Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Russman

suicide_circus wrote: »

Well we've known from fairly early on that the deaths being announced daily were of people WITH covid rather than deaths FROM covid. Why continue this charade you ask? I can only guess it was in order to keep up the sense of anxiety within the population. Some would call it psychological warfare. I wouldnt go quite that far but it is certainly a conscious effort to exert control through fear.

Anyone ever come up with a reason for this yet ? Like why almost every sane government around the world would do this just for the craic ? Like why politicians, who want to be popular, would voluntarily crash the economy ?
That’s where the “it’s all a charade” argument falls down imo.

suicide_circus

Russman wrote: »

Anyone ever come up with a reason for this yet ? Like why almost every sane government around the world would do this just for the craic ? Like why politicians, who want to be popular, would voluntarily crash the economy ?
That’s where the “it’s all a charade” argument falls down imo.

I'm not saying the virus is a charade - the way "deaths" are counted is.

robfowler78

Russman wrote: »

Anyone ever come up with a reason for this yet ? Like why almost every sane government around the world would do this just for the craic ? Like why politicians, who want to be popular, would voluntarily crash the economy ?
That’s where the “it’s all a charade” argument falls down imo.

Its certainly not a charade but I think it's not as dangerous as it was first thought. But alot of people have staked there reputations on this been the next plague and a lot of money has been borrowed and spent based of of that it's very hard to go back.

_Kaiser_

Another day, minimal deaths .. and Feargal just said the 2 announced today were from last month. Still playing with the numbers I see.

Tony/NPHET still saying more to be done and the inference being that we'll still have to wait and see if they'll "let" the Government relax things in a few weeks.

FintanMcluskey

Russman wrote: »

Anyone ever come up with a reason for this yet ? Like why almost every sane government around the world would do this just for the craic ? Like why politicians, who want to be popular, would voluntarily crash the economy ?
That’s where the “it’s all a charade” argument falls down imo.

There is no global charade only ineptitude, however, no country implemented the restrictions on its domestic economy for as long as Ireland have done. In fact, I think the current restrictions are still some of the worst regarding retail, hospitality etc.

Where there may be a charade is that NPHET are anti pub, Tony has a history of being vocal about the Irish pub scene and that old saying “never waste a good crisis” comes to mind.

normanoffside

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Another day, minimal deaths .. and Feargal just said the 2 announced today were from last month. Still playing with the numbers I see.

Tony/NPHET still saying more to be done and the inference being that we'll have to still have to wait and see if they'll "let" the Government relax things in a few weeks.

At one point Tony said he hasn't ruled out letting people travel home for Christmas yet.

The guy is having a fcuking laugh. People will travel home for Christmas whether he lets them or not, his only job is to recommended whether they should be asked to get a test or not.

Johnboy1951

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Nailed it! A quiet winter is usually followed by a harsh winter simply because many of the people who would normally die during the flu/cold season had survived the previous winter and hence there are more vulnerable people than usual exposed the following year.

And surprise surprise, 2019 was a notably quiet winter here, so what did we have a lot more of come March/April? Vulnerable people!

I see now George Lee is showing all cause mortality ........ but still seems to be conflating the numbers, with no mention of mild and severe Winters having an effect.

Coillte_Bhoy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

There is no global charade only ineptitude, however, no country implemented the restrictions on its domestic economy for as long as Ireland have done. In fact, I think the current restrictions are still some of the worst regarding retail, hospitality etc.

Where there may be a charade is that NPHET are anti pub, Tony has a history of being vocal about the Irish pub scene and that old saying “never waste a good crisis” comes to mind.

Has he?? Can you provide a few links please

_Kaiser_

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I see now George Lee is showing all cause mortality ........ but still seems to be conflating the numbers, with no mention of mild and severe Winters having an effect.

I was amazed they covered the report/analysis that shows, year on year, CV-19 isn't having much of an impact.

Johnboy1951

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I was amazed they covered the report/analysis that shows, year on year, CV-19 isn't having much of an impact.

Very little rise in death rate ........ but the lockdowns were never about preventing death due to Covid, but more about avoidable deaths due to the health system being overrun by Covid-sick people being hospitalised.

