutates. The oxford vaccine group are predicting that their vaccine will provide longer immunity against coronavirus than the flu vaccine does against flu.

pjohnson

MadYaker wrote: »

So much wrong in one post it's hard to know where to start but I'll try.

First of all, herd immunity will happen via a vaccine a lot faster than it will happen by the virus just spreading naturally. Nobody really knows but you'd probably need about 70% or maybe more of the population to have gotten infected to get there and no country, even the USA with all it's cases and deaths, is nowhere near it. Even in NY and other large cities antibody testing finds about 20% - 30% have had it. Another problem with that is we don't know how long natural immunity lasts and there have been cases of people getting infected a second time.

The Swedish aren't pursuing a herd immunity strategy and they will tell you that themselves, because nobody has any idea if it's even possible so it would be insane to try. Mass vaccination with an effective vaccine is generally a well planned, safe event resulting in a good level of herd immunity. We have sidelined numerous diseases this way. The outcome of allowing uncontrolled spread of a virus that can kill people is a lot less predictable, would involve an awful lot of people dying (and not just from covid) because our hospitals simply wouldn't cope and overall it would actually be more damaging to society and economy than the current restrictions.

A vaccine actually is going to come, I'm not sure why some people are trying so hard to convince themselves that it won't happen? Multiple trials are reaching the final stages and it's the quickest way out of this mess.

Mainly because they do love the fear mongering and hysteria so dismiss any vaccine news to keep peddaling this. Also they probably dont understand how vaccines work the same way they dont understand whats currently happening re. virus.

bucketybuck

MadYaker wrote: »

A vaccine actually is going to come, I'm not sure why some people are trying so hard to convince themselves that it won't happen? Multiple trials are reaching the final stages and it's the quickest way out of this mess.

Has there ever been a vaccine for a coronavirus?

MadYaker

bucketybuck wrote: »

Has there ever been a vaccine for a coronavirus?

No. Why would anyone have bothered making a vaccine for a virus that until last november, only existed in bats? It's a very expensive and complicated process.

There was a vaccine in the works for SARS 1 but it wasn't finished by the time that epidemic had subsided. The oxford group used that work as a blueprint for the SARS 2 vaccine they are now working on which is why they had a bit of a head start.

PTH2009

Balls anyway, no way there rejecting it this time

Level 4 nationwide would be better and less a strain on people's mental health

More kicking the can down the road stuff

charlie14

Lundstram wrote: »

Realism.

Lockdown merchants think a vaccine will appear out of nowhere? Doesn’t work like that.

That`s a bit of a sweeping statement is it not ?
Nobody is expecting a vaccine will appear out of nowhere.
Especially when there are at least 3 vaccines presently in the final stages of development with two of them currently under rolling reviews by the E.U and others on their safety and efficacy.

A very good and informative thread here on Boards.ie Covid-19:
Vaccine/Antidote and testing procedures if anyone is interested.

Sweden, the one country who decided to attempt combating this virus by naturally acquired herd immunity do not see vaccines as appearing out of nowhere either.
They have managed (ironically imo considering their previous strategy on immunity) to get themselves to the head of the line and have a commitment for 6 million doses from one supplier.
They announced yesterday they intend to begin vaccinating as early as the beginning of next year and published the order in which the vaccine will be given.

bucketybuck

MadYaker wrote: »

No. Why would anyone have bothered making a vaccine for a virus that until last november, only existed in bats? It's a very expensive and complicated process.

There was a vaccine in the works for SARS 1 but it wasn't finished by the time that epidemic had subsided. The oxford group used that work as a blueprint for the SARS 2 vaccine they are now working on which is why they had a bit of a head start.

So there has never been a vaccine for a coronavirus.

Are you also aware of how long vaccines generally take to develop?

Lundstram

bucketybuck wrote: »

So there has never been a vaccine for a coronavirus.

Are you also aware of how long vaccines generally take to develop?

37 years and counting for AIDS. Prep, which I use myself is an excellent alternative but it’s not a vaccine.

Pie in the sky stuff this vaccine talk. But hey, Madyaker, copied and pasted some stuff from the vaccine thread to here so it’s all going to be ok.

MadYaker

bucketybuck wrote: »

So there has never been a vaccine for a coronavirus.

Are you also aware of how long vaccines generally take to develop?

Yes I am. Looks like this coronavirus vaccine will probably set a record for the fastest development ever, currently held by the Ebola vaccine which took about 4 years I think. Science advances quick, especially when stuff like this happens. The 1918 flu pandemic basically spawned modern microbiology.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Mainly because they do love the fear mongering and hysteria so dismiss any vaccine news to keep peddaling this. Also they probably dont understand how vaccines work the same way they dont understand whats currently happening re. virus.

I'm very clever and understand completely how they work, the history of their applications and limitations..

