Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

FintanMcluskey

Micky 32 wrote: »

Once again ( unless you’re privileged to have inside info of data results from the companies that hasn’t been released yet) there’s no way you could know this going by opinions being pulled from peoples hoops. I don’t care how educated, brilliant your experts are. I have a very high IQ and i haven’t a clue how the vaccines will pan out so neither do you.

Did ya get tested Micky?

Micky 32

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Did ya get tested Micky?

Yes i did actually. Is that comment a feeble attempt at trying to win an argument?

Anyway the point is that until the results of the trials are officially known it’s all opinions whether it works or not, not factual.

FintanMcluskey

Micky 32 wrote: »

Yes i did actually. Is that comment a feeble attempt at trying to win an argument?

Anyway the point is that until the results of the trials are officially known it’s all opinions whether it works or not, not factual.

The only factual point that can be made about the vaccines is that none are approved yet, and we aren’t sure when they will be.

We also don’t know what it can do if it is approved.

We are however basing our complete response to Covid on a vaccine getting approved, which is still a gamble.

It’s essentially backing your house on a cup final being won by the favourites by more than 3 goals.

Micky 32

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The only factual point that can be made about the vaccines is that none are approved yet, and we aren’t sure when they will be.

We also don’t know what it can do if it is approved.

.

Exactly, so maybe less of the “ there will be no effective vaccine” bolloxogy until the results are out in a month or two. Following the research of the vaccines it’s more positive than negative so far from what i can see. They are giving a good immune response in older people.

JRant

Micky 32 wrote: »

Exactly, so maybe less of the “ there will be no effective vaccine” bolloxogy until the results are out in a month or two. Following the research of the vaccines it’s more positive than negative so far from what i can see. They are giving a good immune response in older people.

I thought I read recently that the older cohort haven't been part of the phase 3 trials but happy to be corrected on it.

bucketybuck

Micky 32 wrote: »

Once again ( unless you’re privileged to have inside info of data results from the companies that hasn’t been released yet) there’s no way you could know this going by opinions being pulled from peoples hoops. I don’t care how educated, brilliant your experts are. I have a very high IQ and i haven’t a clue how the vaccines will pan out so neither do you.

You are wrong. Here is what he said:

as there is no vaccine to this date

If there is no vaccine today then he is correct that there is no vaccine to this date. There is no large IQ needed to read those words.

Micky 32 wrote: »

Yes i did actually. Is that comment a feeble attempt at trying to win an argument?

Like resorting to claims of a high IQ? On the internet no less, where such claims are always respected. :rolleyes:

Micky 32

bucketybuck wrote: »

You are wrong. Here is what he said:



If there is no vaccine today then he is correct that there is no vaccine to this date. There is no large IQ needed to read those words.



Like resorting to claims of a high IQ? On the internet no less, where such claims are always respected. :rolleyes:

Give over will you. His posts are implying throughout the threads that there won’t be a vaccine in the near future when he has no evidence whatsoever basing it on out of hoop opinions and not from the vaccine companies themselves. The results haven’t been released yet on how effective they are and won’t be for another month at least.

robfowler78

Just heard this on the news earlier wondering what people think:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/september-mortality-statistics-broadly-in-line-with-previous-years-cso-says-1.4397600?mode=amp

Strumms

FrStone wrote: »

Ah love, come off it! You do what you want to do and I'll continue to live my life.

At the moment that means to me that I won't be following all the restrictions, I will still be meeting up with friends, going to the pub (albeit through a side entrance), holidaying abroad and travelling more than 5kms to exercise.

I will continue to criticise Tony Holohan (along with NEPHET and others) for their silo approach, incorrect forecasts, incompetence and failings. You also have the right to defend them. You do not have the right to silence criticism.

Great, you’ll have the knives out for the likes of Tony Holohan, a man trying his best in an unprecedented situation of grave importance and difficulty but when it comes your turn to put your shoulder to the wheel..instead you say it’s....

“At the moment that means to me that I won't be following all the restrictions, I will still be meeting up with friends, going to the pub (albeit through a side entrance), holidaying abroad and travelling more than 5kms to exercise.”

So people who may have made errors in your view , gives you the green light to give the middle finger to the entire country ? If we all did that, it would be the end of the country as we know it ffs.

“I’m not adhering to restrictions because x person got y wrong”... ok, I know 5 year olds mature enough to say that is wrong.

3xh

robfowler78 wrote: »

Just heard this on the news earlier wondering what people think:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/september-mortality-statistics-broadly-in-line-with-previous-years-cso-says-1.4397600?mode=amp

Just heard this too. I felt Dobson was almost disappointed in the guest’s answers.

