Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Penfailed

santana75 wrote: »

The lockdown approach does not seem to be working. At some stage the powers that be will have to admit this and try another approach.

It worked when we locked down previously. The problem was, we opened up again. The other problem was, we had to open up again. This lockdown will work too...if people follow the rules. The problem will occur when we open up again, which has got to happen regardless. It's a seemingly endless cycle...

What do you suggest as an alternative approach?

Rrrrrr2

Penfailed wrote: »

It worked when we locked down previously. The problem was, we opened up again. The other problem was, we had to open up again. This lockdown will work too...if people follow the rules. The problem will occur when we open up again, which has got to happen regardless. It's a seemingly endless cycle...

What do you suggest as an alternative approach?

And does that approach sound logical or sustainable to you?

darconio

Penfailed wrote: »

It worked when we locked down previously. The problem was, we opened up again. The other problem was, we had to open up again. This lockdown will work too...if people follow the rules. The problem will occur when we open up again, which has got to happen regardless. It's a seemingly endless cycle...

What do you suggest as an alternative approach?

Don't lockdown?

You refer to "the problem": what is/was the problem?
0 death today?
ICU at normal capacity?

hynesie08

fin12 wrote: »

Another 200,000 will be out of work with this level 5.

Yeah, but what's important is that *checks notes* no one died today....

charlie14

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

And does that approach sound logical or sustainable to you?

How come every time that question is asked here it just gets a question.
Surely people who are bemoaning everything under the sun have an actual answer to the question

PTH2009

bet the government/NPHET will still have there Xmas piss up

MadYaker

darconio wrote: »

Don't lockdown?

You refer to "the problem": what is/was the problem?
0 death today?
ICU at normal capacity?

I honestly don't believe people can be this thick. The number of people getting infected is proportional to the number of people ending up in hospital. That means if one increases the other increases. This has literally been happening in front of our eyes over the last few weeks. We can't simply allow the virus to spread and spread through the population unhindered until the hospitals are full and people die because they can't be seen by a doctor or nurse. If that happens it won't just be covid patients dying. Car crashes, heart attacks etc all these require treatment every day.

You think that more and more people can just keep getting infected and the number of people requiring hospital beds will just level off for some magical reason? Does that sound logical to you?

Rrrrrr2

charlie14 wrote: »

How come every time that question is asked here it just gets a question.
Surely people who are bemoaning everything under the sun have an actual answer to the question

Because I don't advocate any of these measures and don't accept they'll have any benefit for frequently repeated reasons here.
You don't lockdown businesses and places where there isn't C-19 issues- anything thing is pointless reactionary irrationality but that seems to be the flavour of the year and beyond.

Zebra3

fin12 wrote: »

Another 200,000 will be out of work with this level 5.

Irish Times had a figure of 115,000 this morning.

_Kaiser_

Zebra3 wrote: »

Irish Times had a figure of 115,000 this morning.

200k mentioned on the 6.1

_Kaiser_

It's official

October 19 2020 07:21 PM
The Cabinet has signed off on a Level 5 lockdown for the next six weeks.
The Taoiseach and his ministers met today to discuss the dramatic introduction of the most severe Covid-19 restrictions.

The three coalition party leaders and their senior ministers met today to discuss introducing new restrictions ahead of today's Cabinet meeting.

After almost three hours of discussions they have agreed to another national lockdown.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/cabinet-accepts-level-5-lockdown-for-six-weeks-39641904.html

Captain_Crash

charlie14 wrote: »

it would be best if we just stuck to establish facts.

I agree!

Fact: resistance of infection fits the medical definition of immunity

Fact: despite 780M estimated worldwide cases and 40M confirmed worldwide cases, there is less than 50 (maybe even less than 30) confirmed reinfections. Hence it being widely disregarded as a potential issue. That position may change of course should reinfections sky rocket. But there are no signs that will happen

GocRh

JeffKenna wrote: »

Are the 56 who got it classed as community transmission or travel?

2% of daily cases are related to travel according to the HPSC. That's at least 20 cases a day cases being classified as travel.
I'd imagine some of the cases on this 56 people cluster were classified as community, given that a close contact went to a party and infected more people. Not all infections were direct from the person that actually traveled.

You can't count all 56 as travel related, you need to stop once it's a second hand transmission, or else every single case would be travel related as covid did not originate in Ireland.

bush

I'm resigned to the fact I won't be back to work until the spring. I think it's better to just accept it. What a joke.

Zebra3

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's official



https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/cabinet-accepts-level-5-lockdown-for-six-weeks-39641904.html

We're all in this together announced government ministers and NPHET officials on their 100k+ salaries.

hynesie08

So, I can't sit outside a cafe with a friend and have a coffee, but I can meet a friend, get a takeaway coffee and sit on a wall with them drinking it........

The only difference is in the second scenario, someone is out of work.

Genius.

pjohnson

hynesie08 wrote: »

So, I can't sit outside a cafe with a friend and have a coffee, but I can meet a friend, get a takeaway coffee and sit on a wall with them drinking it........

The only difference is in the second scenario, someone is out of work.

Genius.

Where do you get the takeaway coffee?

Penfailed

normanoffside wrote: »

Less than 3% of our public hospital beds are occupied by patients with Covid though. How is this an emergency?