I don't think we'll see a vaccine anytime soon and even if we did, phrases like "quickest way out" would be a huge red flag for me in terms of taking a jab.

I'll thank you not to lumbar me with the jim corrs and the jerrmey kyle front row just because you claim to know better..

Lundstram

MadYaker wrote: »

Yes I am. Looks like this coronavirus vaccine will probably set a record for the fastest development ever, currently held by the Ebola vaccine which took about 4 years I think. Science advances quick, especially when stuff like this happens. The 1918 flu pandemic basically spawned modern microbiology.

Deluded.

charlie14

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's pointless when the track and trace isn't fit for purpose and we have no exit plan out of it....

It would be a major help if those who are being contacted as close contacts turned up for testing and if there was a penalty for those that do not.
A severe penalty should also apply for those that have been informed they have tested positive but have not quarantined for the required period.

MadYaker

Lundstram wrote: »

Deluded.

Excellent point, you've totally changed my mind. Wow, how could I have been so wrong about everything???

Micky 32

bucketybuck wrote: »

Has there ever been a vaccine for a coronavirus?

Stupid pointless question to be honest. No coronavirus has caused this disruption worldwide so the incentives to produce one wasn’t there.

drunkmonkey

PTH2009 wrote: »

Balls anyway, no way there rejecting it this time

Level 4 nationwide would be better and less a strain on people's mental health

More kicking the can down the road stuff

Oh yes they will, same stunt as the last time, call a 5 we get a 3, this time we get a 4 and Martin still looks good for standing up to NPHET and the schools are open.
Last time it was the pubs now it's the GAA.

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

It would be a major help if those who are being contacted as close contacts turned up for testing and if there was a penalty for those that do not.
A severe penalty should also apply for those that have been informed they have tested positive but have not quarantined for the required period.

Well here’s an idea - guarantee any and all lost income resulting from quarantining, and I guarantee you will have more compliance.

Yes you will always have those that will flout guidelines and the law, that’s reality, like it or not.

But making hundreds of thousands of people sh*t worried about keeping a roof over their kids heads and keeping food on the table will make the risk of being the one in five that gets a bad dose of Covid very attractive odds.

MadYaker

charlie14 wrote: »

It would be a major help if those who are being contacted as close contacts turned up for testing and if there was a penalty for those that do not.
A severe penalty should also apply for those that have been informed they have tested positive but have not quarantined for the required period.

Asian countries are all doing this.

topper75

Lundstram wrote: »

This sums up RTE. The sooner the better they run out of money and disappear.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1316790331841613826?s=21

Boy brings out the protective instinct in me. I think I might have seen him before somewhere...

..did he not appear on one of Himmler's leaflets calling for people to tackle the bolshevik jew menace in the east?

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall of the RTÉ meeting where this tweet was hatched

charlie14

MadYaker wrote: »

Yes I am. Looks like this coronavirus vaccine will probably set a record for the fastest development ever, currently held by the Ebola vaccine which took about 4 years I think. Science advances quick, especially when stuff like this happens. The 1918 flu pandemic basically spawned modern microbiology.

I do not know for yourself and others here who have posted on vaccines here, but I`m heavily leaning towards that old adage : "There are none so blind as those that will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know"

Stormyteacup

rusty cole wrote: »

I'm very clever and understand completely how they work, the history of their a applications and limitations..

I don't think we'll see a vaccine anytime soon and even if we did, phrases like "quickest way out" would be a huge red flag for me in terms of taking a jab.

I'll thank you not to lumbar me with the jim corrs and the jerrmey kyle front row just because you claim to know better..

Yes would also be reluctant to take a rushed vaccine.

But at this point it’s redundant if it’s an effective vaccine or a placebo. It seems it really is the only way out of this madness.

It will likely be only somewhat effective (expectations have already been managed in that the big pharma producers have a disclaimer for any side effects or ineffectiveness already in place).

But it will be a phenomenon with regards to perceived threat level in the general population when it’s announced.

charlie14

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Well here’s an idea - guarantee any and all lost income resulting from quarantining, and I guarantee you will have more compliance.

Yes you will always have those that will flout guidelines and the law, that’s reality, like it or not.

But making hundreds of thousands of people sh*t worried about keeping a roof over their kids heads and keeping food on the table will make the risk of being the one in five that gets a bad dose of Covid very attractive odds.

So what is your proposal ?
We just abandon testing and let the virus spread unhindered.
Doesn`t sound like much of a plan to me, but still I would be interested in how you seeing that playing out.
TBh. I have a feeling maybe, just maybe, you are one of those on here that sounds off at any proposal, yet has none whatsoever yourself.

