Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Zebra3

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Would hands down believe that having seen and listened to him. He's a geek with an accidental megaphone. I've not seen the likes of him since I was in the bowels of the UCD Science block.

I was in North Korea on holidays a few years ago.

Even people there have head of Messi.

The only people who haven't heard of Messi live in remote deserts or rainforests.

TRANQUILLO

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Imagine you had no smartphone, no social media, no tv and you pottered around doing your daily routine. Imagine it was 1920. You wouldn't see or hear of any problem. There are no bodies on the streets. No mass graves. No teenagers in rude health suddenly collapsing completely unable to breathe.

We have been browbeaten and gaslighted into believing this is way more dangerous than it is. The politicians cant stick or twist until they have the panacea of a vaccine. They completely snookered themselves. Social media and the mainstream media has them by the short and curlies. Its a vicious circle of hysteria and over reaction. Click bait and then government pandering. It doesn't stand up to rudimentary back of a napkin scrutiny. The whole thing is a completely fraudulent misguided exercise. It will be a shocking episode of reeeling in the years in a decade or so when we look back on how we collectively lost our minds.

How well the government does now is solely indexed to covid policy. The numbers are read out each night like football scores.

Coupled with the fact that good faith conversation and debate has long since gone out of fashion and we are left with this circus. People obfuscating to win arguments online instead of actually getting into the weeds and trying to figure it out together. People who will ridicule and undermine your point because you said the median age was 84 instead of 83 rendering further discussion void.

I put 4 piss takers on ignore tonight because its simply not worth it.

There is no point entering into a conversation unless you are open to potentially having your mind changed too.

All we have is a load of people who want to say " GOTCHA"

Just to follow up on this.

Anders Tegnell in Sweden doesn't have to worry about being re-elected . He has a job to do. The politicians over there have largely stayed out of it.

Donnelly et al have to be seen to be doing something because they want another gig down the track. They have muddled the message. Muddled the application of the strategy. Remember the cheek of his press officer saying the media couldn't ask questions about golf gate. Who do these guys think they are.

Its all a big game and we don't have time for games....not with this. This isn't fishing quotas or contract tender back handers.

walus

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Just to follow up on this.

Anders Tegnell in Sweden doesn't have to worry about being re-elected . He has a job to do. The politicians over there have largely stayed out of it.

Donnelly et al have to be seen to be doing something because they want another gig down the track. They have muddled the message. Muddled the application of the strategy. Remember the cheek of his press officer saying the media couldn't ask questions about golf gate. Who do these guys think they are.

Its all a big game and we don't have time for games....not with this. This isn't fishing quotas or contract tender back handers.

I bet Tegnell knows who Messi is though. He also knows a thing or two about broad public health.

Rrrrrr2

Zebra3 wrote: »

I was in North Korea on holidays a few years ago.

Even people there have head of Messi.

The only people who haven't heard of Messi live in remote deserts or rainforests.

That was handy- least you’re somewhat prepared then for live in Ireland 2020!

Rrrrrr2

€25 billion cost to state to date for this farce- wow.

completedit

Once again, what developments in terms of Covid deaths/propensity to overburden the healthcare system would cause ''saint'' Tony and Co to renege on their Covid approach and embrace a more realistic/palpable 'living with covid'? I think it's an extremely important question that has barely featured. Because it has wider implications as to the reach of government in estimating and making decision on behalf of citizens in terms of risk.

Quantum Erasure

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

I put 4 piss takers on ignore tonight because its simply not worth it.

There is no point entering into a conversation unless you are open to potentially having your mind changed too.

All we have is a load of people who want to say " GOTCHA"

I suppose that's why you never answered this:

Penfailed wrote: »

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

There is no pandemic anymore by definition. Its barely an epidemic by definition.

The WHO definition.
[I am open to check elsewhere if you have suggestions.]

...which is? I'm curious.

Maybe because they don't have an actual concrete definition of a pandemic, and they've abandoned the 'levels' of outbreak definition they used to have, with level 6 being pandemic...

Here's the text of the announcement of covid being classed a pandemic, 11 March
https://www.who.int/director-general/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---11-march-2020

...
WHO has been assessing this outbreak around the clock and we are deeply concerned both by the alarming levels of spread and severity, and by the alarming levels of inaction.

We have therefore made the assessment that COVID-19 can be characterized as a pandemic.

Pandemic is not a word to use lightly or carelessly....

Describing the situation as a pandemic does not change WHO’s assessment of the threat posed by this virus. It doesn’t change what WHO is doing, and it doesn’t change what countries should do.
...

