Schools closed until February? (part 3)

average_runner

combat14 wrote: »

almost 2000 cases north and south on island..

and winter hasn't even started properly yet ..

it has to be the schools we were grand all summer.......

Can you back that up?

Number of clusters in school are small.

The reason for the increase is because people are not doing the basis

Smacruairi

average_runner wrote: »

Can you back that up?

Number of clusters in school are small.

The reason for the increase is because people are not doing the basis

So we have the highest number of cases since the first peak, with most social outlets closed, a massive campaign for mask wearing (which was deemed by the govt of the time to be not necessary!) and the schools open fully and you still think it's "people are not doing things right". Do you think maybe, just maybe, you might be wrong on this one? I mean if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck..

People were socialising in parks having cans, just like varadkar, over the summer, and it was not as high as it is now.

average_runner

Smacruairi wrote: »

So we have the highest number of cases since the first peak, with most social outlets closed, a massive campaign for mask wearing (which was deemed by the govt of the time to be not necessary!) and the schools open fully and you still think it's "people are not doing things right". Do you think maybe, just maybe, you might be wrong on this one? I mean if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck..



People were socialising in parks having cans, just like varadkar, over the summer, and it was not as high as it is now.

Show me the numbers in schools to back that theory?

Maybe the increase is to do with people coming back from holidays?

Pubs were opened a few weeks before increase started , why not blame that?

Outside socialising is a very low risk of spreading it, it's the indoor socialising that's an issue

appledrop

Smacruairi wrote: »

The level 3.5 restrictions have slowed the increase, not stopped it, that's what I'm worried about. Restrictions are meant to reduce numbers, that's not happening.

Its not happening because schools are open. I'll use my circumstances as an example.

Back in March/April when lockdown in place only people I saw was in my household, outside chat to neighbour + dropping up shopping to parents(left on doorstep)on weekly basis.

Now the numbers are as bad as Mar/Apr I still only see my own household except when I go to work in a building with 600 people.

I'm one of hundreds of thousands mixing this way + we are wonder why numbers have gone sky high.

I can't reduce my contacts in half in work + I'm sick on NPHET waffling on about ot when they refuse to address school issue.

Close the schools for two weeks at midterm + keep strict restrictions + I bet you numbers will drop!

Smacruairi

average_runner wrote: »

Show me the numbers in schools to back that theory?

Maybe the increase is to do with people coming back from holidays?

Pubs were opened a few weeks before increase started , why not blame that?

Outside socialising is a very low risk of spreading it, it's the indoor socialising that's an issue

So your rebuttal is "maybe" and "what about". Indoor socialising is appalling I agree, defo should look at not having anywhere with more than 10 people per 40m2 right? Especially for longer than 30mins.

niamh247

average_runner wrote: »

Can you back that up?

Number of clusters in school are small.

The reason for the increase is because people are not doing the basis

Clusters?? How can asymptomatic transmission create clusters? Schools are THE exchange points. This government doesn't want anyone point at schools. School staff are scared to talk about it.

Face it. The emperor has no cloths. Someone would talk about it.

average_runner

Smacruairi wrote: »

So your rebuttal is "maybe" and "what about". Indoor socialising is appalling I agree, defo should look at not having anywhere with more than 10 people per 40m2 right? Especially for longer than 30mins.

Well you have no numbers to prove the point you are making. Come on back up your statement with the numbers from the schools?

Smacruairi

average_runner wrote: »

Well you have no numbers to prove the point you are making. Come on back up your statement with the numbers from the schools?

Well we can start with 12 virus clusters in the last week in schools. But I really don't think you want to hear any stats. I think the curve in the screenshot is quite clear. Schools start back last week in August and look what happens.

appledrop

average_runner wrote: »

Well you have no numbers to prove the point you are making. Come on back up your statement with the numbers from the schools?

I'll give you numbers. 770 students tested positive in University in UK + only 78 had symptoms.

Are you getting the message now? Young people/ young adults much more likely to be asymptomatic so getting it + spreading it in community unknown to them so its showing up say in other adults in household then everyone wondering why community transmission is going up but no one can figure out where its coming from.

Anyone working in school will tell you is obvious how its spreading.

average_runner

appledrop wrote: »

I'll give you numbers. 770 students tested positive in University in UK + only 78 had symptoms.

Are you getting the message now? Young people/ young adults much more likely to be asymptomatic so getting it + spreading it in community unknown to them so its showing up say in other adults in household then everyone wondering why community transmission is going up but no one can figure out where its coming from.

