Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

bush

So its up and down between level 3 and 5 until spring or summer. Not a hope they will go to level 2 before spring. Then we go back to level 3 next October. They are telling us to be good so we can have a nice turkey dinner for Christmas. Who gives a **** about about Christmas if your out of work for 9 months of the year?

weldoninhio

Penfailed wrote: »

I was responding to a claim that also didn't have facts to back it up.

Good to know the level you are debating from. Someone else made something up, I'll do the same. :rolleyes:

Jorge Limited Maze

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Translation let’s hope the virus keeps spreading and lots of people get very sick and die so my selfish desire to “open up” might be considered. Charming stuff but not unexpected from you.

Also if you listened to MM speech you would know that they are not hiding the fact that the plan is to continue a open up/close down cycle to keep the virus under some control, you talk about it like it’s not been discussed.

It also clear stated that letting the virus spread is absolutely not an option, it was dismissed like it was only for for the bin. Much more careful reasoning was given for not considering a zero covid approach than any daft notion of “herd immunity”.

Not a selfish desire, it’s for the greater good.
Pissing away the futures of the young and future generations because we are afraid of getting a bit sick is not a good legacy to leave behind.

If you actually spoke to most 80+ year olds, the last thing they’d want is their families future destroyed so they could live a little longer.

Penfailed

weldoninhio wrote: »

Good to know the level you are debating from. Someone else made something up, I'll do the same. :rolleyes:

It's never been a problem before in this thread. Here, have one of these back - :rolleyes:

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you actually spoke to most 80+ year olds, the last thing they’d want is their families future destroyed so they could live a little longer.

"Families future destroyed"...how so?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Not a selfish desire, it’s for the greater good.
Pissing away the futures of the young and future generations because we are afraid of getting a bit sick is not a good legacy to leave behind.

If you actually spoke to most 80+ year olds, the last thing they’d want is their families future destroyed so they could live a little longer.

“Pissing away futures” and “families future destroyed”..... the hyperbole has a hyperdrive today!

hynesie08

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Translation let’s hope the virus keeps spreading and lots of people get very sick and die so my selfish desire to “open up” might be considered. Charming stuff but not unexpected from you.

Also if you listened to MM speech you would know that they are not hiding the fact that the plan is to continue a open up/close down cycle to keep the virus under some control, you talk about it like it’s not been discussed.

It also clear stated that letting the virus spread is absolutely not an option, it was dismissed like it was only for for the bin.Much more careful reasoning was given for not considering a zero covid approach than any daft notion of “herd immunity”.

Selective hearing much nox? He called a zero covid plan "completely unrealistic."

Amazing how he said the same thing as people on here and your not dismissing him as an anti vac lunatic or whatever names you use that you think win you the discussion.....

Coybig_

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Translation let’s hope the virus keeps spreading and lots of people get very sick and die so my selfish desire to “open up” might be considered. Charming stuff but not unexpected from you.

Also if you listened to MM speech you would know that they are not hiding the fact that the plan is to continue a open up/close down cycle to keep the virus under some control, you talk about it like it’s not been discussed.

It also clear stated that letting the virus spread is absolutely not an option, it was dismissed like it was only for for the bin. Much more careful reasoning was given for not considering a zero covid approach than any daft notion of “herd immunity”.

Herd immunity is the eventual goal of every strategy, apart from zero covid, including strategies with a vaccine. You havent the slightest notion of what you are talking about.

hynesie08

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Pissing away futures, the hyperbole has a hyperdrive today!

I know you have an issue with critical thinking, but if you are a first year college student in ireland, after the amount of ****wittery that's gone on with the LC, Colleges and accommodation, and the fact that housing is going to become even more unattainable..... Why the jaysus wouldn't you get the first plane out of here with the ink on your degree still wet?

growleaves

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

“Pissing away futures” and “families future destroyed”..... the hyperbole has a hyperdrive today!

Hyperbole? The economy is being placed into a deep freeze for the second time this year. Banks will be angling for re-possessions unless there is another mortgage freeze. Jobs will be hard/impossible to get for years. This is just what is happening.

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

"Families future destroyed"...how so?

Losing jobs, recession, evictions, losing homes, mental health, relationships falling apart etc etc etc

It’s already happening.

hynesie08

hynesie08 wrote: »

Selective hearing much nox? He called a zero covid plan "completely unrealistic."