Theres this from last week from the WHO COVID19 Technical lead
"There are many things that we can continue to do as this pandemic unfolds..."

https://mobile.twitter.com/WHO/status/1319254822458195968



Edit: here's a quick summary of the WHO definitions in 2009, 2005 and 1999, regarding an influenza pandemic

https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/7/BLT-11-086173-table-T1.html

Multipass

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

€25 billion cost to state to date for this farce- wow.

They could have isolated every nursing home patient in luxury, with a private permanent carer each, and had plenty of change left over.

TRANQUILLO

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Imagine you had no smartphone, no social media, no tv and you pottered around doing your daily routine. Imagine it was 1920. You wouldn't see or hear of any problem. There are no bodies on the streets. No mass graves. No teenagers in rude health suddenly collapsing completely unable to breathe.

We have been browbeaten and gaslighted into believing this is way more dangerous than it is. The politicians cant stick or twist until they have the panacea of a vaccine. They completely snookered themselves. Social media and the mainstream media has them by the short and curlies. Its a vicious circle of hysteria and over reaction. Click bait and then government pandering. It doesn't stand up to rudimentary back of a napkin scrutiny. The whole thing is a completely fraudulent misguided exercise. It will be a shocking episode of reeeling in the years in a decade or so when we look back on how we collectively lost our minds.

How well the government does now is solely indexed to covid policy. The numbers are read out each night like football scores.

Coupled with the fact that good faith conversation and debate has long since gone out of fashion and we are left with this circus. People obfuscating to win arguments online instead of actually getting into the weeds and trying to figure it out together. People who will ridicule and undermine your point because you said the median age was 84 instead of 83 rendering further discussion void.

I put 4 piss takers on ignore tonight because its simply not worth it.

There is no point entering into a conversation unless you are open to potentially having your mind changed too.

All we have is a load of people who want to say "GOTCHA"

Post of the month right there..1000000%

Rrrrrr2

According to geeky freaky Ryan this is a great day for all folks

Rrrrrr2

12 week lockdown- now let me think when was that tried before?

froog

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Imagine you had no smartphone, no social media, no tv and you pottered around doing your daily routine. Imagine it was 1920. You wouldn't see or hear of any problem. There are no bodies on the streets. No mass graves. No teenagers in rude health suddenly collapsing completely unable to breathe.

We have been browbeaten and gaslighted into believing this is way more dangerous than it is. The politicians cant stick or twist until they have the panacea of a vaccine. They completely snookered themselves. Social media and the mainstream media has them by the short and curlies. Its a vicious circle of hysteria and over reaction. Click bait and then government pandering. It doesn't stand up to rudimentary back of a napkin scrutiny. The whole thing is a completely fraudulent misguided exercise. It will be a shocking episode of reeeling in the years in a decade or so when we look back on how we collectively lost our minds.

How well the government does now is solely indexed to covid policy. The numbers are read out each night like football scores.

Coupled with the fact that good faith conversation and debate has long since gone out of fashion and we are left with this circus. People obfuscating to win arguments online instead of actually getting into the weeds and trying to figure it out together. People who will ridicule and undermine your point because you said the median age was 84 instead of 83 rendering further discussion void.

I put 4 piss takers on ignore tonight because its simply not worth it.

There is no point entering into a conversation unless you are open to potentially having your mind changed too.

All we have is a load of people who want to say "GOTCHA"

Quantum Erasure

Don't post stuff like this if you don't want to get called out on it

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

There is no pandemic anymore by definition. Its barely an epidemic by definition.

(Someone quote my post above, I think he has me on ignore, I feel honoured)

Rrrrrr2

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

According to geeky freaky Ryan this is a great day for all folks

He'll never be a john dalton, rutherford, newton, jenner, darwin, franklin, davy, locke, voltaire, gardener, einstein or mendelev to name a few...they had brains and clout he has a big mouth..he is like a broken clock and a badly presented one...he needs to foook off..

Cluedo Monopoly

retro:electro wrote: »

There was a retired pathologist from the UK on Prime Time just now talking the height of sense. We need to do away with these infantilising lockdowns and make our own risk assessments. He said if it’s the case that your health service can’t cope then you need to invest more in your health service. How many years now have our hospitals been busting at the seams from September to March? Headline news every winter year in and year out yet nothing is ever done. We are being locked down and punished because we have a health service so fragile it cannot cope with the slightest bit of pressure. Businesses closed, people out of work and jobs permanently lost because our hospitals are non functional to begin with.

These articles are from November 2019.

https://www.inmo.ie/Home/Index/217/13549

2019 has seen the highest number of patients on trolleys in any year since records began – despite it still being November.

