Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Quantum Erasure

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Moribund 84 year old Granny Margaret is getting 2 years extra of life at the cost of 40 year old father of three John who takes his own life after his business is ruined and he is 80k in debt.

Source?

martingriff

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Kind of a Patrick Swayze rhythm you go for is it Martin?

Nah Peter Andre but with a round pack

Quantum Erasure

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

There is no pandemic anymore by definition. Its barely an epidemic by definition.

What's the definition your going with?

TRANQUILLO

Deleted User wrote: »

Much as your situation isn't ideal, you do have to take into consideration, of course, that NPHET are a health team. They have expertise in health. They don't care about your job, they care about your health.

They will happily close your business and shoot your dog if it keeps you healthy. Their opinion should be taken as part of a larger group of opinions, given to government, and the government then decide the best overall approach.

I don't understand getting angry at health experts who focus specifically on health. There are other groups out there that focus on the economy, etc. but at the start of all this, the government's stumbling, squabbling and in-fighting meant they gave NPHET the spotlight for a while, and they effectively replaced the government and gained a lot of political weight, perhaps not on purpose, but it happened nonetheless. Now their opinion carries significantly more weight than any other groups opinion, as a result.



That said, I do think this level 5 will be a shambles, will make no difference, and perhaps be called off after 3-4 weeks. It's lenient in the extreme. No one even noticed level 3 came in, and level 5 has practically every 2nd shop open under the premise of 'click and collect'. Part of me thinks the government are just running with it so, when the numbers don't come down, they can then have a reason to ignore NPHET advice going forward.

Irish stats:

99.9 percent survival rate.
average age of death 82
median age 84

Protecting me from what exactly?

Having unprotected sex or playing a game of rugby are a bigger risk to my life than this .

This is a farce.

TRANQUILLO

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

What's the definition your going with?

The WHO definition.

I am open to check elsewhere if you have suggestions.

Pandemics and epidemics have vertical fatality data curves . The curve here has been essentially flat since May.

And before someone chimes in with " that's because we locked down".

The trend of the graphs are the same in Sweden and other non lockdown countries also.

In fact when you superimpose the data from all countries with their different green lists, mask adoption and lockdown rules on top of each other their graphs are all the same regardless of mitigation strategies . It's remarkable.

walus

martingriff wrote: »

No he is not. You know what fire away if it makes you feel better. Some here need to switch off boards twitter facebook and news/talk shows Anyway I am out of here and watching soccer

You are right, he is not the government. But could one explain to me how one man being out for months returns to nphet and overnight changes it’s advice from level 2 to level 5. What does he know that other 40 guys didn’t know that makes the advice so dramatically different?

I think that nphet is dysfunctional in many ways.

His influence over the government is due to political fragility of the cabinet. Everybody is watching them and cheering any time they slip up. And because they have no core principles they slip up a lot.

TRANQUILLO

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Source?

What?

KennisWhale

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Irish stats:

99.9 percent survival rate.
average age of death 82
median age 84

Protecting me from what exactly?

Having unprotected sex or playing a game of rugby are a bigger risk to my life than this .

This is a farce.

I think it's struggling when held up against the epidemic definition as there isn't a lot of people actually suffering with it for one. In fact, have that many actually suffered with it in general to justify its epidemic tag? To me it feels like it should be relegated down the chain of health concerns and society reopened.

Quantum Erasure

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

What?

The total number of suicides annually compared to deaths from covid (or lives saved) is small, If theres a rise in suicides it'll be negligible

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Why post such absolute sh/te? If you disagree with him, do, but this kinda personal childish stuff that makes no sense just makes you look like an idiot.


For what it's worth, I am not a Nox fan in general, but I do agree with his non-essential feelings towards gyms (yeah, I'm overweight and have a complex). You can pick up gym gear for home training, or recreate the majority of gym activities with stuff around the house.


They don't provide anything that you can't live without. I'd perhaps side with swimming pools being allowed open, as you can't generally swim up and down the main street of your town (unless you live in parts of Cork, perhaps).

Nox will dump you by valentines day there ok so save your loyalty and read his/her messages..whats childish about it? The fact that i profiled nox and you could relate??. It wasnt aimed at you and if you can replicate your gym requirements with elastics and puddles then good for you, i can and have too..i have no time for anyone who trivialises a persons leisure time or pursuits when a body relies on them for mental and physical fitness. Id rather they were honest and said yiu know what i cannot relate and have no opinion either way...and if you found my post offensive personally...then apologies to you..thats not my intention. So sorry kkv to you..but only you

TRANQUILLO

KennisWhale wrote: »

I think it's struggling when held up against the epidemic definition as there isn't a lot of people actually suffering with it for one. In fact, have that many actually suffered with it in general to justify its epidemic tag? To me it feels like it should be relegated down the chain of health concerns and society reopened.