Anyone working in school will tell you is obvious how its spreading.

Last time I check this was Ireland and universities are not schools.

Considering uk universities are having covid parties, your point is useless

niamh247

average_runner wrote: »

Last time I check this was Ireland and universities are not schools.

Considering uk universities are having covid parties, your point is useless

You completely missed the point about something called asymptomatic transmission which doesn't require having parties.

average_runner

niamh247 wrote: »

You completely missed the point about something called asymptomatic transmission which doesn't require having parties.

So you have proof kids are doing this? Please show it

Smacruairi

average_runner wrote: »

Last time I check this was Ireland and universities are not schools.

Considering uk universities are having covid parties, your point is useless

So you just dismiss the point about asymptomatic spread,and dismiss another country's stats for.. Reasons? Universities aren't schools, but seeing as how an 18yr old soreads as well as a 15yr old I think it's a very relevant point to make.

Covid parties,are these officially organised? What percentage of universities are hosting them and what percentage of students in attendance, stats please, to use your parlance.

You completely ignored my screenshot of the covid curve since schools started back. Could you please address why you think schools don't correspond to the massive increase.

average_runner

Smacruairi wrote: »

So you just dismiss the point about asymptomatic spread,and dismiss another country's stats for.. Reasons? Universities aren't schools, but seeing as how an 18yr old soreads as well as a 15yr old I think it's a very relevant point to make.

Covid parties,are these officially organised? What percentage of universities are hosting them and what percentage of students in attendance, stats please, to use your parlance

Show me your proof for kids spreading it? Sweden already said kids transmission is very low and unlikely

niamh247

average_runner wrote: »

So you have proof kids are doing this? Please show it

Proof: Unexplained source for infections.
Now, could you show the proof that there is no asymptomatic transmission in schools?

downthemiddle

average_runner wrote: »

Show me the numbers in schools to back that theory?

Maybe the increase is to do with people coming back from holidays?

Pubs were opened a few weeks before increase started , why not blame that?

Outside socialising is a very low risk of spreading it, it's the indoor socialising that's an issue

I'll tell you a story about how this is being handled by the HSE.
A parent died with Covid. Their family attend two different primary schools. The children were tested and a child in each school tested positive. They had not been in school for 48 hrs before the test so in the eyes of the HSE no further action was required.
The guidelines issued to schools clearly state that the onus is on the HSE to contact the schools if there is a case. One of the principals made contact with the HSE and the whole class was then deemed to be close contacts and are at home awaiting testing. The other school has heard nothing from the HSE.
I have heard on a number of occasions that the HSE are only taking action when the schools contact them. If the schools follow the guidelines and wait for the HSE to make contact then they are left waiting.

Smacruairi

average_runner wrote: »

Show me your proof for kids spreading it? Sweden already said kids transmission is very low and unlikely

Well anytime I have pointed to something you've moved to something else, is there a point? We gave you clusters in schools, asymptomatic case study, overall national stats since September. I mean, your clearly don't have an open mind at all.

average_runner

niamh247 wrote: »

Proof: Unexplained source for infections.
Now, could you show the proof that there is no asymptomatic transmission in schools?

I ain't making the accusation. You got to back it with evidence which you haven't

average_runner

Smacruairi wrote: »

Well anytime I have pointed to something you've moved to something else, is there a point? We gave you clusters in schools, asymptomatic case study, overall national stats since September. I mean, your clearly don't have an open mind at all.

You gave me theories and very little number of clusters in Irish schools. The experts in Sweden disagree with you and have kept schools open.

Smacruairi

average_runner wrote: »

You gave me theories and very little number of clusters in Irish schools. The experts in Sweden disagree with you and have kept schools open.

What experts? The ones that have Sweden with one of the highest death rates from covid in Europe? Where have they proved kids up to 18 don't spread the disease?

Can your explain why the curve is so big since schools returned despite increasing restrictions? And no theories about "University covid parties" please.

combat14

just told 1 second level teacher In our building has tested positive for covid .. HSE announced no close contacts with other teachers (no tests for other teachers) and only 2 students to be tested.. not sure how that is possible as I'm sure teacher would have been in staff room multiple times with no mask on .. and other students in his/her multiple class mixing on corridors again with no masks during lunch time ..

average_runner

Smacruairi wrote: »

What experts? The ones that have Sweden with one of the highest death rates from covid in Europe? Where have they proved kids up to 18 don't spread the disease?