Amazing how he said the same thing as people on here and your not dismissing him as an anti vac lunatic or whatever names you use that you think win you the discussion.....

Listen again he might have said its not realistic but he had no respect whatsoever for the "herd immunity" suggestion loved by many on here.

Coybig_ wrote: »

Herd immunity is the eventual goal of every strategy, apart from zero covid, including strategies with a vaccine. You havent the slightest notion of what you are talking about.

Herd immunity is the goal with a vaccine, it is unachievable without a vaccine and any attempt would be "unethical" in the words of the WHO.

hynesie08 wrote: »

I know you have an issue with critical thinking, but if you are a first year college student in ireland, after the amount of ****wittery that's gone on with the LC, Colleges and accommodation, and the fact that housing is going to become even more unattainable..... Why the jaysus wouldn't you get the first plane out of here with the ink on your degree still wet?

Things were far worse for a college student or college graduate when thing went bust around 2008 and futures weren't destroyed. They will be a year or two behind in their career etc like many of us who were graduates in 2008, maybe have to spend a few more years doing a post grad or whatever but their futures destroyed? absolute scaremongering hyperbole.

As for leaving Ireland, most people dont want to. Loads of people left in 2008 etc but I never entertained the idea nor did most of my group of friends. I'd rather be in Ireland regardless of the situation.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Hyperbole? The economy is being placed into a deep freeze for the second time this year. Banks will be angling for re-possessions unless there is another mortgage freeze. Jobs will be hard/impossible to get for years. This is just what is happening.

How people cannot see this is beyond me.
I know a person that lost everything back in 08. Lost her job, couldn’t pay mortgage, house in negative equity, relationship fell apart.

Her life was destroyed and still pretty much is. No lending institute will touch her to this day, even for a small personal loan.

Too many shielded people on here that have clearly never suffered.

They think austerity is a few extra quid in taxes.

Captain_Crash

Penfailed wrote: »

That's your understanding. You don't actually know for sure though. How about letting the actual experts make the call based on ALL the information.

You are right that we don’t know what data NPHET used to come to the conclusion that they did! But we do know what the predictions they have made are as they are outlined in the letter sent to government last week.

Several people have reverse calculated these predictions, and concluded that the only way they could have got the numbers they did was if they used to old modelling, which our very own government stated many times as far back as the summer was grossly inaccurate!

In using this modelling, we can deduce they did not include t-cell immunity which makes the predictions they have grossly inaccurate at best, negligent at worst! It’s akin to doing a maths test in primary school and giving your answer but not showing your work!

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

How people cannot see this is beyond me.
I know a person that lost everything back in 08. Lost her job, couldn’t pay mortgage, house in negative equity, relationship fell apart.

Her life was destroyed and still pretty much is. No lending institute will touch her to this day, even for a small personal loan.

Too many shielded people on here that have clearly never suffered.

They think austerity is a few extra quid in taxes.

Alot of 08 issues was brought on by people borrowing money they couldn't afford. Some genuine sad cases there but majority was the people fault.

growleaves

Computer Models Aren’t Science

growleaves

average_runner wrote: »

Alot of 08 issues was brought on by people borrowing money they couldn't afford. Some genuine sad cases there but majority was the people fault.

Graduates facing chronic unemployment from 2008-2012 would be instances of people having issues sans debt.

In any case no one can afford to borrow money if the economy is going to grind to a halt every couple of years. Or, at the moment, every couple of months.

darconio

average_runner wrote: »

Alot of 08 issues was brought on by people borrowing money they couldn't afford. Some genuine sad cases there but majority was the people fault.

2020, and years to come issues, instead are caused by poor decisions made by the government

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Losing jobs, recession, evictions, losing homes, mental health, relationships falling apart etc etc etc

It’s already happening.

Boom and bust. It's the way it was and it's the way it will be.

robfowler78

Penfailed wrote: »

Boom and bust. It's the way it was and it's the way it will be.

So is living and dying......

growleaves

Penfailed wrote: »

Boom and bust. It's the way it was and it's the way it will be.

I think you're mistaken here even though you're not technically wrong.

There has always been boom and bust cycles yes but two extreme busts in twelve years is not historically normal. The first due to bank malfeasance and the second due to an artificial economic stoppage as directed by government policy.