The figure you should be looking at is how many free beds there are, not how many are occupied by Covid patients. The next figure you need to look at is how rapidly the beds are filling up. I don't have those figures but the people making the rules do.
The government don't shut down an economy for the sake of it. This place appears to be full of scientists, economists, epidemiologists and soothsayers. Yet no one has the full picture that the government and their advisors do. Personally, I'd like the government to be a bit more transparent when laying the restrictions on everyone. That's unlikely though.

darconio

MadYaker wrote: »

I honestly don't believe people can be this thick. The number of people getting infected is proportional to the number of people ending up in hospital. That means if one increases the other increases. This has literally been happening in front of our eyes over the last few weeks. We can't simply allow the virus to spread and spread through the population unhindered until the hospitals are full and people die because they can't be seen by a doctor or nurse. If that happens it won't just be covid patients dying. Car crashes, heart attacks etc all these require treatment every day.

You think that more and more people can just keep getting infected and the number of people requiring hospital beds will just level off for some magical reason? Does that sound logical to you?

Again you don't see that while the number of infected increased exponentially, the number of death WITH covid, and the number of hospitalization remained constant? Don't you think the situation is a bit different from March? Yes but surely let's add more misery to the whole nation and lock everything for 6 weeks, it will definitely defeat the deadly virus, we will wake up on the 1st of December refreshed and ready to get on with our lives like nothing happened.

hynesie08

pjohnson wrote: »

Where do you get the takeaway coffee?

Your right, I can get takeaway pints but not coffee.......

charlie14

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Because I don't advocate any of these measures and don't accept they'll have any benefit for frequently repeated reasons here.
You don't lockdown businesses and places where there isn't C-19 issues- anything thing is pointless reactionary irrationality but that seems to be the flavour of the year and beyond.

That has nothing to do with the question you were asked, and indeed not just you, but all those that are basically anti everything.


The question was what was your alternative.

MadYaker

darconio wrote: »

Again you don't see that while the number of infected increased exponentially, the number of death WITH covid, and the number of hospitalization remained constant? Don't you think the situation is a bit different from March? Yes but surely let's add more misery to the whole nation and lock everything for 6 weeks, it will definitely defeat the deadly virus, we will wake up on the 1st of December refreshed and ready to get on with our lives like nothing happened.

The number of people in hospital is not remaining constant it is increasing all the time. https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid-19-daily-operations-update-2000-18-october-2020.pdf

The rest of your post is nonsense.

Zardoz

Penfailed wrote: »

The figure you should be looking at is how many free beds there are, not how many are occupied by Covid patients. The next figure you need to look at is how rapidly the beds are filling up. I don't have those figures but the people making the rules do.
The government don't shut down an economy for the sake of it.

Why didn't they create extra ICU beds ?
They had 7 months to plan for this and they did nothing .
30 extra ICU beds is all they could muster, Sweden doubled their capacity in 3 weeks.
Its shambolic.

pjohnson

hynesie08 wrote: »

Your right, I can get takeaway pints but not coffee.......

Right. You've abandoned making any sense. Your "scenarios" made no sense.

Captain_Crash

Penfailed wrote: »

The figure you should be looking at is how many free beds there are, not how many are occupied by Covid patients. The next figure you need to look at is how rapidly the beds are filling up. I don't have those figures but the people making the rules do.
The government don't shut down an economy for the sake of it. This place appears to be full of scientists, economists, epidemiologists and soothsayers. Yet no one has the full picture that the government and their advisors do. Personally, I'd like the government to be a bit more transparent when laying the restrictions on everyone. That's unlikely though.

Everything I’ve read and heard re: hospital admissions and icu admissions is that they are on par with previous years. But this is just Twitter snippets from journos and “doctors” etc so can’t vouch for it! I will say this tho... if NPHET have data showing this year to be an alarmingly higher rate than before, in fairly certain they would have leaked it, and that hasn’t happened!

hynesie08

pjohnson wrote: »

Right. You've abandoned making any sense.

What parts confusing you? Under the proposed legislation, I can meet someone outside.... I can get food and drink to takeaway, but I can't sit outside the pub/cafe and eat it...... How does that make sense?

Micky 32

ShyMets wrote: »

You'll find most of our pro lockdown friends have nice safe jobs that they can do from home.

No worrying about paying the mortgage, rent or bills and no empathy for those in that situation.

And don't try to rise this issue. You'll just be accused of being a granny killer

...and i bet they’ll be horrified when they read this post that i WILL be breaking one rule i adhered to back in March. I will be visiting my partner of nearly 10 years who lives alone that lives 10 km away from me.

Penfailed

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

It's Level 5 but not Level 5.

Meat Plants can stay open.
Schools stay open.
Ports still open.
Horse Racing allowed to carry on behind closed doors
Manufacturing and Construction still allowed.

Guess Level 5 is really Level 5+Big Business...

Now you know who FF/FG listened to

Where did it say in the level five plan that those places would close? As far as I can see, it didn't.

pjohnson

hynesie08 wrote: »

What parts confusing you? Under the proposed legislation, I can meet someone outside.... I can get food and drink to takeaway, but I can't sit outside the pub/cafe and eat it...... How does that make sense?

It obbiously doesn't.

But how do you figure anyone is unemployed in the second scenario? Unless you sit on one of the workers and use them as a chair then you still need to have the same staff to make your takeaway food and drink. You just eat it in a different location.

funnydoggy

Gonna be a sad Christmas and for many, many people, a f*cking dark Christmas.