_Kaiser_

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Very little rise in death rate ........ but the lockdowns were never about preventing death due to Covid, but more about avoidable deaths due to the health system being overrun by Covid-sick people being hospitalised.

And yet despite significantly increased cases in the last 6/8 weeks or so, hospitals aren't really much busier either.

Something doesn't add up. Complete overreaction as I've said for about 6 months now.

Johnboy1951

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And yet despite significantly increased cases in the last 6/8 weeks or so, hospitals aren't really much busier either.

Something doesn't add up. Complete overreaction as I've said for about 6 months now.

Well I know there were patients on trollys in a couple of hospitals recently ....... but nothing unusual in that for our health system.

Johnboy1951

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Very little rise in death rate ........ but the lockdowns were never about preventing death due to Covid, but more about avoidable deaths due to the health system being overrun by Covid-sick people being hospitalised.

That sounds like more goalpost shifting.

So we crashed the economy and put half a million out of work to prevent something that never actually happened...

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That sounds like more goalpost shifting.

So we crashed the economy and put half a million out of work to prevent something that never actually happened...

Imagine prevention stopping something from happening :pac:

Micky 32

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And yet despite significantly increased cases in the last 6/8 weeks or so, hospitals aren't really much busier either.

Something doesn't add up. Complete overreaction as I've said for about 6 months now.

This virus does make you wonder. An 80 year old woman with a few health issues that i know very well contracted Covid-19 lately. After reading the threads on this forum and watching the media my first thoughts were “ Christ she’s a gonner”. She breezed through with a bit of a cough. She’s the third elderly person with underlying conditions to come out of it with no after effects either.. their ages 78,80, 85.

It’s a strange virus. Having said that , if you’re old still try and avoid it. Protect yourself.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Imagine prevention stopping something from happening :pac:

What evidence is there that it would have happened? Using flawed models that showed 250000 deaths or 110 in ICU by end of October?

You can’t destroy half a million livelihoods based on “it could happen in a worst case scenario “.

Now that we have proof the deaths are nowhere near as bad as stated, the narrative has changed. We don’t care about deaths now. We just don’t want hospitals over run. Even though it never happened.

FintanMcluskey

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Has he?? Can you provide a few links please

https://alcoholireland.ie/dr-tony-holohan-chief-medical-officer-delivers-the-opening-address-at-alcohol-action-irelands-have-we-bottled-it-alcohol-marketing-and-young-people-conference/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/314731/

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

That sounds like more goalpost shifting.

So we crashed the economy and put half a million out of work to prevent something that never actually happened...

that's quite strange considering the majority of the economy is working and operating fine.

Deleted User wrote: »

What evidence is there that it would have happened? Using flawed models that showed 250000 deaths or 110 in ICU by end of October?

You can’t destroy half a million livelihoods based on “it could happen in a worst case scenario “.

Now that we have proof the deaths are nowhere near as bad as stated, the narrative has changed. We don’t care about deaths now. We just don’t want hospitals over run. Even though it never happened.

which half a million livelyhoods are being destroyed?
in reality most of those people will return to work, either straight away once lock down is lifted or in time.
absolutely you can restrict non-essential things temporarily to protect the country by minimising the spread of a virus that doesn't have to kill or make someone sick to cause general damage including to the very economy you claim to care about.

PTH2009

I wonder will we see a level 2.9-3.5 the first week of Dec

Few more entertainment places allowed operate with limit numbers
Cafes/Restaurants/Pubs allowed open with heavy restrictions
Non Essential retail open with number limits
2 other households can visit houses

Going back to level 3 means **** all as its still massively restrictive

manniot2

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And yet despite significantly increased cases in the last 6/8 weeks or so, hospitals aren't really much busier either.

Something doesn't add up. Complete overreaction as I've said for about 6 months now.