As of today, 108,364 people have gone without beds in 2019 so far – breaking 2018’s record high of 108,227, with a full month left to go in the year.

“Winter has only just begun and the record is already broken. These statistics are the hallmark of a wildly bureaucratic health service, which is failing staff and patients alike.

“We take no pleasure in having to record these figures for a decade and a half. We know the problem, but we also know the solutions: extra beds in hospitals, safe staffing levels, and more step-down and community care outside of the hospital.

Years of neglect by FF and FG and a dysfunctional HSE have culminated in reactive lockdowns because our health system is not fit for purpose and a black hole of financial waste.

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2019/1105/1088787-trolley-figures/

The INMO has described hospital overcrowding as "obscene" with trolley figures showing 679 patients waiting for a bed, the second highest recorded and the worst so far this year.

The Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation said the hospitals worst affected are University Hospital Limerick with 63 patients on trolleys, University Hospital Cork with 60; Letterkenny University Hospital with 47 and South Tipperary General Hospital with 40.

FF + FG stood idly by every single winter when our front line healthcare workers were swamped. Shameful.

Rrrrrr2

Multipass wrote: »

They could have isolated every nursing home patient in luxury, with a private permanent carer each, and had plenty of change left over.

Apparently the state spending increase has been the highest in Europe to date per capita. There is going to be fun when that has to be paired back.

NIMAN

Heard on The Last Word the other day that this 6 week lockdown will cost €2bn.

Rrrrrr2

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Would hands down believe that having seen and listened to him. He's a geek with an accidental megaphone. I've not seen the likes of him since I was in the bowels of the UCD Science block.

one of the casualties of the French revolution was the marching up to the guillotine of a great chemist in Antoine Lavoisier, very sad casualty of war indeed.

Ryan, O'neil and conkey could not hold a candle to him and so i'd be happy to hold the basket for them.....

Penfailed

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Imagine you had no smartphone, no social media, no tv and you pottered around doing your daily routine. Imagine it was 1920. You wouldn't see or hear of any problem. There are no bodies on the streets. No mass graves. No teenagers in rude health suddenly collapsing completely unable to breathe.

We have been browbeaten and gaslighted into believing this is way more dangerous than it is. The politicians cant stick or twist until they have the panacea of a vaccine. They completely snookered themselves. Social media and the mainstream media has them by the short and curlies. Its a vicious circle of hysteria and over reaction. Click bait and then government pandering. It doesn't stand up to rudimentary back of a napkin scrutiny. The whole thing is a completely fraudulent misguided exercise. It will be a shocking episode of reeeling in the years in a decade or so when we look back on how we collectively lost our minds.

How well the government does now is solely indexed to covid policy. The numbers are read out each night like football scores.

Coupled with the fact that good faith conversation and debate has long since gone out of fashion and we are left with this circus. People obfuscating to win arguments online instead of actually getting into the weeds and trying to figure it out together. People who will ridicule and undermine your point because you said the median age was 84 instead of 83 rendering further discussion void.

I put 4 piss takers on ignore tonight because its simply not worth it.

There is no point entering into a conversation unless you are open to potentially having your mind changed too.

All we have is a load of people who want to say "GOTCHA"

In 1920 you wouldn't have had a job in the airline industry either. Sorry for you and your family losing your jobs by the way. I feel that the result of that has greatly coloured your opinion on everything Covid related. Attacking NPHET when it's the government you should be angry with. Putting people on ignore because you can't turn them around to your way of thinking. I suppose there's a good chance you'll not see this if I'm on the ignore list...but if you do, I wish you well.

bucketybuck

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Boards.ie does not have that many sociopaths posting in one forum at the same time. We are just normal people saying the facts and the narrative don't add up.

What it does have is the demographic of any message board in 2020, namely a lot of middle aged men and women.

In other words, people more likely to be settled, more likely to be in IT, more likely to be working from home and less likely to be affected by the current restrictions.

I wouldn't take this echo chamber too seriously, I suspect the younger generation, those seeing their futures mortgaged on the basis of fear and hysteria, they aren't posting here. If they were I suspect a few smug ***** would be getting a few home truths.

Idbatterim

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Apparently the state spending increase has been the highest in Europe to date per capita. There is going to be fun when that has to be paired back.

Lol! Lol! Sinking the place again, top of the class wheh it comes to economic mismanagement! At least its all with free money though....

They pushed back the pension age increase again, wonder at what point in 2021 it becomes clear how catastrohic this will and has been financially and then throw in the epic mismanagement. If the austerity budgets start, while covid is still with us, lol!