Although ~1900 have died with Covid according to official sources, the excess annual figure suggests many of those (about 1000) would’ve died before September anyway.

And that currently, death figures being registered from September onwards, are in line with previous years. So no appreciable link to Covid causing early, unforeseen deaths in our population (from September onwards, yet here we are in Level 5, Red Alert)

NPHET and RTÉ will be devastated and working on a counter strategy.

bucketybuck

Micky 32 wrote: »

Give over will you. His posts are implying

Here are the words he used, quoted for posterity:

patnor1011 wrote: »

as there is no vaccine to this date

Jump up and down and wave your high IQ around all you want, but his words were very straightforward and easy to understand.

Micky 32

bucketybuck wrote: »

Here are the words he used, quoted for posterity:


Jump up and down and wave your high IQ around all you want, but his words were very straightforward and easy to understand.

Maybe you should go back on the threads and qoute some of his other posts along with the other cohorts that imply there will be no vaccines for years? I’m quite sure you’ll be jumping up and down doing that.

By the way there are vaccines but they haven’t gone through the approval process yet. You really should educate yourself a little on the vaccines. There’s a good thread on here all about them. We might see less nonsense posted on here then.

PTH2009

I can see the restrictions been leesent a bit for Christmas and it will do so much for the Government/NPHET and Dr Tony's egos

'ah were going to be sound and let you all enjoy Christmas but still be good little boys and girls'

Seanachai

PTH2009 wrote: »

I can see the restrictions been leesent a bit for Christmas and it will do so much for the Government/NPHET and Dr Tony's egos

It'll be like a load of dogs from a pound being let loose on a ranch.

xabi

robfowler78 wrote: »

Just heard this on the news earlier wondering what people think:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/september-mortality-statistics-broadly-in-line-with-previous-years-cso-says-1.4397600?mode=amp

Means very little with 14 COVID deaths in September

robfowler78

3xh wrote: »

Just heard this too. I felt Dobson was almost disappointed in the guest’s answers.

Although ~1900 have died with Covid according to official sources, the excess annual figure suggests many of those (about 1000) would’ve died before September anyway.

And that currently, death figures being registered from September onwards, are in line with previous years. So no appreciable link to Covid causing early, unforeseen deaths in our population (from September onwards, yet here we are in Level 5, Red Alert)

NPHET and RTÉ will be devastated and working on a counter strategy.

Seems stories like this don't get much coverage. I would of thought no excess deaths would be a sign that some restrictions were working but maybe not.

3xh

xabi wrote: »

Means very little with 14 COVID deaths in September

Respect to anyone who succumbs to this virus but the way we see any and all deaths that can be attributed to Covid, however tenuous, being added and announced in the daily figures but then quietly ‘denotified’ months later, I’d love to know how many of these 14 will remain on the list.

It’s telling you, I and everyone else will never know!

robfowler78

xabi wrote: »

Means very little with 14 COVID deaths in September

I disagree I think when this is all over the excess deaths will play a large part in quantifying covid impact.

3xh

robfowler78 wrote: »

I would of thought no excess deaths would be a sign that some restrictions were working but maybe not.

I’m not so sure that’d be it.

Covid is new in 2020 as a reason for deaths, compared to 2019.

You’d need to look at other death reasons like road fatalities, workplace accidents, heart attacks, etc etc and see if they are currently the same as last year (September onwards, as per what that Guest referred to)

But bear in mind, if 14 people died in September 2020 with Covid, that level of excess deaths is minuscule to attribute ‘increased excess deaths due to Covid’ to.

To me, the point the Guest made was that for all the highlighting of ~1900 deaths so far and that therefore it’s this killer of whatever magnitude, about 1000 were going to die within the March to September period anyway. With or without Covid.

Which is where we get this argument among posters about who are we to kill someone’s elderly relative a few months earlier than expected, just wear your mask and help out, etc.

I note, from the HSE released figures, many of the initial deaths occurred in nursing homes, not hospitals. So they weren’t even transferred to hospital when their condition worsened.

This Covid is just not this grim reaper type virus that’s being made out it is. Especially from September 2020 onwards.

average_runner

PTH2009 wrote: »

I can see the restrictions been leesent a bit for Christmas and it will do so much for the Government/NPHET and Dr Tony's egos

'ah were going to be sound and let you all enjoy Christmas but still be good little boys and girls'

Problem is we won't be good little boys or girls.
When did Ireland ever have any cop on?

suicide_circus

robfowler78 wrote: »

Just heard this on the news earlier wondering what people think:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/september-mortality-statistics-broadly-in-line-with-previous-years-cso-says-1.4397600?mode=amp

Well we've known from fairly early on that the deaths being announced daily were of people WITH covid rather than deaths FROM covid. Why continue this charade you ask? I can only guess it was in order to keep up the sense of anxiety within the population. Some would call it psychological warfare. I wouldnt go quite that far but it is certainly a conscious effort to exert control through fear.