As in it isn't what it is purported to be.

Its obviously a nasty thing to catch and it knocked the bollox out of the old and infirm but they were going to be got anyway by something.

Washing the hands and the alcohol in every doorway has more than done enough to redress it.

All we talk about now is case numbers and it doesn't translate to any sort of equivalent death rate.

snowcat

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Moribund 84 year old Granny Margaret is getting 2 years extra of life at the cost of 40 year old father of three John who takes his own life after his business is ruined and he is 80k in debt.

We had 2 people pulled out of the shannon yesterday. (They did not fall in) One dead one survived. They were not on the national news. But thats ok because they were not one of the Covid deaths. But that may be revised upwards if is found out they were covid positive.

FintanMcluskey

KennisWhale wrote: »

I think it's struggling when held up against the epidemic definition as there isn't a lot of people actually suffering with it for one. In fact, have that many actually suffered with it in general to justify its epidemic tag? To me it feels like it should be relegated down the chain of health concerns and society reopened.

I wonder how many staff in the nursing home in Ahascragh are actually sick.


Once upon a time if you woke up in the morning and felt fine you went to work.

TRANQUILLO

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

The total number of suicides annually compared to deaths from covid (or lives saved) is small, If theres a rise in suicides it'll be negligible

Someone is losing 30 or 40 years of life to give the other person 2 or 3. Thats the point.


Put all the 80 year olds and vulnerable in the Shelbourne, Westbury and Conrad hotel with a team of doctors and it will be cheaper than what we are doing.

walus

snowcat wrote: »

We had 2 people pulled out of the shannon yesterday. (They did not fall in) One dead one survived. They were not on the national news. But thats ok because they were not one of the Covid deaths. But that may be revised upwards if is found out they were covid positive.

I don’t think that there is any doubt that the death toll due to an overreaction to cv-19 will surpass the actual number of deaths from covid. It is only a question of time.

TRANQUILLO

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I wonder how many staff in the nursing home in Ahascragh are actually sick.


Once upon a time if you woke up in the morning and feel fine you went to work.

Pre social media we don't get ourselves into this mess.

You see it with certain other social justice movements that affect a minuscule proportion of people and they are blown up with hysteria and tantrums until they have to be legislated for.

In the 80's we would have said " there is a bad dose going around" and we'd have carried on . Im convinced that is how we would have acted.


I laugh at lads on here quoting IFR and CFR numbers and moralising to everyone from ivory towers.
Click on their username and look at their posting history pre-covid. They knew nothing about anything in this field.

I don't know if they'd talk like this face to face. Sometimes I wonder if the people who are replying to my posts are 16 years old.

FintanMcluskey

walus wrote: »

I don’t think that there is any doubt that the death toll due to an overreaction to cv-19 will surpass the actual number of deaths from covid. It is only a question of time.

I read before a matrix exists of life years in medical terms.

Something along the lines of an 84 year old doesn’t have many but a 30 year old has 50 life years left.

So essentially ten 84 year olds is ... You get the picture

I’ll try and link the piece I read, I might not have that completely correct

JimToken

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Someone is losing 30 or 40 years of life to give the other person 2 or 3. Thats the point.


Put all the 80 year olds and vulnerable in the Shelbourne, Westbury and Conrad hotel with a team of doctors and it will be cheaper than what we are doing.

Like a nursing home....

Listen back to newstalk tonight. A lady from nightengale care home..absolutely apoplectic (george hook fave word) at the HSE. Basic tone was theyre saying one thing in front of cameras and doing the opposite. We have gotten a glimpse behind the curtain with the contact tracing farce this week that was leaked. I felt terrible for this head nurse..HSE is a service run by bankers..and the government dont give two ****es about the elderly..the same "grey brigade" had to demonstrate on mass a few years ago just to get their fuel allowance.. how many primetime investigates have shown huge holes in hse practice leading to closure after closure of care homes to creche...

FintanMcluskey

rusty cole wrote: »

Listen back to newstalk tonight. A lady from nightengale care home..absolutely apoplectic (george hook fave word) at the HSE. Basic tone was theyre saying one thing in front of cameras and doing the opposite. We have gotten a glimpse behind the curtain with the contact tracing farce this week that was leaked. I felt terrible for this head nurse..HSE is a service run by bankers..and the government dont give two ****es about the elderly..the same "grey brigade" had to demonstrate on mass a few years ago just to get their fuel allowance.. how many primetime investigates have shown huge holes in hse practice leading to closure after closure of care homes to creche...