Its like a tree in the storm everything appears rock solid, until that final gust that breaks it like a match stick...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/how-long-can-government-afford-to-keep-state-pension-age-at-66-1.4386414?mode=amp

LessOutragePlz

Question for everyone in the thread:

I like to swim all year round but the nearest beach to me is outside 5km should I be fined or told to go back home for my behaviour.

I'd like to add that I'll be doing this on my own and shouldn't come in contact with anyone.

Penfailed

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Question for everyone in the thread:

I like to swim all year round but the nearest beach to me is outside 5km should I be fined or told to go back home for my behaviour.

I'd like to add that I'll be doing this on my own and shouldn't come in contact with anyone.

You might be. Who knows. It really depends on the chances of being stopped and then the chances of what kind of humour the Guard is in if you get stopped. How far outside the 5km is it? The further away, the more chance of issues.

Whatsisname

bucketybuck wrote: »

What it does have is the demographic of any message board in 2020, namely a lot of middle aged men and women.

In other words, people more likely to be settled, more likely to be in IT, more likely to be working from home and less likely to be affected by the current restrictions.

I wouldn't take this echo chamber too seriously, I suspect the younger generation, those seeing their futures mortgaged on the basis of fear and hysteria, they aren't posting here. If they were I suspect a few smug ***** would be getting a few home truths.

I’m in my mid 20s and tbh, practically everyone I know my age and younger seems to be giddy with the new restrictions. Thankfully for me I don’t live in Ireland anymore and have no intentions of returning home anytime soon. My social media was full of “lockdown eve” and how “if we did it once, we can do it again, better this time” and the like last night. Nobody my age seems to want to even discuss the possibility that these lockdowns have dire consequences as you’ll be labelled “right wing” “anti mask” “granny killer” and all those other ridiculous terms.

I would imagine reddit has a younger demographic than boards and the Ireland subreddit is embarrassing right now. They’ve been screaming for more restrictions for months and encouraging police brutality on anyone who protests against lockdowns. It’s a full on asylum over there.

My generation should be angrier right now but they’re seemingly happy to roll over. It’s sad.

normanoffside

Multipass wrote: »

They could have isolated every nursing home patient in luxury, with a private permanent carer each, and had plenty of change left over.

And built and staffed a few new hospitals with change left over for a Metro or two.

Real Donald Trump

Hear hear!

dabrisin

I live on my own and am in my mid seventies. My son lives in Du blin approximately 190km from me. With this social bubble arrangement can I get in my car and go and spend a few days with him and his family when I feel the need, or is it that I have to stay at home and he comes to me. It doesn't seem to be clear to me and I'm nervous about setting out and being turned back. Thanks for any advice.

Widdensushi

dabrisin wrote: »

I live on my own and am in my mid seventies. My son lives in Du blin approximately 190km from me. With this social bubble arrangement can I get in my car and go and spend a few days with him and his family when I feel the need, or is it that I have to stay at home and he comes to me. It doesn't seem to be clear to me and I'm nervous about setting out and being turned back. Thanks for any advice.

I think the bubble is specifically aimed at single or separated parents, you won't fall under it.l think can come to 'care' for you, I can see no reason why you cannot go to him for them to care for you but a guard might take view that if you are driving to them that you can care for yourself.

patnor1011

dabrisin wrote: »

I live on my own and am in my mid seventies. My son lives in Du blin approximately 190km from me. With this social bubble arrangement can I get in my car and go and spend a few days with him and his family when I feel the need, or is it that I have to stay at home and he comes to me. It doesn't seem to be clear to me and I'm nervous about setting out and being turned back. Thanks for any advice.

This is exactly what is wrong with what is going on. These restrictions for something and exceptions for something else is complete nonsense.
People are confused and expect gardai to decide about something while they are equally or even more confused. Them on the streets is just a PR exercise for the government to show that they are doing something.

To be honest, since there is no clear explanation you should go and if stopped maintain that current guidelines are permitting you to do that. If you do it in a civilized manner with a straight face I would bet good money that no garda is going to argue with you as they themselves are lost in this rubbish.

zerosugarbuzz

dabrisin wrote: »

I live on my own and am in my mid seventies. My son lives in Du blin approximately 190km from me. With this social bubble arrangement can I get in my car and go and spend a few days with him and his family when I feel the need, or is it that I have to stay at home and he comes to me. It doesn't seem to be clear to me and I'm nervous about setting out and being turned back. Thanks for any advice.

You can get in your car and visit your son, or, he can visit you. Try not to get too bogged down with the detail. If you get stopped tell the guard it is for an essential family visit. Good luck and enjoy.