If this is to be considered (the 'new') normal then people would need to change their attitudes entirely, i.e. there ought to be much more suspicion of lending in general if we are saying that any kind of general financial stability is no longer to be expected.

bloopy

Deleted User wrote: »

Is this suggesting that we don’t care about deaths as long as hospitals are not over run?

Up until about two weeks ago, the narrative was about the amount of deaths which were going to be apocalyptic. When the deaths did not follow the rise in cases, the narrative changed to one about concern for hospitals.
Took about two days to happen and was very interesting to watch.

FintanMcluskey

Captain_Crash wrote: »

You are right that we don’t know what data NPHET used to come to the conclusion that they did! But we do know what the predictions they have made are as they are outlined in the letter sent to government last week.

Several people have reverse calculated these predictions, and concluded that the only way they could have got the numbers they did was if they used to old modelling, which our very own government stated many times as far back as the summer was grossly inaccurate!

In using this modelling, we can deduce they did not include t-cell immunity which makes the predictions they have grossly inaccurate at best, negligent at worst! It’s akin to doing a maths test in primary school and giving your answer but not showing your work!

Read an article in the Irish times that said most politicians are not aware of what metrics NPHET are using.

Essentially it’s level 5 or die. No debate

Penfailed

Captain_Crash wrote: »

You are right that we don’t know what data NPHET used to come to the conclusion that they did! But we do know what the predictions they have made are as they are outlined in the letter sent to government last week.

Several people have reverse calculated these predictions, and concluded that the only way they could have got the numbers they did was if they used to old modelling, which our very own government stated many times as far back as the summer was grossly inaccurate!

In using this modelling, we can deduce they did not include t-cell immunity which makes the predictions they have grossly inaccurate at best, negligent at worst! It’s akin to doing a maths test in primary school and giving your answer but not showing your work!

Do you think that the government are blindly following inaccurate predictions? Surely if people on here are doing it, they've also done it? Don't you think that they have much more information to hand than any of us?

FintanMcluskey

average_runner wrote: »

Alot of 08 issues was brought on by people borrowing money they couldn't afford. Some genuine sad cases there but majority was the people fault.

No.

It was banks lending money they couldn’t afford to, subsequently having to be subsidised by the Irish taxpayer for the next few decades.

All the while, yet again, the idiots were convinced it was the people’s fault.

And that won’t be the last crisis the people will be held accountable for in this country

The people are the ones paying for it

SAMTALK

bloopy wrote: »

Up until about two weeks ago, the narrative was about the amount of deaths which were going to be apocalyptic. When the deaths did not follow the rise in cases, the narrative changed to one about concern for hospitals.
Took about two days to happen and was very interesting to watch.

I think you'll find the overrun on the health service was always a concern

Penfailed

growleaves wrote: »

There has always been boom and bust cycles yes but two extreme busts in twelve years is not historically normal. The first due to bank malfeasance and the second due to an artificial economic stoppage as directed by government policy.

This is a worldwide phenomenon. Economies are contracting all over the shop due to government policies.

robfowler78

Penfailed wrote: »

Do you think that the government are blindly following inaccurate predictions? Surely if people on here are doing it, they've also done it? Don't you think that they have much more information to hand than any of us?

I think part of the problem is alot of the population take no notice of hospital numbers of daily deaths or how many a year are killed by different diseases / viruses etc in any normal year. This year and with the pandemic people are paying attention but only to the numbers been given there is no context or comparison. So when you hear big numbers like 1500 cases we all panic.

This pandemic is real its world wide. In the beginning we didn't know much about it. Now we do it isn't the killer it was made out to be and we havnt adjusted our strategies to meet that change.

Its still dangerous and still can overwhelem hospitals but total lockdown is not the answer

growleaves

Penfailed wrote: »

This is a worldwide phenomenon. Economies are contracting all over the shop due to government policies.

Yes I know. Governments are following the same policies the world over.

In the case of the 27 EU countries they have been highly co-ordinated since the 1990s. It isn't a 'conspiracy', its just their policy to act in concert to a considerable extent.

bloopy

SAMTALK wrote: »

I think you'll find the overrun on the health service was always a concern

Online nobody gave a **** about the hospitals until the deaths failed to materialise.