Can your explain why the curve is so big since schools returned despite increasing restrictions? And no theories about "University covid parties" please.

As I said, many return from hols and pubs were open before the curve started. Also most out door social get togethers have moved indoor.

Sweden deaths were mainly nursing homes , they messed up there like we did sadly

Smacruairi

average_runner wrote: »

As I said, many return from hols and pubs were open before the curve started. Also most out door social get togethers have moved indoor.

Sweden deaths were mainly nursing homes , they messed up there like we did sadly

That's your own theory. Please show me stats of people coming home from holidays to drive transmission. And if it were a real cause for concern they would have closed the airports and banned travel, which they haven't. Pubs were open under strict restrictions, and again where are the stats to link it to pubs, I think I saw a figure of one cluster, so again please link me to those figures, unless you're working off a theory yourself and guessing about things moving indoors.

What makes more sense, numbers going up when schools return and you start cramming 1000ppl in one location against all health guidelines, or stats which had been on the floor all summer suddenly exploding owing to an unspecific parties, and people coming home from holidays when practically everyone stayed home for staycations? Come on, use your common sense.

Icyseanfitz

combat14 wrote: »

just told 1 second level teacher In our building has tested positive for covid .. HSE announced no close contacts with other teachers (no tests for other teachers) and only 2 students to be tested.. not sure how that is possible as I'm sure teacher would have been in staff room multiple times with no mask on .. and other students in his/her multiple class mixing on corridors again with no masks during lunch time ..

You have the answer as to why schools appear somewhat okay, well that and the asymptomatic nature of covid in kids.

Galwayguy35

Only way to know for sure if its the schools causing the rise is to shut them for a few weeks.

Smacruairi

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Only way to know for sure if its the schools causing the rise is to shut them for a few weeks.

That might prove a point about numbers, but really they should be looking at moving to half in half out. Makes it easier to contact trace, increases ventilation, social distancing, staff are available for more cover, and it is training for a full remote service should it be necessary.

I really can't understand why it's not on the table as an option.

ginoginelli

average_runner wrote: »

Show me the numbers in schools to back that theory?

Maybe the increase is to do with people coming back from holidays?

Pubs were opened a few weeks before increase started , why not blame that?

Outside socialising is a very low risk of spreading it, it's the indoor socialising that's an issue

Its anywhere indoors over a prolonged period. Pubs, schools or households, young or old, the virus doesnt discriminate who it infects. If people aren't wearing masks, if there is not adequate ventilation, if people are talking, singing, socializing etc, the virus will spread like wildfire.

We knew this since the early studies back in march out of Korea and China.

Mrsmum

Regarding this asymptomatic transmission in schools, I've been trying to think it through logically. I said last week that a student in my son's school testing positive. My son sits with him for a class but was not considered a close contact. So anyway all those considered to be close contacts fortunately in the end tested negative. But going by the English university example my son for example could be asymptomatic and so therefore even though we are all feeling fine so could our whole family be asymptomatic. So I'm thinking of all the other cases of Covid in other schools, considering how contagious we all believe the virus to be, why are most close contacts testing negative rather than positive. Is it that the wrong people are considered close contacts and if say the whole class was tested that you would find many other secret infections ? It seems that far greater testing is needed to reveal the true picture be that pro or anti schools staying open.

Smacruairi

Mrsmum wrote: »

Regarding this asymptomatic transmission in schools, I've been trying to think it through logically. I said last week that a student in my son's school testing positive. My son sits with him for a class but was not considered a close contact. So anyway all those considered to be close contacts fortunately in the end tested negative. But going by the English university example my son for example could be asymptomatic and so therefore even though we are all feeling fine so could our whole family be asymptomatic. So I'm thinking of all the other cases of Covid in other schools, considering how contagious we all believe the virus to be, why are most close contacts testing negative rather than positive. Is it that the wrong people are considered close contacts and if say the whole class was tested that you would find many other secret infections ? It seems that far greater testing is needed to reveal the true picture be that pro or anti schools staying open.

Yup, but they're actively not testing everyone in the room. Probably for the man power reasons, unfortunately the cost too, but you can't help but think that there is a political reason also. I'm not believer in conspiracy theories as all it takes is one lad on a night out to rumble them, but there seems to be a desire not to generate any data on purpose

downthemiddle

Can anyone explain to me why a student of 19 years of age is not considered a close contact if they are sitting 1 metre from an infected student but an Irish soccer international sitting 1.9 metres from a positive case is?