Johnboy1951

robfowler78 wrote: »

Just heard this on the news earlier wondering what people think:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/september-mortality-statistics-broadly-in-line-with-previous-years-cso-says-1.4397600?mode=amp

This has been well known for those who take an interest in such things.
Ivor Cummins (youtube videos) has about beaten this to death with figures, graphs, comparisons and hypotheses.
It has also been shown that lockdowns make no real difference once the virus is in the community, because it just keeps on rolling once a lockdown is eased.

Somewhat similar trends are to be seen in the UK, for those who look at the numbers.
TalkRadio (UK) also have shown this and questioned ministers on air about it.

Some Winters have been mild, with a consequent drop in the number of deaths during the period, but if the following Winter is harsh there is a substantial increase in the death rate.

So, besides a spike in death rates during the pandemic (April/May) due to Covid being a novel virus which none of us were protected against, the death rates have fallen quickly to essentially track other years' rates.

I expect a substantial rise in deaths during this Winter if it is harsh, but not a great rise if we get another mild Winter.

robfowler78

3xh wrote: »

I’m not so sure that’d be it.

Covid is new in 2020 as a reason for deaths, compared to 2019.

You’d need to look at other death reasons like road fatalities, workplace accidents, heart attacks, etc etc and see if they are currently the same as last year (September onwards, as per what that Guest referred to)

But bear in mind, if 14 people died in September 2020 with Covid, that level of excess deaths is minuscule to attribute ‘increased excess deaths due to Covid’ to.

To me, the point the Guest made was that for all the highlighting of ~1900 deaths so far and that therefore it’s this killer of whatever magnitude, about 1000 were going to die within the March to September period anyway. With or without Covid.

Which is where we get this argument among posters about who are we to kill someone’s elderly relative a few months earlier than expected, just wear your mask and help out, etc.

I note, from the HSE released figures, many of the initial deaths occurred in nursing homes, not hospitals. So they weren’t even transferred to hospital when their condition worsened.

This Covid is just not this grim reaper type virus that’s being made out it is. Especially from September 2020 onwards.

I agree with you.

Don't Chute!

average_runner wrote: »

Problem is we won't be good little boys or girls.
When did Ireland ever have any cop on?

Oh will you give this **** over. Nobody is stopping you from emigrating.

Captain_Crash

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Some Winters have been mild, with a consequent drop in the number of deaths during the period, but if the following Winter is harsh there is a substantial increase in the death rate.

Nailed it! A quiet winter is usually followed by a harsh winter simply because many of the people who would normally die during the flu/cold season had survived the previous winter and hence there are more vulnerable people than usual exposed the following year.

And surprise surprise, 2019 was a notably quiet winter here, so what did we have a lot more of come March/April? Vulnerable people!

josip

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Oh will you give this **** over. Nobody is stopping you from emigrating.

That's an interesting point. Are you allowed travel more than 5km to an airport/port in Level 5?
It's not on the list of allowed reasons.


https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#domestic-travel-restrictions

funnydoggy

suicide_circus wrote: »

Well we've known from fairly early on that the deaths being announced daily were of people WITH covid rather than deaths FROM covid. Why continue this charade you ask? I can only guess it was in order to keep up the sense of anxiety within the population. Some would call it psychological warfare. I wouldnt go quite that far but it is certainly a conscious effort to exert control through fear.

Really? :eek:

suicide_circus

funnydoggy wrote: »

Really? :eek:

No word of a lie!

3xh

josip wrote: »

That's an interesting point. Are you allowed travel more than 5km to an airport/port in Level 5?
It's not on the list of allowed reasons.


https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#domestic-travel-restrictions

You’re allowed travel beyond 5km for ANYTHING other than exercise. The 5km limit for exercise only was deliberately conflated with all the other restrictions. The media played their role in it honourably.

One of the ‘reasonable excuses’ is travelling to an airport/port to leave the state.

Bon voyage.

Plumbthedepths

average_runner wrote: »

Problem is we won't be good little boys or girls.
When did Ireland ever have any cop on?

I believe England is handling things better than us, so are the Czech Republic. There's two places you should consider emigrating to since you have such an issue with this country.