Unfortunately people will never accept the overreaction. It’s easier fool people than convince people they’ve been fooled as Dr Feeney quoted.

manniot2

PTH2009 wrote: »

I wonder will we see a level 2.9-3.5 the first week of Dec

Few more entertainment places allowed operate with limit numbers
Cafes/Restaurants/Pubs allowed open with heavy restrictions
Non Essential retail open with number limits
2 other households can visit houses

Going back to level 3 means **** all as its still massively restrictive

You won’t see an indoor pub or restaurant open in 2020 in this country.

Russman

Deleted User wrote: »

What evidence is there that it would have happened? Using flawed models that showed 250000 deaths or 110 in ICU by end of October?

You can’t destroy half a million livelihoods based on “it could happen in a worst case scenario “.

Now that we have proof the deaths are nowhere near as bad as stated, the narrative has changed. We don’t care about deaths now. We just don’t want hospitals over run. Even though it never happened.

Equally you can't run a country based on "hopefully it won't happen here" - what if it did ?

We don't have proof deaths are lower. Over or under excess deaths isn't proof.

Its not all about deaths anyway, it never really was, its about hospital capacity.

Maybe things didn't get so bad because of the measures we took and kept taking all summer long ?

manniot2

end of the road wrote: »

that's quite strange considering the majority of the economy is working and operating fine.






which half a million livelyhoods are being destroyed?
in reality most of those people will return to work, either straight away once lock down is lifted or in time.
absolutely you can restrict non-essential things temporarily to protect the country by minimising the spread of a virus that doesn't have to kill or make someone sick to cause general damage including to the very economy you claim to care about.

This commentary on the economy is like something a child would write.

FintanMcluskey

manniot2 wrote: »

You won’t see an indoor pub or restaurant open in 2020 in this country.

Not a chance.

New Year’s Eve will be spent watching Tony look concerned on a Ryan Tubridy special countdown broadcast.

FintanMcluskey

Russman wrote: »

Its not all about deaths anyway, it never really was, its about hospital capacity.

Maybe things didn't get so bad because of the measures we took and kept taking all summer long ?

It’s not about deaths???

Since when??? Stay home, save lives.

end of the road

PTH2009 wrote: »

I wonder will we see a level 2.9-3.5 the first week of Dec

Few more entertainment places allowed operate with limit numbers
Cafes/Restaurants/Pubs allowed open with heavy restrictions
Non Essential retail open with number limits
2 other households can visit houses

Going back to level 3 means **** all as its still massively restrictive

but allows most things to open while trying to minimise the spread of the virus.
it's a bit restrictive yes but to be fair we aren't going to be free of restrictions any time soon while this virus could cause damage in the many forms it can including huge economic damage if not controled.

Russman

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s not about deaths???

Since when??? Stay home, save lives.

If you read what I said, I said "its not ALL about deaths..........."

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

that's quite strange considering the majority of the economy is working and operating fine.

Laughable stuff.

Have a look at Ryanair’s 197M losses as just 1 example.
Rural airports in danger of closing.
Ask anyone in retail, entertainment, Tourism and hospitality how much profit they are making.
Ask the banks how much profit they are making. Google BOI and Ulster Bank in particular.

Look at our budget with a 20 billion deficit...

Do I need to continue?

Don't Chute!

end of the road wrote: »

that's quite strange considering the majority of the economy is working and operating fine.






which half a million livelyhoods are being destroyed?
in reality most of those people will return to work, either straight away once lock down is lifted or in time.
absolutely you can restrict non-essential things temporarily to protect the country by minimising the spread of a virus that doesn't have to kill or make someone sick to cause general damage including to the very economy you claim to care about.

Can’t buy clothes
Can’t get a haircut
Can’t go to a coffee shop
Can’t go to a restaurant
Can’t go to the cinema
Can’t stay in a hotel
Can’t go to a pub
Can’t travel
I could go on........

Russman

Russman wrote: »

Equally you can't run a country based on "hopefully it won't happen here" - what if it did ?

We don't have proof deaths are lower. Over or under excess deaths isn't proof.

Its not all about deaths anyway, it never really was, its about hospital capacity.

Maybe things didn't get so bad because of the measures we took and kept taking all summer long ?

We run our country every day based on “hopefully it won’t happen”.

Sure we’d never leave our houses if we based everything on worst case scenarios.