The greatest illusion the Irish media ever portrayed was that the Swedish authorities were irresponsible and the lack of restrictions on citizens came at a cost of thousands of lives.

The Irish response was just as careless, only difference the powers that be blamed the citizens, all the while removing their ability to socialise

TRANQUILLO

rusty cole wrote: »

Listen back to newstalk tonight. A lady from nightengale care home..absolutely apoplectic (george hook fave word) at the HSE. Basic tone was theyre saying one thing in front of cameras and doing the opposite. We have gotten a glimpse behind the curtain with the contact tracing farce this week that was leaked. I felt terrible for this head nurse..HSE is a service run by bankers..and the government dont give two ****es about the elderly..the same "grey brigade" had to demonstrate on mass a few years ago just to get their fuel allowance.. how many primetime investigates have shown huge holes in hse practice leading to closure after closure of care homes to creche...

Im apolitical . They are all cheeks on the same arse and it needs a good smacking.

Im 37. It was ****e when Mary Harney was in charge. It was ****e when Coghlan was in charge. ****e when Reilly was in charge. ****e when Varadkar was in charge. ****e when Harris was in charge. ****e when Donnelly was in charge.

Childrens hospital is a farce. Cervical check was a DISGRACE and people involved are still on the telly every night issuing diktats.

Track and trace app doesn't work.

We had to fly to China to get rubber gloves and masks but we have a fine big factory in Mayo that makes Botox.

Ireland.. ladies and gents.

All fur coat and no knickers.

TRANQUILLO

JimToken wrote: »

Like a nursing home....

Yeah but with Courvoisier

Happydays2020

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Pre social media we don't get ourselves into this mess.

You see it with certain other social justice movements that affect a minuscule proportion of people and they are blown up with hysteria and tantrums until they have to be legislated for.

In the 80's we would have said " there is a bad dose going around" and we'd have carried on . Im convinced that is how we would have acted.


I laugh at lads on here quoting IFR and CFR numbers and moralising to everyone from ivory towers.
Click on their username and look at their posting history pre-covid. They knew nothing about anything in this field.

I don't know if they'd talk like this face to face. Sometimes I wonder if the people who are replying to my posts are 16 years old.

If you are coming here for sage advice - Jesus wept.

PS - the IFR and CFR are much lower than what NPHET or George Lee are telling you plus the NPHET prediction of 100 - 120 in ICU next Saturday 31st is (thankfully) unlikely to be reached.

FintanMcluskey

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

We had to fly to China to get rubber gloves and masks but we have a fine big factory in Mayo that makes Botox. .

I agree with the rest of your post.

On this point, I shared your sentiment until recently, but after asking, it turns out the end use of Botox is primarily for spinal defects etc.

Women and men hanging on is not the primary use.

Those very pharmaceuticals, give Ireland some hope for the future.

Penfailed

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

The WHO definition.

...which is? I'm curious.

weldoninhio

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Was this ultimately his decision?

It was his decision to publicly browbeat them until they reopened.

dubdaymo

walus wrote: »

You are right, he is not the government. But could one explain to me how one man being out for months returns to nphet and overnight changes it’s advice from level 2 to level 5. What does he know that other 40 guys didn’t know that makes the advice so dramatically different?

His mind went under all the pressure and we're having to suffer the consequences.

For those kneetakers to NPHET your beloved Guru is on the "most watched programme on RTE" tomorrow - or so I've been told. I believe it's a light entertainment show so that should be a laugh all the way.

KennisWhale

Happydays2020 wrote: »

If you are coming here for sage advice - Jesus wept.

PS - the IFR and CFR are much lower than what NPHET or George Lee are telling you plus the NPHET prediction of 100 - 120 in ICU next Saturday 31st is (thankfully) unlikely to be reached.

As a result of level 3 measures too it has to be said. Level 5 was such a knee jerk from prodigal son, baby doomer Holohan, he looks really stupid already not letting level 3 data bed in for more than a day or two.

Zebra3

snowcat wrote: »

We had 2 people pulled out of the shannon yesterday. (They did not fall in) One dead one survived. They were not on the national news. But thats ok because they were not one of the Covid deaths. But that may be revised upwards if is found out they were covid positive.

Also, lot of pressure, especially in rural areas, to put suicides down as some other cause of death where possible.

Anyone who looks at our suicide figures and thinks that's the full picture is way off the mark.

I have to say to all involved on this thread. Well done..to pro and con posters. A discourse is a discourse and im convinced thats why we are indoors..out of pubs..cafes..clubs and anything else where ideas are exchanged and views are challenged..thats good..if this is the new forum then so what..shouty and abusive as at can be at times..at least its free and 109% unsensored...thats a good start..im going on the beer..enjoy your time whatever you do with it