Plumbthedepths

My son came home from LIT last night. He lives in the student village with two other lads. Each with their own room. The guys have pretty much only stayed in each others company since college started. They went to the shop near their accommodation to buy a few bottles on Tuesday evening. They were challenged in the shop by an elderly female customer as to how dare they have a party and spreading the virus. My son unlike me is a reasonable lad. He explained he and his two friends live in accommodation together and were buying a few bottles to drink while watching a movie. Her response was that's crap ye are having a party. Whereas my reasonable son told her "to **** off and mind her own business". Btw they really were going back their rooms to watch a movie.
The young are the convenient Scape Goat for many groups in society the government and HSE to name two. It's rather pathetic and distrubing.

boetstark

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Oh yes they will, same stunt as the last time, call a 5 we get a 3, this time we get a 4 and Martin still looks good for standing up to NPHET and the schools are open.
Last time it was the pubs now it's the GAA.

I really do not know who to believe at this stage. Do we open up and live with the virus and take our chances with lives and health. Or shut down and possibly cause irreversible damage to economy.
If I had the deciding vote , I would level 5 for 5 weeks. Taking through and just past mid term.
Review if numbers come down and reopen over 3 or 4 weeks and give us a chance of a half normal Xmas. I really think if lockdown is delayed and runs into Xmas period it will have a huge effect on morale.
At the end of the day its people's behaviour that will reduce infections not levels 2 or 5.

CruelSummer

Can the government please not destroy our economy&futures over poor adherence to level 3...what makes anyone think it will be better at level 5. Level 3 is all the North are in right now and most of Europe with curfews and strict adherence required. People are going to go cracked - there will be major societal & mental health issues of a level 5 coming into dark winter months. The media will make sure of it with Christmas is cancelled headlines, horror stories, another Covid special programme from an ICU or nursing home...
Level 5 isn’t something NPHET should keep recommending. What other approaches could they suggest? Or the Government? What about the businesses who reopened at great cost adhering to new guidelines. They deserve to stay open. Just issue fines to people having house parties and breaking the rules continuously - Irish people will play ball if their pocket is hit.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Let me guess, those essential reasons will of course include anything that you yourself decide you want to do? Such as getting mammy to do your washing or to get your daily fry?

Same as when you decided to travel to work just because you could?
.

You are beating the same drum and refusing point blank to acknowledge every time I respond to confirm that I only travel to work, occasionally for essential reasons. I even have an essential worker letter now. I haven’t been near work for a few weeks again and won’t be for the coming week coupled with zero mixing with people I will if needed be calling home for essential reasons like farming and childcare as I do at all times. If there is level 5 then things change and only farming and staying outside would be done.

To be honest we are essentially the same household anyway (it’s also the only address ever to my name). So no rules are broken.

hynesie08 wrote: »

Are you seeing the parents this weekend nox?

Undecided, but likely for farming (an essential reason) as above though we are very intertwined anyway so are essentially the same household and with WFH and not meeting friends I do not introduce risk.

I have kept within every restriction and guideline and gone far beyond them in most instances (not a single pint in a pub or meal in a restaurant for example) so you are braking up the wrong tree making any accusations at me.

drunkmonkey

Mmmm...

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

So what is your proposal ?
We just abandon testing and let the virus spread unhindered.
Doesn`t sound like much of a plan to me, but still I would be interested in how you seeing that playing out.
TBh. I have a feeling maybe, just maybe, you are one of those on here that sounds off at any proposal, yet has none whatsoever yourself.

Not true. I have been posting since thread iteration 2. Plenty of suggestions as this has progressed.

I strongly suspect it is those who have been made poorer during this crisis while watching many in society who have been financially cocooned from effects, that may be more likely to be flouting guidelines. They have been failed miserably and betrayed by their government.

I have always advocated targeted protections. And I don’t mean locking anyone away. I am happy to comply with all precautions in any public place a vulnerable person would have need to visit.

The attitude that it is too difficult to protect residential care homes is lazy and dismissive to those in them.

There has been time to prepare ourselves for this years usual hospital overload, but it has been squandered.

I’m not sure how you arrive at the conclusion I would like to see test and trace abandoned.

If carried out correctly and any loss of income/threat of losing a job, were fully supported financially by government it would be a very useful tool. I’m worried how the only way you think to have greater compliance is with enforcement and fines.

If there were no consequences to anyone quarantining you would have greater compliance.

charlie14

charlie14 wrote: »

So what is your proposal ?
We just abandon testing and let the virus spread unhindered.
Doesn`t sound like much of a plan to me, but still I would be interested in how you seeing that playing out.
TBh. I have a feeling maybe, just maybe, you are one of those on here that sounds off at any proposal, yet has none whatsoever yourself.

At the end of the day it's a disease, like cancer and like diabetes
some are cause by lifestyle and others have a myriad of causes BUT they are all diseases. heart disease kills over 100 people in the USA every HOUR!!!

My point is, they are ALL diseases and deserve treatment. The treatment for this is adding to the requirement for cancer treatment, depression, anxiety disorders etc etc, all diseases...